Feeling like your wallet’s taking a holiday beating? Don’t sweat it. We’ve got eight clever strategies to keep your spending in check and set yourself up for a financially stronger new year.
But wait—there’s more! We uncover the mind-blowing story of a 29-year-old living large in a mansion filled with luxury cars and Elton John’s piano. What’s his secret? (Hint: It’s not what you’d expect.)
And because we love answering Stackers’ burning questions, we tackle a double feature:
- Pensions: Are they still worth the hype?
- Should you pay off your mortgage before retirement?
Sprinkle in some holiday stress hacks, thoughts on budget-friendly gift-giving, and why Tony the Tiger has something to do with the Grinch, and you’ve got a show packed with financial wisdom you can actually use.
Episode Highlights
- How the Grinch Really Stole Christmas
- Welcome to the Stacking Benjamins Show
- Is Your Holiday Budget Already on Thin Ice?
- 8 Strategies to Tame Holiday Expenses
- A Mansion, Luxury Cars, and Elton John’s Piano?
- Handling Holiday Stress Without Losing It
- Travel Plans & Navigating Holiday Spending
- How to Leverage Debt (the Smart Way)
- Get Kids Involved in the Budget—Yes, It’s Possible
- Starting a 529 Plan? Why Family Might Help
- Gift Strategies That Won’t Break the Bank
- Today’s Date in History: Because Why Not?
- TikTok Minute: The Mansion Story That Broke the Internet
- Listener Questions: Pensions vs. Mortgages
- Corrections Dept: Football Teams Need a Map
- Final Thoughts and Big Takeaways
Whether you’re taming holiday expenses, dreaming of mansion living, or just trying to get through December with your finances intact, this episode’s got something for you. Tune in, take notes, and finish the year strong.
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Our TikTok Minute
Our Headline
Doug’s Trivia
- Which popular character did the man who sang, “You’re a mean one, mister grinch” play in commercials for a popular company?
Better call Saul…Sehy & OG
- Stacker Jim has a few questions about how to account for his pension in retirement, given that it does not adjust for inflation, as well as a question about whether it makes sense to pay off his fixed mortgage before retirement.
Have a question for the show?
Want more than just the show notes? How about our newsletter with STACKS of related, deeper links?
- Check out The 201, our email that comes with every Monday and Wednesday episode, PLUS a list of more than 19 of the top money lessons Joe’s learned over his own life about money. From credit to cash reserves, and insurance to investing, we’ll tackle all of these. Head to StackingBenjamins.com/the201 to sign up (it’s free and we will never give away your email to others).
Join Us Wednesday
Tune in on Friday when our roundtable discusses what money lessons we should have learned this year.
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Miss our last show? Listen here: Ever Wondered Why Success is Just Out of Reach? (SB1616)
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] caller: I must stop this whole [00:00:02] Doug: thing. I up with it now. I must stop Christmas from coming, but how? [00:00:18] Live from Joe’s mom’s basement. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:00:33] I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Duggan. How’s that holiday budget looking? If you’re worried about your money during the most expensive month of the year. You aren’t alone and we are swooping into help. On today’s episode, we’ll share eight strategies to help you tame holiday expenses and gear up for next year. [00:00:51] We’ll also share sequence from a 29-year-old who’s rocking his career and a gigantic home featuring a piano previously owned by Sir Elton John and a garage full of cars. How’s he doing it? We know and you’re gonna find out. We’ll also pass on some secrets to one stacker Who thought I’d better call Saul? [00:01:11] See hi and og, and now two guys who are always the last picked on my dodge ball team. It’s Joe and o June, [00:01:31] Joe: but it’s one of those Letterman style countdown drafts, right where you draft. Best guy first or last. I mean, I keep, [00:01:37] Doug: can’t even make it. And that’s why you’re still can’t even make your own joke [00:01:40] Joe: work. [00:01:41] Doug: Yes, that’s exactly [00:01:42] OG: why they do it that way, Joe. [00:01:44] Doug: You don’t have the physical game or the mental game. Yeah. [00:01:47] Prove [00:01:48] Joe: it right there. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Slow Man Podcast. Oh boy. I am Joe Saul Sea. Hi. It is Wednesday and we are super happy you’re here with us. Sit back and relax ’cause we’re gonna go chew, chew, chewing through. What’s happening holiday? Where? Where are you going? Debt world. That doesn’t work either. [00:02:11] I can’t do that one either. Co [00:02:12] Doug: kahoo, what are you saying? [00:02:14] Joe: Cchu? Kahoo. No, can’t do that. How are you, og? Let’s go there. How are you? [00:02:19] OG: I am, uh, I’m doing really well. Thank you for asking. I am trying to, as I told my kids a week ago when they went to school, I said, you’ve got eight days left. Keep your shit together. [00:02:32] Wow. And now we’re down to like two days before it’s like, you know, holiday, vacation week, you know? Yeah. And I’m having a hard time keeping my together, I’ll be honest. So we’ll see how this goes. Pay no attention [00:02:44] Doug: to the man behind [00:02:45] OG: the curtain. There’s some chance that my may not be together today. [00:02:49] Joe: I have noticed just in the last 24 hours as I’m out and about, just the holiday stress, I can feel it in people. [00:02:56] You know what I mean? Just the interactions you’re having. About a week ago, people were nice and happy and in the spirit, and everybody’s like, no, just man. We’re managing to get through og. We’re just trying to get through it. I don’t notice that at all. I mean, [00:03:08] OG: you haven’t, I don’t go outside everywhere or talk to people. [00:03:10] You don’t [00:03:10] Joe: have to sit with you. Let’s just put it that way. ’cause I get it squarely across the card table from you, but that’s all right. No, don’t have any. We got a great show. We’re gonna help people get through this holiday season. And you know what? To your point with your kids, you just gotta look at those credit cards and go just a few days to go, just to hold it together, keep [00:03:32] OG: together, [00:03:32] Joe: keep it together. [00:03:33] You can do it. And we’re out of the holiday season and we’re into next year. And the one thing you don’t want. It’s a bunch of regret. You just don’t wanna go into next year and go, what did I do? Oh man, what did I do? You don’t wanna be that person. No rigor. So we’re gonna help you with that. We got a tick. [00:03:50] I, I felt like Doug, when you were introducing the TikTok minute, you