Why aren’t all big-money ballers able to pile up massive stacks of Benjamins? How come some average Joe earners can build significant wealth? On today’s special roundtable episode, we dive into a blog post listing the top six reasons people who make big money can’t save. One of the Top 100-rated financial planners by Investopedia in 2023, Elaine King, joined us. She’s not alone, though. We also feature the creator of the award-winning blog Afford Anything, Paula Pant, and our own resident CFP, OG.
In the second half of the conversation, sponsored by DepositAccounts.com, we’ll explore the actual benefits of relocating to save money.
Stick around for our year-long trivia competition inspired by our special guest, Elaine King’s, home country of Peru.
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Our Topic: A Few Word Description
https://bankeronfire.com/dont-get-rich (Banker on Fire)
During our conversation you’ll hear us mention:
- Changing the way you talk about how much you earn instead of how much you keep.
- Importance of curating your information sources and your influences.
- Making more than you spend.
- Paying attention to your cash flow.
- Avoiding lifestyle creep.
- Increasing your savings over time.
- Deferring spending.
- Aim to save/invest at least 20% of income.
- Importance of creating a spending plan ahead of time.
- Spending all cash lifestyle when necessary.
- Accumulating assets rather than spending everything.
- Taking advantage of geographic arbitrage.
- Does moving for a higher salary always make sense?
- Becoming an “accidental landlord.”
- Hidden costs of moving abroad.
- Choosing where you live based on purpose.
Our Contributors
A big thanks to our contributors! You can check out more links for our guests below.
Elaine King
Another thanks to Elaine King for joining our contributors this week! Learn more about Elaine and her financial planning practice by visiting Family Financial Planning | Wealth Management.
Paula Pant
Check Out Paula’s site and amazing podcast: AffordAnything.com
Follow Paula on Twitter: @AffordAnything
OG
For more on OG and his firm’s page, click here.
Doug’s Game Show Trivia
- How many metric tons of gold did Peru produce in 2022?
DepositAccounts
Thanks to DepositAccounts.com for sponsoring Stacking Benjamins. DepositsAccounts.com is the #1 place to go when you’re looking to see if your rate is the BEST rate on savings, CDs, money markets, and even checking accounts! Check out ALL of the rates ranked from best to worst (and see the national averages) at DepositAccounts.com.
Join Us on Monday!
Tune in on Monday when we’re diving into the history of money and banks with renowned banker and scholar, and currently the executive deputy chairman of the board of Prada, Paolo Zannoni.
Miss our last show? Check it out here: Should You Create a “Board of Directors”? An Open AI/Chat GPT Case Study (SB1527).
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] bit: My plan is sound mathematically sound. It cannot fail. It’s perfect. Three months from now, I will be worth $50,000 independent for life. [00:00:21] Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement on the YouTube machine. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:00:37] Doug: I am Joe’s moms neighbor. Doug. What are the top six reasons that high earning people don’t get rich? Hint, their first mistake is not listening to Stacking Benjamins duh. Here to join the conversation is the founder of Family and Money Matters, CFP, Elaine King. Then someone whose mission it is to help you live richly regardless of income. [00:00:58] Doug: It’s Paula Pant. And finally a guy who’s here to help you straighten out those mistakes. It’s our own resident, CFP og, but that’s not all. Halfway through the show, I’ll share my weighty trivia question and now a guy who’s gotta be in his golden years. By now, it’s Joe. Oh, Saul. See? Hi. [00:01:21] Joe: Should have seen that coming, Doug. [00:01:22] Joe: Hey everybody. Happy Friday. So happy you’re celebrating it with us. Sit back and relax because. We’re about to have an hour of financial fun. Doug, how are you doing this? Uh, pre-end recording. Lovely Joe. Feeling just delightful at the moment. Lovely. How about, how about you? I’m, I’m feeling fantastic. You know why I’m feeling fantastic, Doug. [00:01:42] Joe: I don’t, Joe. Well, it’s because this episode’s brought to you by State Farm. That’s why [00:01:45] Doug: I knew it. [00:01:46] Joe: If you’re a small business owner, it isn’t just your business Doug, it’s your life. Whatever your business might be, you want someone who understands, and that’s where State Farm Small Business Insurance comes in. [00:01:55] Joe: State Farm agents are small business owners too, and help. You, excuse me. Whoa. And know what it takes to help you personalize your policies for your small businesses like a good neighbor. State Farm. Is there, talk to your local agent today. Maybe I should talk to them about learning how to read that. I don’t, I don’t know. [00:02:11] Joe: Don’t know why. Let’s say hello to our friends that are here. First of all, the gentleman across the cart table from me. Mr. OG is back. How are you, my friend? Happy [00:02:19] OG: day. Fantastic. [00:02:21] Joe: Thank you [00:02:21] OG: for asking. [00:02:22] Joe: Speaking of, uh, insurances or, I think it’s pronounced Doug. It’s, it’s, it’s insurances, right? Insurance insurances trying to wind me up at the beginning, aren’t you? [00:02:30] Joe: Speaking of insurances, so if you had to use your homeowner’s insurance, you guys had like 95 mile an hour winds. [00:02:37] OG: Yeah, thankfully not. Not yet. Anyway. The, uh, five inches of rain might do us in, but, uh, so far no wind damage. It’s rain [00:02:45] Joe: today. So OG is family building an arc in the backyard? I may, [00:02:49] OG: uh, I may not be here the rest of the day. [00:02:51] OG: One lightning strike away. I. You know [00:02:54] Doug: that is true. Doug’s like, [00:02:55] OG: promises. Promises. I was gonna [00:02:56] Doug: say, he hasn’t been able to get you so far. God knows you’ve earned it. [00:03:00] Joe: Right. And the woman who is, uh, currently in Manhattan but just partied with us in Boston, Paula Pantos [00:03:06] Paula: here. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And you got me with that transition. [00:03:10] Paula: I was not expecting the, the State Farm transition. I’ve been on literally hundreds of shows and, uh. It’s rare that I’m surprised, but Joe, it’s something new all the time, Paula. It’s something new. Something new. New master of the way. Something new. Yeah, exactly. [00:03:24] Joe: We try to keep people guessing, like you and I were recording an episode of Afford Anything earlier today. [00:03:30] Joe: Mm-Hmm. And you actually knew something about Pop trivia. I pop culture. I did. Like what the hell happened there? There you [00:03:35] Paula: mentioned Guy Richie and immediately I was like, oh, Madonna’s ex-husband. And who knew? I, no idea. Joe was like, he had to Google it. He was like, is guy Richie really mad? He is. [00:03:45] Joe: And isn’t it weird that I have to second guess Paula on on pop culture? [00:03:50] Joe: Like I don’t think so. [00:03:51] Paula: See, the thing is I don’t watch movies, but I know gossip. I know celebrity gossip. I. [00:03:55] Joe: Perfect. Well, guy Richie makes some good movies too and TV shows and somebody who is like, I don’t, I dunno how to transition. There is like bringing the TV show of financial planning to you. That’s probably horrible. [00:04:06] Joe: Elaine King is back. How are you? [00:04:09] Elaine: Good, thank you. I was like cia. [00:04:12] Joe: Perfect. Well you’ll have to teach me all the words because we are about to head to the town. Did you grow up in Lima? [00:04:19] Elaine: I was born in Lima. [00:04:20] Joe: You’re born, how long did you live there? [00:04:23] Elaine: Probably seven years off and on. [00:04:25] Joe: Yeah, I can’t wait ’cause we’re headed there in September. [00:04:27] Joe: We were talking about that today before we went live. [00:04:29] Elaine: Yeah. You should be prepared to have the best food in the world. [00:04:32] Joe: Well, let’s talk about what you do for a second lame For the three people that weren’t here last time when you were here with us. Tell us a little bit about you. [00:04:39] Elaine: Oh, okay. So I’m a certified financial planner and my mission in life is to make money a positive force in the world. [00:04:45] Elaine: ’cause I’ve seen money being so destructive and separating families that I do everything and anything I can to make sure that money makes sense to you. So