were like, nanny, nanny poo. Like we know and you don’t. Yeah. So there, that’s exactly what I was doing. Is that not appropriate? It. It was good. Foreshadowing though. We’re gonna talk about a 29-year-old who’s got a what? What’d you say? A piano that was owned by Elton John. [00:04:10] Sir. Sir. Sorry. Elton John. Sir. Elton John. And garage full of cars. Huge house. How does that work? We will see. All right, we got all that and more. You know what, before we can dive in though, we gotta say thanks to the sponsors that make sure this is free for you and that we can keep keeping on, keeping on this holiday season and longer, all year long. [00:04:33] So let’s say hello to them and we’re do our headline. [00:04:38] headlines: Hello Doling. And now it’s time part of the show, our Stacking Benjamins headlines. [00:04:45] Joe: Today’s headline comes to us from Kiplinger. His advice from the Kiplinger Advisor collective, of which, by the way, I am one of these people, not in this piece, but I’m a part of this wonderful group of, uh, people who. [00:05:01] Collaborate to make pieces like this for Kiplinger. Eight tips for surviving the holidays and sticking to your financial goals. It is so easy OG to get derailed from your financial goals. ’cause you’re like, just one more. Just one more. You know, if we, if we have this, just this one experience, it’ll make the holiday season so much brighter. [00:05:23] Doug: OGs, like just one more Porsche. Yeah. [00:05:26] Joe: I think it’s Porsche. [00:05:27] Doug: Wasn’t [00:05:27] Joe: it learned [00:05:28] Doug: that last week. We just did that. You’re right. I don’t know if that’s right there. [00:05:30] OG: No, it’s like the food. That’s how I remembered it. Porsche, Porsche. Because you eat a lot of borsch. I, I have been known to drink a lot of that. [00:05:40] Borsch chew a lot. I don’t even know. Cold [00:05:44] Joe: beets. No idea how you even IIB that material. [00:05:48] OG: Yes. [00:05:48] Joe: Yeah. [00:05:49] OG: Mainline it. [00:05:50] Joe: This piece says, amid all the joy and cheer or the, the end of the year brings the holidays, can make a hectic and expensive time purchasing gifts for loved ones, making travel plans, attending parties, and enjoying the multitude of festive celebrations and events that crop up can end up putting a strain on one’s finances and detracting from the positive spirit of the season. [00:06:09] Man, I, I just did this the other day, og, I mean, just, I ran to Target. To get some stuff for a holiday party that we were attending. And on the way home, I’m like, oh, it’s the, I’m, I’m gonna go get a peppermint drink. Yes. And uh, and a muffin, peppermint [00:06:25] OG: mocha latte. [00:06:26] Joe: Yeah. And I would’ve never bought either one of those things. [00:06:29] And I walk out and I’ve got the holiday season in my heart. And like a $14 bill from just a coffee and a muffin. Okay. And, and it’s just this little bit of extra holiday spending. I wouldn’t have even spent that. Oh, you’re fine. Had I don’t be a great, not done buy the [00:06:46] OG: peppermint mocha latte for God’s sake. [00:06:49] Alright, well [00:06:49] Joe: then how do you hold the budget [00:06:50] OG: together, og? Make more money [00:06:55] Joe: and scene. I can’t do better. I can’t, I can’t celebrate. Insert your preferred holiday here this year because I’m gonna be on the computer selling feet pics again. Again, [00:07:09] Doug: because this year it’s gonna finally work. There’s always money in the banana stand. [00:07:14] OG: I mean, look, if your budget is snug. It doesn’t support a peppermint mocha latte during the holiday season. I agree. You shouldn’t have it. And if you’re going to, then you gotta like lop off the three dozen eggs you were gonna buy instead for your one equal to one drink outta the grocery budget or something. [00:07:32] But on the other side of it, the whole David Bach latte factor thing, if you think that you’re not reaching your goals because you bought a pepper mocha latte this week. That’s also probably not true. So I don’t know. I feel like you have to give yourself a lot of grace around. All times of the year, but especially now, like, yeah, but I think you got a budget duck and not have a freaking pepper drink. [00:07:55] Not at all. [00:07:56] Joe: But I love, who’s the guest of ours that said, a budget is not a fence around all the things you can’t do like Grinch. It’s making sure that you enjoy all the stuff that you can do and that you’re mindful about what goes inside that fence. And before something goes inside that fence, actually spend a little time going is the peppermint. [00:08:13] MOA latte going to make my holiday season. What about [00:08:16] OG: just having a fudge factor? I mean, you can sit there and bust out your envelope system real quick to see how much is in the peppermint mocha latte. I think some people, they have [00:08:24] Joe: to. [00:08:24] OG: I [00:08:25] Joe: think there’s definitely [00:08:25] OG: some people that need [00:08:26] Joe: to. If that’s the [00:08:27] OG: case, then that’s the case. [00:08:28] Yeah, you have to. But for me, the peppermint [00:08:29] Joe: mocha latte added nothing. The reason I was complaining about it. Use that as an example. [00:08:34] OG: 40 grams of sugar and probably 1600 calories to your daily allotment. [00:08:39] Joe: I had a nice, nice sugar high going after that. I felt like Jim Gaffigan in that joke. ’cause they’re handing me the buffet. [00:08:45] I’m like, so do I eat this or just slap it on my ass? ’cause that’s where it’s going. There are lots of tips that people have. Number one is if, if you haven’t figured out how you’re going to travel yet, either during the holiday season or after you’re not traveling, you’re not, ’cause the ticket right now is $87,000. [00:09:04] OG: Yeah. A couple weeks ago, my boys played football in Texas. It’s a big thing Ev, everybody has heard the, heard the stories of this. It’s big everywhere, but in particular in Texas and the playoff timeframe in Texas literally goes six weeks. It goes from the second week or the. Basically the second Saturday of November through the Saturday before Christmas. [00:09:25] So our state championship games for our high schools are this Saturday, well Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. But anyway, this weekend. So we didn’t plan anything because the boys were doing really well in school, like really well on their football team. And you know, you just, you don’t know what this season’s gonna hold. [00:09:40] Unfortunately, they lost to playoff games. So they were out and we said, let’s go do something for Thanksgiving. Right. Alex is a senior, it’s his last Thanksgiving week at home. Together until next year when he gets home from college for a week. But anyways, let’s go do something. And so we looked up Disney and Disney. [00:09:55] Disney was literally, I’m paraphrasing what it said, but it said something basically like, yeah man, you, you wanna come next week? How much you got? [00:10:09] Talk to us about that unlimited American Express card because I think we’re gonna push the boundaries of the definition of unlimited. Oh boy. Yeah, if you haven’t, uh, neat. We didn’t go to Disney Moral of the story here, but if you haven’t figured out how you’re traveling for the holiday season, this, uh, quite yet, uh, you’re driving. [00:10:27] That’s how you’re getting there. ’cause uh, yeah, airfare is insane right now. [00:10:31] Joe: Well, I think this one actually applies throughout the year. Try traveling during non-peak times. Like, uh, you know, Cheryl and I, our anniversary is just before Thanksgiving. So we’ve started celebrating in Detroit at our favorite hotel in downtown Detroit the few days before, and then we come home on Saturday. [00:10:47] So you saw Thanksgiving weekend, all the videos of all the nastiness at different airports. Mm-hmm. I saw people in Dallas on a video. Cars were, it was like a parking lot trying to get around those little clover leafs. People were, were exiting the car and just running up the ramp, letting whoever was dropping them off. [00:11:06] Just figure it out how to get outta that thing while they went in. Yeah. We avoided all of that by going to Detroit a week earlier ’cause we had some flexibility. Mm-hmm. And then. Coming home. Coming home a day, early Saturday. Plus then we had Sunday to kind of relax and get back into the swing of things. [00:11:22] And you also [00:11:23] OG: avoided it ’cause you flew private on two of the legs. But, uh, that’ll, [00:11:27] Joe: that’ll, that’s exactly, we did have a chauffeur, his name was, uh. OG gs, we called him. We’re like, OG Gs, here’s, here’s my bag. And by the way, while I’m at it, let me take all the stuff that’s in the suitcase compartment and make sure it’s all over the runway. [00:11:44] I’ll do that for you too. [00:11:46] OG: Yes, that really expensive jar of cleaning supplies. I’m gonna pour that out. You don’t. You don’t need that. [00:11:51] Joe: Well, pour is really the wrong term. It’s more, I’m gonna chuck it and make sure the lid comes off. [00:11:56] OG: Make sure it bounces off the tarmac and cracks the bottle. [00:11:59] Joe: Yeah. That’s how, I don’t know if you know that, Doug. [00:12:01] That’s how you thank Jevs when he flies you private. [00:12:05] Doug: Oh no, I didn’t do any of that. Be like, this isn’t my stuff. [00:12:08] OG: I need to get to my stuff. Where’s my stuff? My stuff must be under this stuff. I don’t need this stuff at all. Zing. Okay. I [00:12:15] Joe: do remember to defend, my honor, I do remember Jevs saying, Hey, move that thing. [00:12:19] And I didn’t realize it was an open container. I thought it was a closed container. [00:12:22] OG: Yeah. It really wasn’t. And it was open and I, yeah. Made a mess of it. [00:12:25] Joe: But anyway, yes, no harm. We were going to take off from Dallas. And one miraculous angel named OG said, how about if I fly to Texarkana and pick you up? [00:12:36] Doug: You told me you were doing an angel flight. I didn’t realize it was for Joe. That’s right. [00:12:41] OG: No, I’m the angel. [00:12:43] Joe: Yeah, he’s the, just to be clear, oh, I see’s, just to be [00:12:45] OG: clear, the angel is here. [00:12:47] Joe: No, it’s not one of those flights, not one of those. I’m just. Taken Joe and Cheryl to Dallas to catch their plane, but, but seriously still coming in the week before. [00:12:57] Yeah. We were able to avoid those. Yeah. But for a [00:12:59] OG: lot of people, that’s not realistic. Maybe you can cut down on the Saturday versus Sunday thing, but you know, I, I was talking to a client, it [00:13:06] Joe: says, it just says, if possible, [00:13:08] OG: yeah, if possible. I was talking to a client and he loves to travel to Europe and, and I said, uh oh, you guys going to Europe this summer? [00:13:13] And he laughed and he goes, Europe, why would we go to Europe? And I’m, I’m thinking, you know, you get one of those. You’re like, oh crap, am I talking to the wrong guy? What? I thought, I swear to God, we talked about Europe all the time and I said, oh, I thought you guys like to go to Europe. He goes, yeah, we go all the time. [00:13:27] And I said, oh, I thought, I mean, isn’t the summer one to go? He goes, no. That’s when all you idiots with kids go. We go in September when all you guys are back in school, no one’s there. I’m like, oh, wow. Yeah. [00:13:39] Joe: See that’s the ticket. Once Nick and Autumn left home, that became our MO two man. The shoulder seasons. [00:13:44] Mm, yeah. Fantastic. [00:13:45] OG: Yeah. April and September, right? Yeah. If you can, absolutely. [00:13:48] Joe: Back to the point that we were making earlier though, when you said give yourself a little grace. Okay. The peppermint mocha latte had, I really wanted it. Instead of just going, oh, this, this might, Nope. Didn’t do anything that I really wanted. [00:14:01] I like this tip. Leverage debt mindfully. And I think people forget, especially during the holiday season, that a credit card is a debt instrument. That this, mm-hmm. This is me using OPP, other people’s purchasing. Power. OPPP. OPPP. [00:14:18] OG: Yes. [00:14:19] Joe: Using their O-P-P-P-O-G-P-P. [00:14:22] OG: No. [00:14:22] Joe: Using their funds to get somewhere. So especially this time of year, man, if you’re doing anything to celebrate the holidays, that involves debt. [00:14:33] I think you gotta find a way to put on the brakes and Yeah, don’t do that. Think about that. Yeah. Our friend, Andrea Warwick, who’s been on the show a few times, says, use free rewards and cash back this time of year. So knowing that it is that time of year, if you’ve got cash back stored up, let’s take that money out and use that to buy the gifts. [00:14:51] Mm-hmm. And if you think about that OG throughout the year, I’ve done that in past years. When I was helping myself get outta debt, I would try to pick up extra hours and do side hustles. And I would put that money in a separate account because that was gonna be my holiday money. And I gotta tell you, that helped a ton. [00:15:08] It helped a ton to have a fun, not only a fun holiday season where I spent money, but also knowing, having some pride because I worked my ass off for that. And I’m spending it in a way that mindfully, I really wanted to, [00:15:23] OG: I’ve got a fun activity that I do in the fall, and uh, for as many years as I’ve been doing it, I take all of the proceeds that come from that. [00:15:32] And it all goes into a separate account. And, um, we used to get checks for the activity and I would literally have the checks piled up and then go cash them and bring the cash home and go, this is the Christmas budget. Now it’s all electronic, of course, but still, I have the