behind me, I’ve written about eight books on financial literacy for all kinds of people because I really truly believe that. With a good financial plan and good money sense, you can really conquer your world. [00:05:07] Joe: That’s why we love having you here with us, Elaine, is because we’re on board with every step of that. We’re gonna talk today about people that struggle with money, who shouldn’t, right? We have these high income earners that don’t seem to be able to create wealth out of it. If that is you or if you dream about making more money, how do we turn? [00:05:27] Joe: Big money into actual wealth. We’re gonna have that in just a second. But first, if you wanna help out the show, you know how you do it. You help out the sponsors who help the show, who make it free for you. And after our trivia question today, the rest of the episode, the second half of the show is always sponsor free. [00:05:42] Joe: So please help us help you by helping the sponsor. Does that make any, I don’t know if that makes sense, but let’s go. All right. We got OG here. We have a lane here. We got Paula Neighbor Doug. Let’s get rolling. [00:05:59] Joe: Our piece today that is inspiring. This conversation comes to us from the Blog Banker on Fire. This is a classic one. It came out a couple years ago, but you know what? We didn’t look at it then and I was just, we were flipping through Banker on Fire and, and I really liked this piece. Six Reasons Why High. [00:06:17] Joe: Earners don’t get rich. Now, stackers, you don’t have to have it in front of you, but if you want it in front of you, just go to our show notes page at stacky Benjamins dot com and you can follow along there. But like I said, no reason to do that. I think for today, I wanna start where Banker On Fire starts, guys, which is, he talks about the story of this gentleman, Rick Fuss. [00:06:37] Joe: Is it Fusco? Scon, Rick, anybody? A graduate of both Dartmouth and University of Chicago. He went on to have a story career in international finance. Over the course of 21 years, he wrote to become the global head of fixed income at Merrill Lynch, accumulating a multimillion dollar fortune along the way, retiring in his forties to become a philanthropist, but he got in over his head when that global financial crisis hit 2007, 2008. [00:07:02] Joe: Two years after that, he filed for a spectacular bankruptcy just to keep a roof over his head. He then dives into how would this person lose all of their money? Why is somebody who’s so blessed with this huge opportunity and clearly. Bringing in a lot. How do they end up filing for bankruptcy? Let’s start, Elaine with you as our guest. [00:07:26] Joe: When you work with people, do you see this Often? Somebody that’s a high income earner should have stacked tons and tons of Benjamins behind them and just is struggling to make that happen. [00:07:38] Elaine: Oh yeah, absolutely. There’s really no instructions on what you should do with your money. So I had a client once, I’ll tell you, it’s kind of funny. [00:07:47] Elaine: He made a million dollars a year and I told him, how much do you save? And he said, I don’t know. And I said, do you have your tax return? And he said, yes. And I said, so anything that is not there, then you spend, like, if it says a million, that’s what you spend. And he said, yeah, basically. So a lot of people are not. [00:08:05] Elaine: Taught to save, but most importantly, the fact that you should have at least a multiple of what you make. So if somebody makes a million dollars, it should have at least what, like 3, 4, 5, 6 times your earnings if you’re in your forties or your fifties, and people don’t think about that because that’s a lot of money. [00:08:21] Elaine: But if you start saving a little bit earlier, you will have a multiple of it. So I see that all the time. People that make 300,000, 200,000 and they have a hundred thousand dollars saved. That’s not enough. [00:08:33] Joe: Yeah, yeah. In their fifties, in their late forties and, and haven’t done any of that. You know, it’s funny, Paula, Elaine talks about there’s no instructions. [00:08:42] Joe: I also feel like, and you know, I, I watch your Instagrams, but while I’m flipping through Paula’s responsible Instagrams, I see what you see, which is, I feel like TikTok Instagram culture is not about what Elaine’s talking about. Not only are there no instructions, I feel like the instructions we get often are emphasizing something completely different. [00:08:59] Paula: Yeah, that’s why curating your information diet is so important. In the same way that you curate your food diet, you, you curate what goes into your mouth. Because some things are junk food and some things are more nutritious, which is just another way of saying some things will. Make you healthier or are likely to make you healthier and some things are likely to make you less healthy. [00:09:20] Paula: The same is true for what we let into our brain. And so curating that and being very selective about what we allow into our brain space is a major piece of, of making sure that we calibrate our mindset to, to healthy thinking. [00:09:36] Joe: og when Doug and I were in Detroit at our meetup, uh, a couple weeks ago, were you there Doug when one of the people said, we were talking about what was kind of the thing that helped you get good with money? [00:09:49] Joe: Yeah. And the first person who raised their hands up bankruptcy I was, which I did not expect. I did not expect somebody to say bankruptcy, but he said before that he had, to Paul’s point about, you know, about not having curated stuff, oh gee, he had the, he, he had the wrong stuff. He was following, he had a bunch of toys. [00:10:06] Joe: He didn’t care about any of it. And when he went bankrupt, luckily he was young enough that it was the slap across the face. He needed to get his life together. And he said, now he’s been able to retire. He is been able to do the things that he wanted to because of that, that brutal slap. But we don’t want people to go through what this stacker went through or what Rick Fusco in this piece went through. [00:10:26] Joe: How do we get kind of that wake up call ahead of time that, hey, just because I make a lot of money doesn’t mean I’m, I’m guaranteed wealth. [00:10:33] OG: Well also, let’s be sure or be clear here, Rick’s bankruptcy that they talk about was on his $14 million house and um, you know, had two swimming pools and that came on the heels of him selling his $5 million house in Palm Beach. [00:10:47] OG: So, you know, I mean, he could have downsized just a scotch probably, you know, saved a little bit, just a little bit, a little bit. You know, maybe try to find a $7 million house instead of a 15 million. I don’t know. Just call me crazy. I. The interesting thing when people talk about how much money they make, it’s always in the sense of like gross income, top line revenue. [00:11:06] OG: Like, I make $200,000 a year. My salary is 3 25, you know, or whatever. And we, we converse like that. We never think about how much money we actually. Keep after even just payroll taxes, which sometimes, as Joe, you and I both know, and maybe anybody else here listening would know as well. Sometimes the payroll tax people don’t really line up with what the income tax people want, you know? [00:11:30] OG: And, and then you owe a little bit more. But payroll, taxes, health insurance, you know, the normal stuff that comes outta your paycheck, you know, there’s a big decline that comes right out of there right at the beginning, or a big withdrawal, I should say. And we use these words. And when we have this, this language of, I make this money. [00:11:48] OG: Your brain will believe it, like the mental power of your basic self affirmation over and over and over again of, I make 250 grand. I make 250 grand. I make two 50 grand. And then how that turns into your livelihood around that would be so much different. If instead of saying that you said, I keep 150,000, I keep 150,000, I keep like, your, your whole life would change just by using the right vocabulary around what your income is and how you think about things. [00:12:17] OG: It’s very bizarre how we quote things in gross income or business revenue or whatever, and not in like, this is how much I, you know, oh, my business does 2 million. Cool, but how much do you make? Uh, 32,000. It’s like, it’s a big, right. It’s a big difference. You [00:12:32] Joe: know, I remember we were talking to Chad Carson about that, about people that have this incredibly huge real estate empire. [00:12:38] Joe: It takes them forever to manage it. And they’re bringing