electronic payments go into a separate account and that’s the family Christmas budget. [00:15:48] In some years it’s better than others and I think it’s a real easy way to delineate the budget. And to your point, that’s where your mocha lattes come from and you don’t have to stress it. It’s like you can live on the cash diet out of that account. I. If you have a side hustle and you go, well, this is my budget for travel, or this is my budget for this. [00:16:07] I would also add on the credit card point thing, you and I were talking about points the other day and about how like there’s useful ways to do it and stupid ways and that sort of thing. First of all. Any sort of excess cash reward, bonus, whatever you get is free, right? There’s, there’s probably a better way to implement it some if you work through it, but there’s a lot of these companies, capital One, American Airlines has it. [00:16:29] American Express has it. We’re on your app. You can literally sit there and like scroll through, like where are all the bonuses this month? And go, oh, well I’m gonna, you know, I’m buying the wife some makeup from Sephora. I’m gonna hit the Sephora button, and you have to opt into these things. Or if you’re gonna shop online, shop through the portal. [00:16:45] Of Capital One or shop through the portal of American Airlines and you get 10, 20 x the points for using their system and the price is the same. So if you already know you’re gonna go shop at such and such a store and you’re gonna do it online, just check your credit card places to see if they have a reward system or a bonus system, I should say in advance. [00:17:03] It takes 10 minutes to sit there playing on your phone. Anyway, just open up the Amex app and play there. Instead of Facebook [00:17:10] Joe: we have with our American Express cards that you and I have for Stacking Benjamins. When we travel, we use Avis. We get bonus points because we use Avis. If we use Uber, we get bonus points there. [00:17:20] I know that through the American Airlines card because in Texarkana you can fly any airline you want as long as it’s American. I. Right. You get tons of choices as long as it includes American, by the way, you can fly anywhere in the world you want as long as it’s to Dallas. Lot of flexibility there too. [00:17:35] But the American Airlines card has, uh, has a dining program that I never pay any attention to, but when we go out to dinner, we’re in a different city and we all of a sudden on my statement will say, you got a credit because you ate it. You know this one restaurant that happened to be double points. Yep. [00:17:53] Wow. Paying just a little bit attention to that. Get your kids involved in the process. I love this. This is some advice from Howard Kin from uh, deck.com. The holidays are one time a year when your children might be motivated to think about budgeting. Kids love holiday parties and trips, so show them your holiday budget. [00:18:09] Ask for their input. How would they spend. This limited amount of money on gifts for the family on a party, on travel. Not only can you save a few bucks, but you also teach your children lessons that are literally invaluable. We started doing this when our kids were about, um, fifth grade. We started doing this. [00:18:24] OG: Mm-hmm. [00:18:25] Joe: What was great was getting them involved. They would help us then, you know, make food to take places, which was fun. The family in the kitchen fun for a while, and then, and then we would, we would, uh, so somebody has to do the dishes, then all of a sudden they’re gone. We’d also think about, you know, they, they’d think about what games to play and it was, it would always make the holiday season pretty fun, getting everybody involved. [00:18:49] OG: I do find it interesting to tell the boys. Especially the boys. Caroline doesn’t quite get it, although she’s getting there. But the boys, uh, when they have to buy gifts for their siblings, you know, will take ’em out and they’ll shop or whatever, and they’re like, oh man, this sweatshirt’s really awesome. [00:19:02] William will love it, dah. I’m like, cool. How much is it? It’s a hundred dollars. And I’m like, Hmm. It’s a big gift. Are you sure that’s what you wanna get? Your kid, your brother? Because you know, how much did you bring with you? You know, I, I think it helps ’em appreciate because they happen to [00:19:18] Doug: know your brother’s not spending that much on you. [00:19:20] OG: Yeah. I think it just helps them appreciate what the stuff is. You know, that they’re like, I want a Lulu sweater. It’s like, all right, cool, but dude, they’re $80. Go look at that price. Yeah. How bad you want it. [00:19:31] Joe: Well, and that’s a piece of advice here from em, Rita Chowder, who says, create a detailed budget. I think especially for people that, that are just on the fence, you know, they’re not envelope budget tight anymore. [00:19:44] But they’re just emerging. For that. To go back to the detail budget just for this one month could be really helpful. Also, part of EM’S advice. Automate your savings beforehand. Make sure everything is saved for, right. That’s almost, oh gee, the anti budget, the Paula budget, which is mm-hmm. Get all the savings done. [00:20:03] And then if it’s in my account, it’s fair game. If it’s not debt, yeah. It’s in my account. I’m good there. We have, uh, a couple more. I’ll just do very quickly, set limits and save ahead of time. If you overspend and carry debt balances beyond the holiday season in your past, it’s time to get ahead of that inevitability. [00:20:19] So set limits ahead of time. Uh, stick to your list is another one. Although I like having some flexibility in the list so that if I want the peppermint mocha latte, I can do that. But I think the one I wanna end on is consider the opportunity cost. I think this is where we get it wrong, og. We just don’t spend enough time thinking, I see this Barbie Dream house in front of me. [00:20:40] What is that gonna cost me in January, in February and in March if I’m putting that on my credit card? [00:20:46] OG: Yeah. I mean, and the other piece that I would also kinda share with people is they think about, especially gift giving for younger people, you know, the, the joke of the kids have more fun with the boxes than they do the stuff in the boxes and the Barbie Dream House, it’s more fun the box than the actual freaking dream house type deal. [00:21:04] I think there’s a real big balancing act there between, you know, like the, the too much stuff and like, I’m gonna be the, the smart uncle who always gives money in the 5 29 plan that’s like better for their future, but they never get anything cool. You know? And there’s a balancing act there, but, but just a anecdotal story. [00:21:23] We started a very small 5 29 for my. Nephew who is the first kind of, you know, nephew in the family, and