in the same amount of money as somebody who had a much smaller real estate empire and just made sure that every deal lined up better. Yeah. And so they were able to have more free time. Just because you have a bigger, I dunno. Just because you have more stuff around you does not mean that you’re, you’re living a fuller life. [00:12:57] Joe: I’m wondering because that is what OGs talking about. Elaine is number one on this list. He says, you aren’t making that much money. He says 300,000 or 500,000 might sound punch it, but reality, it’s far from being an obscene amount of money that will make you rich. And I love what OGs saying, we get addicted to this top line, right? [00:13:14] Joe: And people think about this all the time. What do we do to not be so addicted to that? I mean, is this much more paying attention to net income is about having the right tools, the right spreadsheets about actually. I don’t know, having a budget, where’s, where do we begin to divorce ourself from? This idea that I make 500,000 when that’s nowhere near the amount you are actually keeping. [00:13:36] Joe: I. [00:13:37] Elaine: Well, you have to think about your life plan in terms of proportions, because a lot of people, when they make money, I mean, if, if you’re listening and you’re experiencing, you know you’re gonna get a bonus, that doesn’t mean you have to spend it, right? Your lifestyle doesn’t have to go up. So if you have a plan and you can have a proportion. [00:13:56] Elaine: Always of savings. Whether you make $10,000, a hundred thousand or a million dollars, you’re always gonna be saving 20% and growing it. So I like what OJ was saying, it’s not what you make, it’s what you get to keep. Because if your lifestyle is 99% of your income, then you get to save 1%. You have to always aim that your lifestyle is 80% of your income live below your means, and that’s when you get to. [00:14:23] Elaine: Really enjoy when you get older of what everything that you wanna do. So I think it’s a formula. I mean, I’m sorry I’m a mathematical person, but I think it’s a formula and whether you’re small in numbers or big in numbers, that proportion has to stay. I don’t know if you guys agree on that. [00:14:42] Joe: Yeah. Well, well, I wanna draw attention to one number that you said. [00:14:45] Joe: You mentioned 20% save 20% for people just starting out. Is that a good number to strive for? [00:14:51] Elaine: Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially because you go from student college, you know, eating Chef Boyd or Ramen, whatever, to, you know, having to rent and buying your first car. You don’t have to go all the way high. You, you just go gradually. [00:15:05] Paula: Paul, you like [00:15:05] Joe: that [00:15:06] Paula: 20% number. To start out, I say whatever amount you are currently saving, next month, save 1% more. Oh. Then the following month, save 1% more than that, and then the month after that, save 1% more than that. And if you just do that month after month after month, soon, you’ll be at 110%. I was gonna say exactly years. [00:15:30] Paula: Then [00:15:31] OG: get a credit card [00:15:31] Joe: loan and then I got into credit card debt. How did that happen? I was funding my 110%. I had to get into credit card debt to get there. Yeah. og, do you like that 20% number as a starting point? [00:15:42] OG: I mean, I, I don’t have any idea what the average person saves. Uh, I mean, I think technically the average person saves negative money, so probably anything Seven. [00:15:49] OG: Is seven the average number, Elaine? Is that what you’re saying? Yeah, I mean. Any number is, is better than zero. And, and like Paula has said, if you can add a little bit to it and compound it, if you’re just starting out, it doesn’t really matter what the number is. That’s that you start out at, it’s a combination of all of these things put together. [00:16:07] OG: You know, it’s like you’re in school and now you get your first job and it’s like, oh, I got my first job. I make a hundred grand. No, you don’t. You probably take home 70, which means, you know, after taxes and health insurance and all that other sort of stuff, now you have to pay taxes. After you do some savings, you probably can live on 50, you know, make a hundred, taxes are 20, savings are another 10. [00:16:31] OG: And now you, you’re really living on 50. And yet so much would go to the bank and say, wanna buy a house? And they go, cool. How much money do you make? I make a hundred grand. Oh, you get to buy this si size of house. So you start out behind from day one. But if that’s where you are, it’s totally fine. Start saving some money and get your lifestyle in check. [00:16:50] OG: You don’t have to just ’cause you got a pay raise. You don’t have to buy another car. You can stay where you are. You don’t have to move, buy a different house. You can keep your lifestyle at whatever level it’s at. For a period of time, you just have to freeze it to get back on the other side of that curve. [00:17:03] OG: You know, you think about it like a graph using Elaine’s example of mathematics. You just have to get on the other side of that curve and then go ahead, increase your lifestyle. You know, once you’re saving 10, 15, 20%, then every time you get a pay raise, have fun, go on vacation, do your thing, as long as you stay on that side of the equation. [00:17:20] Joe: I love that idea of a freeze because I love that. The connotation then is you’re gonna pay attention month by month by month to make sure, oh gee, that you lock it down. Yeah. That’s [00:17:28] OG: not a life sentence. I think a lot of people getting in credit card debt or you know, some money issue happens like, oh my God, I gotta, I can never go on vacation. [00:17:36] OG: It’s like, no, you just can’t go right now. It’s not never just. Don’t go now, just wait six months for God’s sake. It’ll still be there. Probably. Or maybe it’s dads calm down, or maybe it’s camping in the [00:17:47] Joe: backyard instead of, [00:17:49] Elaine: yeah. Yes. Oh dear. Where do you wanna go on vacation? [00:17:51] OG: Where do I want to go on vacation? [00:17:53] OG: I, I, I don’t really, uh, I don’t, I dont really go places. This is, yeah. Yeah. Things we don’t really probably talk about. Uh, right now I have a kid that’s about to go to college and another kid that’s gonna go to college in two years and an 8-year-old daughter who knows what Louis Vuitton is. So there’s basically no vacations. [00:18:10] Elaine: And Sephora and Sephora. [00:18:12] OG: I, okay. She’s not on that yet. Yeah. Thank God. That’s the next step away. I know. That’s, that’s the next level. [00:18:17] Elaine: Wow. [00:18:18] OG: So no vacations for og, it’s just, uh. Slave in away in the basement next to Doug, [00:18:23] Elaine: you can come to Miami to visit. [00:18:25] OG: Perfect. I do love Miami. [00:18:26] Joe: That is one of OGs. You’re, you’re speaking his language, Elaine. [00:18:29] Joe: It is my favorite place. [00:18:30] Doug: $5,000 cars. Everybody got ’em. [00:18:32] Joe: Yeah. I do love the idea of freeze, the OG that you mentioned, Elaine, I love the high number. You know, some people in the fire movement are like 20%, how cute. But for the average American out there, 20% is a big, big number. And if we could get everybody to that, I mean, how great would we be? [00:18:46] Joe: So I love that as an aspirational number. And Paul, I like this idea of challenges. Mm-Hmm. You know, I like challenging ourself. You know, we, I. As part of our stacked book club, we each did a, a spending or saving challenge. Everybody picked one, and Cheryl and I decided to eat all the food in our freezer before we went out and bought any of the main courses. [00:19:07] Joe: And it took us forever. It took us so long. To get through it and what food waste we would’ve had had we not do that. So I love, I love all three of these. Paul, I wanna stick with you for a second because number two on this piece is you spend money before you make it. You spend it ahead of time. I remember NFL player, uh, a Philip Buchanan we had on a few years ago. [00:19:28] Joe: And talked about when he got drafted, he was already over a million dollars in debt because he spent all of his bonus money all of his first year signings on stupid crap before he started. But Paul is, you know, you don’t gotta be an NFL football player to make that mistake. [00:19:44] Paula: Yeah, it’s very easy. If you anticipate getting a big payout, you anticipate a large commission check, a big holiday bonus, a big promotion, E, even if transitioning from being a college student into getting your first job. [00:19:57] Paula: Great. I’ve, I’ve just gone from having near zero income to having any income at all, and it can be very easy because you’re anticipating. Moving up to the next bracket to start spending accordingly. [00:20:10] Joe: The first thing I saw when I graduated, you know, many, many hundreds of years ago, but I’m sure it’s still the same thing today, when people got their first job outta college, you know, Paula, how they celebrate. [00:20:21] Joe: The average person I saw went and bought a brand new car because, quote, I deserve it. Right? I have my first job and they didn’t have any money yet. They had the first paycheck or the letter from their new employer that they could go buy this car. And were very proud of the fact that they were now in debt up to their eyeballs before the job even began. [00:20:38] Paula: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that’s, um, that anticipatory spending, I think sometimes it comes from a place of you’ve felt a sense of scarcity for a very long time. [00:20:50] Speaker 2: Mm-Hmm. [00:20:50] Paula: And so the. Idea of being five feet away from that finish line can drive some of that anticipatory spending. And so I think a, a mental reframing, and this is of course easier said than done, but embracing some type of a mental reframing in which rather than feeling scarcity, you feel. [00:21:10] Paula: A sense of enoughness with where you currently are. I think that’s one of the best ways to head off the anticipatory spending without feeling like you’re needing to exercise discipline in order to do so. I [00:21:22] Joe: think enoughness is our kick ass newer of the day. I. It’s not, I was [00:21:26] OG: gonna go with anticipatory, honestly. [00:21:27] Paula: It’s, it’s enoughness of [00:21:28] Doug: award, right? I I was still focused on how many syllables in anticipatory, [00:21:34] Joe: right out of fingers. A lot of, oh geez. Anticipatory ness. I dunno. Yeah. A good example of this, it was close to home, was that Doug knew that it was bonus time happening in the basement. You remember this Doug and so. [00:21:45] Joe: Doug went and he got all the designs done for a new pool behind his house. And then it turned out his employers gave him Jelly the month club. And, uh, he wasn’t very, wasn’t very happy there, had religious candles and then, and, and then, then Cousin Eddie had to help him. Oh, wait, that might be a movie. [00:22:04] OG: But again, you know, thinking about what Paula just said here, this is all about the mindset. [00:22:09] OG: This is all about your brain playing tricks on you because. You cannot tell a lie to yourself. You just can’t do it. Your brain is set up in a way that you are the most trustworthy person that you know. If you’re trying to lose weight and you’re like, how come I can’t do it? And you’re, and you go, well, it’s ’cause you’re fat and you’re ugly. [00:22:27] OG: Like that gets to you, right? And so the same thing is true with money. If you’re like, oh, I’m gonna make this money, or I got this big bonus coming, your brain has already consumed it. That’s why having a spending plan, you know, people use the word budget. If you set up at the beginning of the month and like list out all of your expenses and like where all the money’s gonna get spent to where your income is. [00:22:46] OG: I get paid on this Friday, the money goes to my bank account. Like literally kind of timeline it out. Your brain will not be able to find additional spending throughout the month because as long as you zeroed out your budget throughout the month in advance of the month happening. So you’re in June. So do Julys now. [00:23:05] OG: You will not have the opportunity to spend money. ’cause your brain already knows the answer to the math problem. Your brain already goes, Nope, there’s no money at the end of this month. We’ve already done this. We’ve already solved this problem. I don’t have to dedicate any energy to this. [00:23:17] Joe: Well, let’s talk tactics for a second, og. [00:23:18] Joe: ’cause I love that tactic, but this is why so many people I think are devotees of YN then, right? Because that software does exactly that. [00:23:25] OG: Well, yes, and I don’t know. If Y NAB does it in advance or in arrears. I don’t know if it’s like a record keeping, I don’t know anything about YN No. You give [00:23:33] Joe: it every, every dollar has a job before you earn it. [00:23:36] Joe: You take it and allocate it in. Yeah. So there you go. This is my grocery money. This is my car payment money. You know, to go back to that. Yeah. This is the money I’m saving. Every dollar has a job, so before you earn it, it’s already spent in a responsible way. [00:23:46] OG: Yeah. It’s the exact same thing. I do it on paper and pencil, so. [00:23:50] OG: When it’s time to kind of clean it up a little bit, that’s such an effective tool because again, your brain can’t tell the difference between vivid imagination and reality. And this is so true. The only way I can prove it to you is every one of us has had a dream that you’ve woken up from and gone, dude, that was so real because your, you know, your brain doesn’t know that it was fake. [00:24:11] OG: And you know, or you, you wake up and you’re angry at your partner and you can’t figure out why it’s, and it’s just because you had a dream that they peed you off, right? It’s like, and it’s like, oh, this is a dream. Why am I so hanging onto that? It was make believe, but your brain doesn’t know the difference. [00:24:26] OG: Do the same tricks with money. A lot of this is just setting yourself up for success amidst all the opportunities to fail. Put yourself in a position to trick yourself in advance. It’s really the success criteria. [00:24:38] Joe: Well, when I was making these mistakes, Elaine, what I had to do was go to an all cash lifestyle. [00:24:42] Joe: I just had to make sure that I, so I could only spend money that I had. It was, IM I, I did make it impossible for myself to spend the money. Before I made it, I just had to take all that away and if I would’ve done the wine a ish thing, the planning out the budget that OGs talking about, I would’ve gotten ahead even quicker there. [00:24:58] Joe: Any other tactics that you use with clients or have used in your own life to help people make that switch? [00:25:04] Elaine: Yeah, so. What I do with clients sometimes, and this is something that may be new to to some that are listening, is that money, yes, was made to spend and to exchange for goods that’s historical, but also in this new modern life that we’re living. [00:25:21] Elaine: We can spend money on assets. And the key to becoming wealthy, besides, you know, being financially healthy, is to accumulate assets that generate money for you in the future. So, for example, what Paula was talking about, you know, the car, if the car is gonna take you from point A and B to generate more income, then it could be potentially be seen as an asset. [00:25:47] Elaine: But if it’s just your second car, that’s not gonna generate any income. Then it’s just. Expenditure. If you’re gonna add another bathroom to your home, then it’s a capital expenditure, which means it’s an asset. Your home is gonna be worth more, and therefore you can rent it in the future for more. So I think for those who are starting up, they should divide their budget into things that you need absolutely to keep your home. [00:26:11] Elaine: Your lights on, but also at the bottom of your budget, you should add capital expenditures. Things that you want to spend, I don’t know, maybe, uh, build a business, create some passive income, buy a piece of land. Maybe you don’t have enough money to buy another home, but buy a piece of land that in the future you can rent out. [00:26:27] Elaine: So when. In Spanish is gu. You know when the cows are, are skinny. Maybe you’re cash poor sometimes, but you are asset rich and you can make that asset create more income for you. Do you see what I’m saying? I’m, I’m sure you see what I’m saying, but [00:26:45] Joe: it’s a great way to think about it. And Paul, I saw you give some big head [00:26:47] Paula: nod when Elaine said, buy assets. [00:26:50] Paula: I was liking when the cows are skinny. What a beautiful like visual metaphor. I absolutely agree. Assets. I think it’s a two step process. When you’re at the beginning of your journey, if you are in your twenties or if you are at, is that when the, is that when the cows are skinny, when you’re in your twenties? [00:27:06] Paula: For, for most people, yes. I mean, you know, for most people, yes. When you’re in your twenties, unless you’re Justin Bieber, you probably haven’t made