then our niece, uh, first niece on the other side of the family. And it was $50 a month, which is not zero, uh, undoubtedly. And, uh, there were several months, in fact probably plenty of years in there. We didn’t contribute to it, but we pretty consistently did that $50 a month. [00:21:46] And when both of these kids went to college, so roughly 18 years of $50 a month, they had about 12, 12, $13,000 in a 5 29. I’m not saying that people are giving their nieces and nephews $600 gifts every year, but I bet there’s a balancing act of saying, Hey, instead of doing, you know, a hundred dollars holiday gift and a hundred dollars birthday gift, maybe I’m gonna give you a $50 birthday and holiday gift, and I’m gonna put 150 away in the future and that’s gonna pay better dividends. [00:22:18] And we all know that. But I would also submit to you that the kid who’s three or four or seven doesn’t know the difference between a $200 annual gift and a $50 annual gift. So make sure that when you’re giving, you’re not just, uh, checking a box for yourself, if that makes sense. Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I wanna make sure that I’m giving this really cool thing that everyone knows was from me. [00:22:42] I think it’s far cooler to tell your 18-year-old nephew, oh hey, by the way, you don’t know this and neither does your dad, because we did this, you know, a long time ago, but we’ve got your first year of college covered. That was a way easier thing for us to do in terms of cash flow and budgeting and you know. [00:23:00] And it was a much, much, much larger impact than any sort of holiday, birthday, Christmas, whatever gifts that we could give him over those 18 years. [00:23:10] Joe: And how much does the other one, the status gift, backfire anyway, like I’ve been in those rooms where somebody’s like, look at what I got them and nobody’s impressed. [00:23:18] You know what I mean? Mean it’s the movie [00:23:18] OG: before Christmases. I mean, it’s an old holiday movie where he like gives everybody X boxes. Vince Bond. He’s like an Xbox. Whoa. He’s like, how did you keep that under the $10 family budget? And he’s like, $10. Oops. He told me he was 10. He’s like, he’s like this, you know, highfalutin lawyer or something like that. [00:23:36] He is got all this money, and for him buying an Xbox for his nephews is no big deal. You know? It’s like, oh yeah, I’ll be the cool one. But still be careful of that. [00:23:45] Joe: We will link to this piece in our show notes at stacky Benjamins dot com. Of course, we dive more into the topics we discussed on the show during our weekly newsletter, the 2 0 1 stacky Benjamins dot com slash 2 0 1 to sign up for that. [00:23:59] We also have discussions about this type of stuff in Moms basement, which is the place where we all help each other. Stack Benjamins at Stacking Benjamins dot com slash basement takes you to the Facebook group. We’d love to. Have you come down to the basement, say hello, and uh, hang out with us. Or get the newsletter if you’d like to read about this stuff coming up next one, 29-year-old, a garage full of cars, A monster mansion of a house, a piano owned by Sir Elton John previously. [00:24:32] How does he get all this stuff at 29? That’s in our TikTok minute, and Jim has a question for us that’s in the second half of today’s show. But before we get there, Doug, uh, what’s. What’s going on in today’s date in history? [00:24:46] Doug: Well, I’ll tell you. Hey, there’s stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug gotta tell you. [00:24:51] Nothing is more fun than when Joe starts telling olden time stories about, oh, come on Christmas, way back when. Hey, hey Joe. Remember that time that neighbor, kid of yours invented the abacus? That punk kid was such a know-it-all, or how about when you witnessed the creation of the Gregorian calendar? [00:25:09] Actually, I know the guy who stole that first calendar. He got 12 months for that. Wait for it, but I, I’m sure old guys like you remember those Christmas specials the first time they appeared on televisions. On today’s date back in 1966, the original How the Grinch Stole Christmas TV Special made its debut featuring Boris Karloff. [00:25:36] However, there’s another famous voice actor in the classic that brought in tons of Benjamins for Dr. Seuss and the makers of the TV show. This voice sang the now famous deep song, your Mean One, Mr. Grinch. The actor’s name is Thorough Ravenscroft, and while you may not know that name, you certainly know the name of the famous breakfast cereal character. [00:26:00] He also played in commercials. Which character did Ravenscroft voice? I’ll be back right after I go see how many Rs there are in the word. Great. [00:26:21] Hey there, stackers. I’m Wheaties destroyer and the guy always on a milk run. Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. I love the old Christmas cartoons. Lucy snapping the ball away from Charlie Brown, Charlie’s Christmas tree. Which is nearly as sad as this one here in the basement, uh, Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, and of course, how the Grinch stole Christmas. [00:26:41] Today’s question, which popular character did The Man Who Sang Your A Mean One, Mr. Grinch play in commercials for a popular company? Well, not only could thorough Ravenscroft sing, but he could also say they’re great because he was the voice of Tony the Tiger, and now back to OG and Joe. Because they’re great. [00:27:07] Joe: That is a deep voice. I never put those two together. Doug, [00:27:10] Doug: another fun fact there is that. Dr. Seuss himself. Theodore Geisel, I think his name was, he didn’t want Boris Karloff to play The Grinch ’cause he thought he would make it too scary. That’s funny. And, and it was pretty damn scary as it was. [00:27:26] Joe: Voice ended up being classic. [00:27:28] Yeah, just absolute classic. Just perfect. And he doesn’t really play the Grinch as much as he’s, I mean, he puts a little end into this. He’s just narrating the tale. [00:27:36] Doug: Right. Well, there’s more fun facts about that, Joe. So. He actually just kind of narrated the whole thing. But what the producers did after the fact is when he was speaking as the Grinch, they took out all, all of the high tones, the high notes in his voice, so it sounded even deeper in Gravell, or he didn’t change it himself when he was reading for it, but they did it in post so that the grinch’s voice is a little bit more scary and a little deeper than, uh, his normal speaking voice. [00:28:03] Joe: Just like Steve does with us in post Yeah. Fixes everything that we do here. Hey, time for the TikTok minute. This is the part of the show where we sign, we, we sign, we shine a light on a TikTok creator who’s either doing something brilliant or air quotes brilliant. Uh, this gentleman on TikTok I saw the other day, guys. [00:28:22] He’s got this monster mansion now. He’s gonna be walking us through the mansion and you’re not going to see it, but I’m gonna tell you right now, just imagine how big and beautiful these rooms are, because how he did it. Is mind blowing, and I think especially during the holiday season, this is a real gift to all of us When somebody at the tender age of 29 can share with us how they ended up in this just beautiful, beautiful property. [00:28:50] Let’s give it a listen. [00:28:52] TikTok: I am 29 years old. This is where I live. This is a tour of my house and how I got here. Come on in. Uh, this is the foyer that, believe it or not, Elton John’s, uh, piano for 1984. Uh, this is the master bedroom, the bed. That’s way too big for me. Oh, you’re gonna love this. This is where I do most of my reading. [00:29:11] I got a walk in shower, uh, and then let’s show you in the backyard. I moved in when I was 26. 