big money yet. And so at that stage, investing in, in human capital, investing in your abil your skills and your ability to earn money is one of the best investments that you can make. [00:27:26] Paula: But after you do that, once you have some type of. Decently or highly compensated skill and you are making good money, then it’s a matter of accumulating assets. So I, I think there’s a, a, a switch that happens when you move from skill acquisition, and I mean of on, and obviously lifelong learning is important, but when your primary focus of skill acquisition versus when your primary focus is asset acquisition. [00:27:53] Joe: The skill acquisition, I think early on, so important to think is, is, is this, is this putting more stuff in my corner to fatten up the cows? Right. I don’t, I’m just trying to keep it going. [00:28:02] Paula: Yeah. Uh, or planting grass. Yeah, [00:28:05] Joe: that’s right. Coming up in the second half of this discussion, we’re gonna talk about people moving around geographically for new opportunities. [00:28:14] Joe: A banker on fire does not like that one. And then also you don’t make the effort to manage your money. Just a couple more that we’re going to dive into maybe doing a better job on and give you some tactics to, uh, do better in those areas. But at the halfway point of every Friday show, we take our three contributors to this show, Paula og and my mom, who never wants to play for herself. [00:28:39] Joe: So Elaine King, you’re playing on behalf of my mom today. Okay? It’s a year long competition, Elaine. We’ve got some good news and some bad news about you playing for mom. Uh oh. Would you like the good news or the bad news? [00:28:53] Elaine: Um, the bad news first. [00:28:55] Joe: The bad news is you are in second place. You’re tied for second with five, so you’re not winning. [00:29:01] Joe: That’s the bad news. But the good news is, is you will be guessing Second, because, and I can’t believe I’m saying this ’cause Paula Panta is winning so far this year. This never happens. What is going on? Yeah. Paula has six, mom has five. And OG gets to guess LA when’s when Doug is the last time that [00:29:21] Doug: OG got to guess last. [00:29:23] Doug: It has happened before, but it’s usually a momentary aberration. It’s a little dip in the market and he comes roaring back. This has been a sustained. Depressed period for him. I won last [00:29:34] OG: week. What [00:29:34] Doug: are you guys talking about? [00:29:35] Joe: Well, he won last week, so, but it was depressing that you won last week, og? I don’t know. [00:29:41] Joe: Uh, we need a trivia question though. And Doug you provide those. So let’s see what our question is. This fine Friday? [00:29:52] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Since Elaine King is on the show today, I thought it’d be a great excuse to talk about her home country. Of Peru and more importantly, Peru’s Lake Titty Kaka. It’s like a Boy scout troop. Went on a camping trip and got a merit badge for Lake naming. I can’t wait to visit one day and see what inspired that name. [00:30:12] Doug: Is it the, the, the first part, the titty part, or the kaka part? I don’t know. I don’t even really care. Believe it or not, lake Titty kaka isn’t even the best thing about Peru. First off, Peruvians celebrate New Year’s by gifting each other yellow underwear for good luck. I’ve always been a fan of that tradition, so I tried giving Joe’s mom some of my underwear as a gift one year. [00:30:32] Doug: Looking back, she must have had something against the people of Peru because she was not happy about the yellow ones. Hey, maybe she was hoping I gave her red ones. I, I don’t know. I don’t know. She’s hard to figure out sometimes. In addition to sexy lakes and traditions, Peru is also the seventh largest producer of gold in the world. [00:30:49] Doug: As of this year, they have over 100 gold mines in operation. That’s enough to keep Mr. T accessorized for a lifetime. Am I right? Today’s trivia question is how many metric tons of gold did Peru produce in 2022? I’ll be back right after. I see if there’s any lakes around here that haven’t been named yet. I got a couple ideas. [00:31:12] Joe: I bet you do Doug. I bet you do. Had you heard of that traditional lane? You know that tradition giving people underwear? [00:31:20] Elaine: I heard of the tradition, not giving it to others, but I heard of it. Yeah. Yellow, right? [00:31:26] Joe: Yellow, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yellow. So interesting. And I can’t wait to go. What? What’s it? No, not about the underwear that came out for no other reason than the free underwear. [00:31:38] Joe: I am currently running out of yellow underwear part, sorry, underwear is yellow. We know that. I hear the beeping sound as I’m trying to back away from that statement. Let’s get on with this then. So Paula, you have to guess first. How many metric tons of gold. Did Peru produce in 2022? [00:31:56] Paula: Oh man. Okay, so I have to think in terms of the metric system, [00:32:07] Paula: I’m just gonna kind of randomly throw out numbers. Let’s see. Uh, searching my ingredient label for some number inspiration. Ooh. Okay. Alright, so this can. Of Waterloo was manufactured in Austin, Texas, and the zip code of the manufacturing plant, [00:32:27] Doug: this is awesome, [00:32:30] Joe: which you multiply by five. [00:32:32] Paula: The zip code of the manufacturing plant is 7 8 7 0 2, so I’m gonna say 78,702. [00:32:39] Joe: 78,000. 702 Metric tons. [00:32:44] Paula: Metric tons. [00:32:45] Joe: 78,000 7 0 2. Elaine, you think that’s high or low? [00:32:51] Elaine: I don’t have an idea. [00:32:56] Elaine: Let me look at my, no. Okay. 70,000 metric tons. Well, I guess I could say a hundred thousand. And then, you know, OJ can go lower and then we’ll see who wins. [00:33:08] Joe: Alright. A hundred thousand metric tons. We got 70,000 ish, a hundred thousand on the dot. oog, what are you thinking? Metric tons of gold. Uh, [00:33:20] OG: so I think that a metric ton is very close to a real ton, which is 2000 pounds. [00:33:26] OG: And I remember reading somewhere that all the gold ever mind in the history of mankind would basically fill up one Olympic swimming pool. I dunno how deep an Olympic swimming pool is, but it’s pretty deep, I think. But there’s, there’s not a lot. So 2000 pounds of gold is a lot of gold, like in terms of dollars and that sort of thing. [00:33:54] OG: So I think the number’s very small. Because it’s times 2000. Uh, so it, the answer’s in metric tons, yes. Yes. Not in like pounds or anything like that. It’s something metric tons. Metric tons. The numbers are 78,000 and some change in a hundred thousand. It’s, it’s less than, it’s way less than 78,000 only because I can do it. [00:34:16] OG: I’m gonna say everything under Paula, but, um, but I think the real number is like. A hundred or 10 75 or I think it’s, or, or 10. [00:34:26] Joe: Yeah. [00:34:26] OG: Yeah, it’s some single digit, double digit, maybe triple digit number. But I’m gonna say officially everything underneath of Paula. [00:34:33] Joe: Alright. We will see who’s right on this one. [00:34:37] Joe: Is Paula gonna pull further ahead? Is Elaine gonna help Mom? Sorry mom. Make this happen. [00:34:42] Speaker 2: I’m so sorry. Is, is, [00:34:44] Joe: is so G gonna move up? We’ll see in just a minute. We’ll be right back. [00:34:50] Joe: Elaine, you kicked this. No, wait a minute. Paula kicked this off. See, I can’t even, I can’t even get this right. Can’t even get yourself [00:34:56] OG: to say it. [00:34:57] Joe: I know. Paula, you kicked this off with something in the 78,000 ish metric tons. How you feeling? Pretty good. [00:35:03] Paula: I mean, I literally picked up a can of Waterloo Sparkling water, read the zip code off of the back, and that was my guess. [00:35:10] Paula: So, no, not feeling great. I, I think OG is right. Are you cheating on our, our water brand, Paula? I know, right? So, uh, spin Drift is the normal water brand, but you know, I know Waterloo’s better. You gotta drink the competition. [00:35:24] Doug: Waterloo’s absolutely my favorite. And I know that’s controversial, but are we [00:35:27] Paula: starting a Waterloo versus spinoff know? [00:35:30] Paula: Oh, [00:35:30] Doug: oh, he’s got Waterloo as well. Oh, G’s going Laqua, but I like Waterloo. Just a touch more flavor in there. Oh gee. [00:35:38] Paula: I didn’t know you loved the French. I know. [00:35:40] Doug: That’s from Deis. [00:35:42] Elaine: I think it’s a hundred tons. [00:35:44] Joe: Well, so Elaine, you’re not feeling good about your answer either, really? [00:35:47] Elaine: No, I said it in meters. I guess I had to convert it into tongues. [00:35:51] Joe: Yep. Oh, gee. You must be feeling confident then if both Elaine and Paula think you’re right. [00:35:56] OG: Well, I just think 70,000. Times 2000 is such a, yeah. Incomprehensible number. Mm. There’s no one in the planet, in this planet who could figure that math out. So it’s just such a big number. Oh, [00:36:07] Joe: Doug has, I’m sure Doug has. [00:36:08] Joe: Yes. [00:36:09] OG: No Doug, haven’t you? I’ve begged him not to. Oh yeah. I’ve begged him repeatedly. Oh no. He’s gonna get all of the [00:36:13] Doug: math. Because OG loves all of the math. They [00:36:16] OG: hate the math part. It’s so annoying, [00:36:19] Joe: but carry on. Doug Doug, who’s right here Is OG taking this home? [00:36:26] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m gold digger and thoughtful gift giver. Joe’s mom’s neighbor. Doug Gold has been a valuable metal to humans for thousands of years with the first uses of the metal dating back to 4,000 bc. It must have been a trip to be the first person to have found it. One minute you’re panning for who knows what, and the next thing you know you discovered gold. [00:36:47] Doug: Look, everyone, look over there. Lou discovered gold. Today’s trivia question is how many metric tons of gold did Purdue, Purdue, the university, and Peru, the country Purdue, in 2022 combined? It was pretty technical. They probably got it in a lab somewhere. They figured out how to make it. The answer, while gold is Peru’s most valuable export, they also export SA copper and zinc. [00:37:13] Doug: Now, uh, I’m not sure of the exact conversion rate between a ton and a metric ton. I mean, seriously though, does anybody even like the metric system? It totally sucks, but good thing I have the ton app on my phone. Let me just, uh, see here a couple of beep beep beep bop boop, and uh oh. It just says it’s a lot. [00:37:32] Doug: Anyway, overall, the country’s mining sector accounts for 8.3% of the country’s roughly $240 billion. GDP Elaine’s learning so much about her own country. She’s nodding her head like, oh yeah, I knew that. So how many tons were there? Roughly? 62.825 tons. Which means, well, I’m not gonna do the conversion for you yet. [00:37:56] Doug: What I will tell you is that Paul had guessed. Austin, Texas, like that’s not even a number, Paula. [00:38:05] Doug: But if we, if we use Austin zip code, she was over by 78576.3 metric tons. Elaine was over by 99,000 and, and a bunch more OG coming in just under Paula. He was over by 78. 5 76 0.3 because in 2022, Perdue and Peru. Produced 125.7 metric tons of gold, meaning. On a two week streak, OG is our winner. I bet you liked the math that time because you were the winner [00:38:40] Joe: and he thought it was around a hundred, right? [00:38:42] Joe: So not bad. 1 25. [00:38:44] Paula: Man, I should have, I should have taken that zip code and put a decimal point in there. I should have been like, you know what? I bet it’s 78.702 [00:38:51] Joe: Would’ve anchored it lower in everybody. Just one neighborhood of Austin. The [00:38:54] OG: problem Paula, was you’re using the American version of commas and decimal points, and if you would’ve just used. [00:39:02] OG: The European or metric version of doing it, I don’t even know it’s metric version. Then you would’ve been fine. You [00:39:07] Paula: had to convert it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like meters, not tongues. [00:39:11] OG: Yes. Yes. [00:39:12] Joe: Burned by the meter too. Better luck next week. Yeah. And by the way, stackers, if you wanna hear Doug’s wearing without all the beep outs that we did, just come, uh, hang out, live with us on YouTube. [00:39:20] Joe: ’cause you just got Doug as potty mouth. You beep there, you beeping all of [00:39:22] Doug: that [00:39:23] Joe: all the way through our cell. Yes, absolutely. You know we’re not gonna beep out, we’re not gonna beep out the second half of this discussion, which is brought to you by deposit accounts.com. Elaine, you know what happens when you go to deposit accounts.com. [00:39:34] Elaine: No what [00:39:37] Joe: perfect. You find out that that brick and mortar bank where you might be keeping your savings account might not be giving you the interest you deserve. You could compare more than 275,000 deposit rates from over 11,000 banks of credit unions for free. Deposit accounts from LendingTree. As we record this, listen to this. [00:39:53] Joe: The national average savings account is 0.52, so it’s popped up over half a percent, but if you’re in one of the hundreds of banks that is in the top 1%, 4.97, getting close to 5% on savings accounts. You know how I know that? I just went to deposit accounts.com. You can too. All right, let’s, uh, dive into another piece of this, which is this idea of moving around. [00:40:17] Joe: And you know what, og let’s start with you because we hear all the time that people, you know, you gotta move around to make jobs. The average person has seven different companies are more that they work for during their career. That numbers up significantly over 15 years ago. Yet because there’s so much cost around moving that it makes it more difficult to stay. [00:40:41] Joe: We, are you on board with that? [00:40:42] OG: Well, I mean, I guess all of those things are somewhat fact dependent. Uh, I know it does cost a lot of money to move. We moved 10 years ago and it was 10 grand, just about excluding. The cost of selling our house and the cost of deposit on a new apartment, and like all of that sunk costs of the move, but the actual capital cost to move was, you know, about 10 K. [00:41:06] OG: That number undoubtedly is three x now. So if you don’t have a company that’s providing you a relocation benefits, then you’re, you know, you gotta kind of factor that into your decision. Not to mention, you know, the new cost of living and tax situation and whatever, you know, whatever’s going on in the new place that you’re moving to, right? [00:41:26] OG: If you move from a lower cost living area to a higher cost living area, and all you’re doing is looking at that salary increase, like, oh, I’m moving from wherever Midwest to San Francisco, and my gosh, my salary went from 70 grand to one 10. It’s like that probably is not enough to offset the cost of the move, plus the extra taxes and insurance costs and cost of living to move to a really high cost living area. [00:41:51] OG: That doesn’t mean that, that it’s not a good idea because you know, that could change the career trajectory you have. Or there should, could be some other networking opportunities. Your specialty, you know, in that area, which helps. But I think you have to put all those things into the blender to kind of figure out if it’s really a good thing. [00:42:06] OG: You can’t just move. ’cause you know, job B is gonna pay you $25,000 more than job A does. There’s a lot of extra pieces there. I. [00:42:14] Joe: Paul, I wanna go to you next because you’re somebody that made a move and not downstream. Like people moving from high cost of living to low cost living areas right now that we can commute literally to our, another room in our house and work from a, a lot of us can work from home so we can live in a lower cost of living area. [00:42:32] Joe: You actually went to a higher cost of living area. Mm-Hmm. So for you, looking at what. Mr. Banker on Fire is talking about here. You’re doing things. Exactly. Making more difficult on yourself, I would think. [00:42:44] Paula: Yeah. Well. So a couple of things. One, yeah. I decided to move to a higher cost of living area because I’m a believer. [00:42:52] Paula: I, I have become, over the years a believer in the philosophy of let the heart lead and the mind execute. When I was younger, I would let the mind lead, and when I let my mind lead, I did things that were rational and made sense on paper. But that made me very unhappy, not very unhappy. That’s maybe a stretch. [00:43:11] Paula: Yeah. But that made me, you know, dissatisfied enough. What I eventually came to realize is that I should live in the place that I want to live in, even if it doesn’t make sense on paper, and then let the mind execute the most optimal way to do that. But don’t give up living in, in the place that you actually want to live in. [00:43:29] Paula: So if, if what you really want is to live in a high cost city, uh, if there’s a particular city that you just love, live there now to what Banker On Fire wrote he made to. Points that I wanna discuss. First, he talked about the fact that often if you move. You sell your