27 years old. This is my backyard. This is the pool. This is the last piece I’ll show you before. I’ll tell you how I got it all. This is my full size kitchen, a garage full of cars. I got the Jeep, I got the Palisade doing pretty well, asking how did I amass all of this wealth by the time I hit 29? [00:29:33] The economy’s bad. Things are hard. Crypto, did you get in crypto? Did you get in it? Did you get, and the honest truth, the honest answer is I just never moved. This is all my parents’ stuff. So, I mean, if you want a lesson from me, just like make sure your parents do good. [00:29:55] Joe: I was wondering the whole time. I watched that and I, and I bought that thing the whole way. I was like, I just gotta know how this kid, this baby face kid got all this amazing stuff. [00:30:06] Doug: I wanted to throat punch him as soon as I heard him say foyer. [00:30:12] You say that, man, you’re in a deep hole to climb out of. [00:30:16] Joe: You think that might’ve been his goal at the end? Not cheerly? Just make sure your parents do good. That’s all you gotta do. I mean, seriously. Oh gee. Why? Why spend all this money yourself when your parents could take care of it for you? [00:30:28] OG: I saw a video that was like interviewing college kids and it says, what is your biggest financial flex? [00:30:34] And they, they were all like, yeah, my dad’s rich. Yeah, my mom has a bunch of money. Yeah. [00:30:40] Joe: It was just like, all this stuff is like, thought it was yours. [00:30:43] OG: Anyway, [00:30:44] Joe: thanks to Jane for sending that to me. By the way, uh, if you’ve got a TikTok minute, I need to watch Joe at Stacking Benjamins dot com and uh, we’ll see about adding that to the show. [00:30:54] Let’s do maybe my favorite segment of the day time when some stackers said, you know what? We better call Saul. See, hi NOG. This is the part of the show where we help a stacker in need. Get their money house in order, and especially during the holiday season. We’re always happy to help. Stacking Benjamins dot com slash voicemail by the way, gets you there. [00:31:16] We got two voicemails. I wanna go to one, uh, from the corrections department, but first, let’s help out stacker Jim. Hey Jim. What’s going on man? [00:31:25] caller: Hey guys, Jim from Wisconsin coming back at you. I have a few questions about pensions. I have a pension that does not increase with inflation, so the value is stuck in time and current dollars. [00:31:34] Do I include the pension in my net worth statement, and if so, at. Second, how do I include pensions payments in my retirement income plan when the value in real dollars decreases over time? Finally, I have a mortgage. All things being equal. Is there an argument for not paying off the mortgage before retirement? [00:31:50] Since both my pension and my mortgage, we stuck in today’s dollars and instead just let the mortgage run in term. Thanks. Stay fresh cheese. [00:32:01] Joe: Uh, one of my favorite things, Jim, before we go to your question, was. When your Green Bay Packers played My Detroit Lions, you had all the cheese heads. And then you had one guy in a Lion’s, uh, jersey. Did you see this? Doug? A guy in a lion’s jersey that a grater on his head cheese grater. [00:32:17] Doug: Yeah. Yep. And then recently there was a guy in the stands who was actually grating real cheese in the stands. [00:32:23] OG: Really? [00:32:23] Doug: Wow. [00:32:24] OG: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Making a quesadilla, I suppose. [00:32:27] Joe: Oh, yu yummy. Uh, og. How do you count the pension now? The pension he says. End quote, real dollars is shrinking, which means that as inflation goes up. His, he’s not getting a cost living adjustment, so that number stays the same for that and for his mortgage. [00:32:43] How does he think about them? [00:32:44] OG: Well, I think there’s two things here. Firstly, if the pension has some sort of terminal value, then I think it’s a balance sheet item. Meaning if you get hit by a bus, does your spouse get a lump sum? Do they get some sort of benefit? Or does the pension end when you end? If the pension ends when you end? [00:33:02] There’s really not a balance sheet net worth value to it. I think you could argue that there is some, if you wanna make your numbers look nice, but for whom are they looking nice for? I just, I don’t, I don’t know the purpose of that other than just remembering that you have a pension in case you have some health issues or something and somebody needs to remember that you’re supposed to get this check. [00:33:24] So I don’t know that I would have it on my balance sheet as an asset. The second piece of this is how do we account for it in your retirement income? I mean, you’re accounting for it. It’s, I get $2,000 a month and it’s not going anywhere, period. Full stop. Then in your cashflow plan, it’s $2,000. And you’re right, if you think about the slope of the line of expenses, it’s gonna pass that number and you’re gonna have to fund the difference. [00:33:47] Now, hopefully there’s excess right now that you can use to save and invest for the the gap that’s gonna occur later in later in life, right? If your pension is 2000 a month, but your expenses are a thousand, you’ve got a thousand dollars a month left over, right? Save and invest that thousand so that when the pension is still 2000 and the expenses are 3000, which will happen in 25 years from now, you have a bucket of money to draw that difference from. [00:34:13] I’m using some simplistic terms here, but you get the idea. And then the third question was about your mortgage. I think this is a miss that most people, I don’t think most people have thought through this yet, and it’s not until you get into it that you realize, oh, this actually never goes away. Your mortgage will never go away. [00:34:32] And what I mean by that is whatever your payment is today, whatever your payment was when you first bought your house, you go back and