home, and by virtue of selling your home, you don’t get to build a lot of equity because you are, you’re always in the first couple of years of the amortization schedule, you have very little principle payoff, then you sell. [00:43:58] Paula: You don’t have a ton of home equity. On top of that, there are huge transaction costs associated with selling that home that can be remedied if you’re willing to be what’s known as an accidental landlord, meaning you just hold onto that home. Maybe you’re a renter in the new environment for a while while you’re saving up for the next down payment, but you hold onto that home and turn it into a rental property. [00:44:18] Paula: Now, not everybody wants to do that, but if you’re willing to do that, and if you can get enough rent that it at least covers your costs and is at a minimum cash flow, neutral or mildly positive, that’s a great way to continue to build that equity. The other point that Banker on Fire makes though, is that if you move frequently, uh, for your work. [00:44:36] Paula: It means that your spouse has to compromise their career in order to accommodate your move, and it means that, that that could adversely impact your spouse’s earning potential, like their income potential, their. Trajectory up the career ladder or potentially their ability to even work at all. And I think that’s a really important point and probably something that, that’s a point that’s not talked about often enough. [00:45:03] Paula: The age of remote work is helping that a little bit, but that’s very, even to the extent that remote work is helping that, that’s very industry specific. [00:45:12] Joe: I agree with something that, uh, professor Scott Galloway talks about when we move the choosing to move upstream to place, like where you move Paula to Manhattan Mm-Hmm. [00:45:19] Joe: Which is, you know, proximity, even in the age of the internet truly does matter. Mm-Hmm. And being in a community locally of people that are like-minded people moving in the same direction. I mean, there was a reason why in Paris, you know, back at the time of Hemingway, like all these great writers that Scott Fitzgerald, they’re all there together, right? [00:45:36] Joe: Gertrude Stein, they’re all creating stuff. The proximity. And I totally agree with him that proximity is everything. And while the cost of living might be more difficult, that being in a place where great people are doing great work and being a piece of that movement is also great. Mm-Hmm. Uh, Elaine though, there was also one more point Paula didn’t point to. [00:45:56] Joe: And I was glad you didn’t steal this thunder, Paula, because there’s another one. And Elaine, I love coming to you for this because your practice is in Miami. But also in Peru and Banker On Fire talks about if you’re gonna move internationally, you might be giving up government benefits and that your government benefit numbers might be much smaller. [00:46:16] Joe: Do you have to counsel people on that and maybe say, Hey, maybe you wanna stay a little longer in X country to accumulate benefits in that country before you make the big move. [00:46:24] Elaine: There are certain situations and there’s some tax havens that you can have corporations. I agree with Paula in the sense of moving up in a place you like, but also with purpose. [00:46:37] Elaine: I lived in Manhattan for four years, but my purpose there was to start my career in Wall Street and then I moved to a smaller city, Miami, [00:46:47] Joe: way small. I [00:46:47] Elaine: knew that that was gonna be the future of Latin America. Banking and financial industry, so leading with your different factor. With your purpose. I mean, I always knew that I wanted to live around water. [00:47:02] Elaine: I love water. I can’t stand not being around water. I live next to the river when I was in Manhattan. Now I live in an island sort of. So I think purpose, not to, and agreeing with Paul in the sense that don’t let the tail walk the dog. You know? Because if you have purpose and you have energy and motivation, you’re gonna make it work. [00:47:21] Elaine: So the same thing with taxes. So don’t. Don’t just, you know, I have a client that, you know, saving $20,000 on taxes and staying miserable in a city doesn’t make any sense If you can make 10 times more if you move faster. So having financial wellbeing is more important than having financial accumulation, being in a place that makes you happy and that you can thrive and grow. [00:47:44] Elaine: Makes more sense than letting taxes and money drive your destination. My dad was an expat. We always moved places every two years because of a better opportunity. So I associate moving with better opportunities, more income, more benefits. So I think the mindset should be you’re moving to do something better and become something better, as opposed to you’re moving. [00:48:11] Elaine: For a worse position. I mean, why would you even do that? It doesn’t make any sense. Mm-Hmm. So I think you should definitely consult one of us before you decide to move. We would love to throw it in Excel. I’m working hard on learning Python, uh, so one day I can, you know, do it faster, you know, and the cost of living, there’s so much stuff that you have to consider before moving, but definitely. [00:48:36] Elaine: Go with your purpose. If you like water or if you like mountains, go there. It’s gonna make you happier, and therefore you’re gonna thrive and grow. [00:48:44] Joe: Grow your assets. I’m a big fan of lane of water too. Like my body literally craves it. Like if I did get water, I think I’d totally die. [00:48:52] Elaine: Yeah, [00:48:53] Joe: no. Is this on? [00:48:55] Paula: I recommend Waterloo made in Austin, Texas. [00:48:58] Paula: Zip code 7 8 7 0 2 [00:49:02] Joe: for all your water deeds. [00:49:04] Elaine: I thought it was State Farm, not Waterloo. [00:49:07] Joe: Waterloo, if you wanna sponsor this show too, we already. See, see how great we are at this? We’re amazing at this. Uh, last thing I wanna talk about here is that, you know, a lot of people with high income think that they don’t need to spend a lot of time managing their money. [00:49:19] Joe: ’cause there’s always a lot more coming in and, oh gee, you know, on one hand you and I talk about this a lot, right? The one side of the equation that people don’t give enough thought to is making more money. And yet, bank around fire says maybe if you spend some more time managing that money you made, you’d keep some. [00:49:36] OG: Well, I mean, there’s so many components to the concept of money, and it’s not just the earning capabilities of it. It’s not just your top line like we talked about a little bit earlier. It’s the structure of your pay. It’s the type of compensation that you receive, and all of these different things all end up with different taxation. [00:49:58] OG: All the different ways that you can defer, defer the taxation in terms of savings, and then. You know, all the little tactical things. He gives an example of selling stock at a loss and then repurchasing it in his, uh, other account. You know, that all sounds good on paper. But then there’s rules around that too, you know, in terms of how long you have to wait and so on and so forth. [00:50:18] OG: And, and there does get to be a point in time, you know, I think it’s like, uh, what, what is that called? Like an inverse bell curve? I don’t know the name of it. Parabola? Is that what that is? It’s a u-shape. What’s a parabola? Does anybody know? [00:50:30] Elaine: Para. [00:50:31] OG: I don’t know. Anyways, like when you’re getting started with money, you need lots of help. [00:50:36] OG: And then you get things going I think, and like things are going good and life is good and you know, everything’s kind of on autopilot. And then stuff can get more complicated than on the backend, whether it’s just in terms of volume of money you have or. Tax issues or just simply you don’t wanna deal with it because your biased and best use of time is to go produce a result for your company or for, you know, your organization. [00:51:00] OG: And it’s just better to devote your time and energy to that and have someone else handle these other things for you. So there’s. Lots of opportunity there to, to be more efficient. Um, I did think it was funny where, where he talked about how he could never understand how finance people could screw up their money. [00:51:15] OG: And it’s like, well, have you ever seen a fat doctor, like, you know, doctors used to smoke in the room with, with you. Like, Hey, what do you think’s wrong? Whew. You’re like, well, I can narrow down a few things, doc. Mm-Hmm. Got an upper respiratory issue. Have you tried cigarettes? I mean, no, not recently. So I mean, so it happens, but, but this is true with a lot of things in life. [00:51:39] OG: You know, just ’cause I know how to change electrical outlets doesn’t mean that I should be changing an electrical outlet, right? There’s a risk associated with that. So doing nothing is generally an awful strategy. [00:51:51] Joe: Paula, there’s a side conversation to what OG ISS talking about, which is, is it spending more time optimizing if it is the right time for that, or is it better systems? [00:52:02] Paula: Ooh, what I mean, perhaps optimizing comes from system improvement. [00:52:09] Joe: All the above. [00:52:10] Paula: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and perhaps those two are one and the same. [00:52:14] Joe: I just feel like sometimes people are like, well, I gotta devote more. Time to this, and I think that might be a lie. You know what I mean? Maybe more time setting up, you know, a better, better, uh, mousetrap. [00:52:24] Paula: I don’t, I think that to a certain extent you can’t cut back hours any further. And I think if you are in a mode where you are really trying to elevate to the next level, it just requires a lot of hours sometimes how you spend those hours. Do, do you set up the systems? Do you bring in the talent? Um, I. [00:52:46] Paula: Makes a big difference. Yeah. Elaine? [00:52:49] Elaine: Oh yeah. I wanted to backtrack a little on the first question you asked an hour ago. I’m just kidding. The. [00:52:58] Joe: Bring it. [00:52:58] Elaine: Okay. So there is something called Faca, which is a treat treaty that the US has with most of the countries around the world. So if you’re thinking about living internationally, you have to remember your citizenship. I use myself as an example. Even though I’m Peruvian, I’m also a US citizen, which means that I have to pay taxes as a US citizen. [00:53:21] Elaine: I am from, I was born in Peru, but if I make money in Peru, I need to tell the US government. If I have a savings account in Peru, I need to tell the US government because they have a treatment that they tell each other, the banks tell each other. So don’t get in trouble with the US government and avoid paying taxes. [00:53:39] Elaine: If you go. To another country because you are a US citizen first and for foremost, and you have to pay taxes. So you may be in a country, end up in a country that you have to pay two times taxes because you have a rental in the US and you’re making money in in another country. So make sure that you have the right advisor to give you that you don’t wanna owe money to the IRS. [00:54:03] Doug: And, and that’s because you said I had to remember Fat Guy. What was the [00:54:08] Elaine: fatca? F-A-T-C-A. [00:54:10] Doug: Ah, that’s not what I heard at [00:54:12] Joe: all. [00:54:13] Doug: fatca, [00:54:14] Joe: fatca. Fat guy. Got it. Fat guy. It’s slightly different. Doug slightly different, [00:54:17] Elaine: but that will remind you. Fat guy will remind you. [00:54:20] Joe: It will. It’s not perfect, but it’s directionally right there. [00:54:24] Joe: That’s a great place I think for us to end this discussion. I will link to this because there’s actually six in total. We covered four of them. At, uh, stacky Benjamins dot com if you wanna dive into them more. But, uh, love that discussion. I love the tactical tips you all brought. Let’s find out what’s happening, where each of you are. [00:54:41] Joe: We’ll have our guest of honor go last, oh gee. What’s happening to you? This fine weekend? What’s happening to you? What’s happening with you? What are you having done to yourself this weekend? [00:54:50] OG: We are in the middle of building our arc. We are nearly finished. And we need it because, uh, pretty soon we’ll just float away. [00:54:57] OG: So, yeah. Uh, this weekend is a golf tournament, so maybe, supposedly, maybe Yes. Where [00:55:04] Elaine: are you OJ [00:55:05] OG: water polo? Uh, I live in Dallas. It’s, uh, rained a lot here in the last, uh, four or five days [00:55:13] Joe: because OG likes water too, Elaine, so he is trying to get as much around him in Dallas. Uh, make it less landlocked than it is currently. [00:55:22] Joe: Paula, what’s happening at the Afford Anything Podcast? [00:55:25] Paula: Oh, on the Afford Anything podcast, we have an interview with a guy by the name of Michael McQueen who talks about mindset. So he talks about how to, how to persuade others and be a more effective communicator. Uh, you know, whether you are trying to convince your spouse to move. [00:55:44] Paula: Into index funds instead of mutual funds, or you’re trying to convince your kids to save some additional, uh, some of their, the money that they make from their summer jobs, you’re trying to convince them to invest some of that, or you’re trying to convince your boss to give you a raise or your client to pay you more. [00:56:00] Paula: Uh, he talks about mindset and persuasion. So that’s the Afford Anything podcast. [00:56:05] Joe: He’s so interesting and so energetic. Mm-Hmm. And he also has that Australian accent. Yes. Which doesn’t hurt either. [00:56:12] Paula: Exactly. Yes, exactly. He was, uh, Australia’s Speaker of the Year, keynote Speaker of the year. [00:56:17] Joe: Keynote Speaker of the year, keynote speaker of the [00:56:19] Paula: year in 2015. [00:56:20] Joe: Just a fabulous guy, Michael McQueen. If you’ve never heard him, you can hear him on the Afford Anything podcast. Yes. Elaine, thanks so much for coming back. We love having you here. And, uh, congratulations on everything you’ve been doing. What’s happening with you and your practice? [00:56:33] Elaine: Well. It’s growing, it’s thriving. [00:56:36] Elaine: I’m gonna be on TV on Wednesday in Telemundo, talking about why women need to save more than men. And I’m writing my ninth book on, uh, methodology for women also. And I’m waiting for Miami to cool down because I, uh, I also love to play golf, but I can’t play in 95 degree weather. It’s too [00:56:56] OG: hot. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:56:58] Elaine: I’m jealous that ojs playing golf. [00:57:00] OG: Oh, it’s still 95. Like it’s, it’s not. How do [00:57:03] Elaine: you play at six in the morning? [00:57:05] OG: It’s just [00:57:06] Elaine: with a fan. [00:57:08] OG: They’re [00:57:08] Doug: just [00:57:08] OG: a little [00:57:08] Doug: tougher in [00:57:09] OG: Texas. You can’t shovel sweat, so we’re okay. Yeah, there’s, it’s a dry heat. It’s a dry heat. It’s not, it’s a humidity that gets [00:57:17] Joe: you. [00:57:17] Elaine: I’m gonna wait for the winter to play golf maybe, but I love golf too. [00:57:21] Joe: A good time. If people can find you@elaineking.com, right? [00:57:25] Elaine: Yes. Elaine king.com. [00:57:26] Joe: Awesome, and we’ll link to afford anything to a linking.com and to this wonderful piece that we talked about today on our show notes page. Doug, man, I think you got it from here, brother. What should be our takeaways today? [00:57:38] Doug: Darn right, I got it from here, Joe, here’s what’s stacked up on our to-do list for today. [00:57:43] Doug: First, take some advice from og. Stop reminding yourself how much you make, and instead tell yourself how much you keep. Second, don’t forget the words of Paula Pant whatever you’re saving right now. Your anticipatory goal should be to save 1% more than that next month. Then wash, rinse, and repeat. But the biggest to do, I gotta start panning for whatever might be left undiscovered around here. [00:58:09] Doug: Who knows what I’ll find in Joe’s mom’s jewelry box. Thanks to Elaine King for joining us today. You can find all things elaine@elaineking.com. We’ll also include links in our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. Thanks to Paula Pant for hanging out with us today. You’ll find her fabulous podcast. [00:58:29] Doug: Afford anything wherever you are listening to Finer podcast. And finally, thanks also to OG for joining us. Looking for good financial planning health. Head to Stacking Benjamins dot com slash OG for his calendar. This show is the property of SB podcasts LC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Sulci High. [00:58:50] Doug: Our producer is Karen Repine. Karen and Joe get help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah, and before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. [00:59:15] Doug: This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:59:37] Speaker 2: What are you still doing here? The show is over. Go home. I.
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