say, my payment was $1,500. Taxes, insurance, mortgage, whatever. That insurance and tax number is gonna increase and it’s gonna increase, generally speaking, at a rate that’s equal to by the time you pay your house off the same payment that your house was when you first started it. [00:34:54] So as you look at your mortgage payment today, and it consists of principal interest, taxes, and insurance, if you have it all rolled together, your housing costs, right? The cost to have your home principal and interest taxes and insurance, and maybe you pay that all in one payment or maybe you line item out separately. [00:35:09] That number I submit to you will be the same number in 25 years from now. Even if you’re like, well, no, I’m gonna pay my house off in 15. I know. But the taxes and insurance will continue to increase to the point that it becomes the same number. I think it’s a little bit of a fallacy to say that the house payment’s gonna be the same from now until the end of time. [00:35:29] The principal and interest payment, [00:35:30] Joe: yes, [00:35:30] OG: we’ll be the same from now until the end of, [00:35:32] Joe: but those taxes and insurance are gonna continue to skyrocket. But [00:35:36] OG: if, yeah, if you expand your horizon a little bit and say, well, by housing costs are taxes and insurance included in that, they’re gonna increase, you know, with inflation as time goes on. [00:35:45] So. I would caution having that as a known, known and say, well, well maybe it’s gonna increase with inflation. All that to say is question is, should I pay my mortgage off or not? And that really that, you know, that evaluation is gonna come down to what the interest rate is, what the capital requirements are that you could deploy elsewhere, all your other cash flows and. [00:36:06] And your needs in terms of future spending and that sort of thing, if you have the ability to, let’s say your mortgage is at 2% right now, I think there’s a really strong case for keeping the mortgage for a really long time. On the other hand, my mortgage is at 2.5 and I’ve very publicly said I’m aggressively trying to pay it off, even though the math says it’s not a good idea because I want the freedom from that, from that payment. [00:36:31] That’s my circumstances. Mine are different than yours. So I think there’s a little bit more to unpack there around the pay, the house off or not generally in favor of not having a mortgage payment. I think, Joe, you’ve got the research to suggest that people who are retired financially independent, without debt generally have happier retirements than those that do have debt. [00:36:50] So. I like to make the recipe of the same cake that I like every time. Like I don’t wanna put my own ingredients in it. Somebody’s made this recipe and they go, this is the really good cake recipe. I’m probably just gonna follow that advice, so gun to my head. I’d probably wanna pay the house off, but I need a little bit more info. [00:37:08] Joe: Yeah, I have had times where I’m just, you know, I’m doing the math, so I keep the debt. I’m thinking about, we just paid off a car payment that was at negligible interest that I took out on purpose. I totally took it out because I didn’t wanna spend all the cash on that, and I did it to play the math game. [00:37:26] It’s funny how happy I got though when that debt was paid off, even though I had worked the math and it made logical sense. I was happier when it was done. I think that just the human condition is we’re much happier paying off debt. And to your point, all the research suggests that, I [00:37:41] OG: mean, I just like to use when people have these like absolutes, then I also want to take that to the nth degree and just see if it’s still in my mind. [00:37:51] Take investing, for example. And you say our stock’s better than bonds. We can look at any period of time, any sector, any economy. And go, yes, we all agree that that’s a thing. And so if you look at it and say, well, it’s better to have, you know, if you can borrow money at 2%, but you let it sit in your savings account at five, that’s a better use of debt, right? [00:38:13] The people will say that, and then I’ll go, all right, well, I got a thing here from Bank of America, talked about a couple weeks ago. They’re gonna give me 25 grand at 0% for the next year. Should I wrestle up a bunch of those things? Get ’em all in my high yield savings account and arbitrage the difference. [00:38:30] I mean, my savings account’s paying four and a half. I can get Bank of America to give me 25 grand. I bet I can get Chase to do it too. Maybe American Express, maybe Citibank, I might be able to get a hundred thousand dollars and park it in a savings account for the next year at five. You know, four and a half percent. [00:38:45] It doesn’t cost me any interest. Why? Why wouldn’t I do that? And I think there’s some people who go, yeah, it’s a great idea, but then you push comes to shove, you go, well wait a second. Huh. That’s gonna require payment, huh? Well, yeah, but arbitra, you know what I mean? It’s not as clean as just the math. [00:39:00] That’s my point with all of it. It’s like you can go borrow a whole bunch of money at low interest rate. I mean, it’s doable. Why don’t we all do it? There’s a balancing act there and it’s a personal situation where you are. And also to your point, Joe, the human condition of how you’re thinking about money, like what’s on the horizon for you is different than me and that’s gonna inform how I behave with this sort of stuff. [00:39:22] I’m with you. I’ve got a car payment also that’s at a 0.9 and it’s a great deal, but I could tell you every freaking month I’m like, God, this sucks. I can’t wait to off. [00:39:34] Joe: And you know what’s funny? The second it went away. Uh, Sheryl and I kept saving it into our next car. Yeah. In which we got this next car fun. [00:39:41] And it feels totally different. It feels awesome. Yeah. ’cause I’m like, okay, this is cool. Let’s see how many months in a row I can string this together before I, I buy the next vehicle, [00:39:50] OG: another Range Rover for the Salt Sea Highs. Yeah. That’s, [00:39:55] Joe: that’s, that’s the unofficial name for my Volkswagen Tiguan. [00:39:59] OG: Yes. [00:40:00] It’s the Saw Sea High Range Rover. It’s by Range [00:40:02] Joe: Rover. It’s the only Range Rover ever made that has a Volkswagen logo. [00:40:06] OG: Yeah, [00:40:07] Joe: I mean, it’s one of a kind. Thanks for that question. And by the way, that question also, og, to pivot back to the net worth statement, you know, how do you calculate the pension on the net worth? [00:40:17] Dunno that that it, I mean, in truth, I kind of think that the net worth statement is a little bit of a vanity metric. And certainly you work for a company for a number of years, you wanna be able to show that somehow, but. It just when you die, well, to [00:40:34] OG: whom are you showing [00:40:35] Joe: it? Right. When you die and, and whoever is on it with you, if you’ve got a spouse on it with you or a child, whoever, whoever the contingent person is on your pension, if you’re allowed to have one, uh, when they die, it just goes away. [00:40:47] Yeah. So it’s not like an asset that you’re passing on into your family. You can pass it on to one other person maybe, but then it’s gone. Yeah. So it really is not [00:40:54] OG: Yeah. There’s zero terminal value. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like it’s an options contract. [00:40:59] Joe: Let’s, exactly. Yeah. Great analogy. Let’s move to the corrections department, where back, uh, few weeks ago we were chatting with our friend Paula Pant, and Paula was in New York City and we were amazed if you guys remember that she knew the colors of the University of Michigan and of Michigan State and. [00:41:20] Well, she did call it Blue and Maze instead of Maze and Blue, and she got green, white. Correct. We were just amazed that she did that. And then she said she Googled whether New York had a football team and she said, yes, we have one. And I said, no, you have two football teams in New York. Well, tj, TJ said, nay, nay, nay. [00:41:44] Let’s, uh, let’s listen to the stacker, tj. [00:41:48] caller: Good evening, gentlemen. Uh, bills mafia here. Just wanted to shout out episode SB 1592. Minute three. There is only one team in New York, and that’s the Buffalo Bills bill, bills baby [00:42:06] Joe: there, and there is only one team, tj, those teams are in New Jersey. [00:42:10] OG: Yeah, I believe that, uh, what we were referencing was the greater New York metroplex. [00:42:15] Well, sure. Not the state, but leave [00:42:17] Joe: it to Bill’s nation. Yeah, I, to remind us, very accurate, there is one team, [00:42:22] OG: it’s like how many football teams are in Dallas? Technically zero. The Cowboys are in there. [00:42:28] Doug: There’s really only one team, professional team playing under the banner of the NFL that’s playing real football. [00:42:36] Good point. The Jets [00:42:37] Joe: and the Giants are kind of, uh, if you’re a Jets fan this year. Or a Giants fan? Oh, Lord, this year. Just this year. If you’re a Jets fan. Yeah, right. [00:42:46] OG: If you’ve been alive since the Jets have been a franchise, [00:42:49] Joe: I got halfway through a Manning cast, and I noticed a guy tapping Eli on the back shoulder asking if he wants to come back to the Giants and maybe help out a little bit. [00:42:58] OG: Man, it seemed like his career was really short. I don’t know why. It just, I mean, I think, what did he play 12 years or something? He played for quite a while. Yeah. It just seemed to me like. He had a lot of, he’s had a lot still in the tank and just kinda, he retired it seemed to me the same time that Peyton did. [00:43:14] And Peyton started, you know, seven, eight years before and so started sooner. Yeah. But heck, they’re not even asking Eli [00:43:19] Joe: Manning. They’re going back to Phil Sims. [00:43:22] OG: They’ll take anybody, Phil, Doug could start at quarterback. Don’t take [00:43:25] Joe: that. They’ll take, they’re like, Hey, I’m very athletic. Uh, thanks for that TJ. [00:43:31] And, uh, Bill’s Nation, a friend of mine said that if the universe, if the universe is, uh. I’m gonna get in trouble with a lot of people saying this, but he’s like, if the universe really works the way it should, it should be the Lions versus Buffalo Bills this year. [00:43:45] Doug: Absolutely. But the script writers at the NFL want the Eagles and the, uh, chiefs, Kansas [00:43:51] Joe: City Chiefs. [00:43:52] So that’s what it’s gonna be. We will see. I also love, by the way, how when my Detroit Lions. Really started winning. Like, you know, these commentators know what blows up on social media, so the number of naysayers right now going, oh, they’re just, they’re crazy. They’re gamblers. I don’t, I, I don’t love them. [00:44:07] Three weeks ago it was, it was in vogue to love them and now it’s in vogue to go. I think they’re a sham. Good times. [00:44:15] Doug: Well, it was all the, I think, I think, what was it? Five? Going for it. Five times on fourth down this last, the, you know, couple weeks. It’s like a Madden couple weeks ago. [00:44:24] OG: It’s like what you do when you play Madden with your Yeah, brother. [00:44:27] Like fourth and 22 for [00:44:29] Joe: my six. Yeah, we’re going for it. Doug sent us a great meme that I’ve shown everybody, and it’s Dan Campbell, the coach of the. Detroit Lions, people that aren’t football fans, the Detroit Lions play aggressively because their coach is very aggressive. And, um, Doug sent OG and I a meme. [00:44:48] Their coach, Dan Campbell doing the showcase showdown on the prices. Right. And he’s got the wheel that they spin, and the best you can come up with is a perfect dollar. He gets 95 cents on his first spin and goes, drew, I’m gonna spin again. [00:45:03] OG: Yeah, I didn’t get that and it took me a long time to figure that out. [00:45:07] I was like, don’t get it. Who is this guy? Really? It was so good. Did you ever [00:45:11] Doug: watch prices right when you were homesick from school? [00:45:15] OG: I got what game it was. I just didn’t understand. I didn’t put it together who it was and why. He’d be spinning again and sorry. [00:45:22] Joe: Wow. We need to have a convention, a Stacking Benjamins convention and workshop number one is gonna be the subtext of understanding Wicked. [00:45:30] That’ll be in room one. And then we go over to room two and it’s how to get Doug’s memes about the prices right. [00:45:37] Doug: I’ll be the only one in the wicked room, [00:45:40] Joe: and you guys will be in the other room. Oh, G’s in the other room. I’m out sipping on my peppermint latte that I truly didn’t want. All right, so what I do want is to say thank you to everybody who’s hung out with us. [00:45:52] Doug, you got it from here, man. What should we have learned on today’s show? [00:45:56] Doug: So what should we have learned today? First, take some advice from our headline. What’s the key to surviving the holiday season? Keep it all in perspective. Which would you rather do begin next year with momentum or struggling to keep up? [00:46:11] Debt is rarely worth it during the holidays if you can help it. Second, take some advice from our TikTok minute. If you live at home with mom and dad, you can avoid rent payments and become a viral sensation online. But the big lesson, listen to what Joe’s mom is actually talking about before going upstairs and yelling. [00:46:32] They’re great. She apparently is just getting ready for her colonoscopy. Man, that got weird in a hurry up there. And by, hold on, by up there. Lemme just clarify. By up there, I mean upstairs in the house. ’cause if I was referring to what we, you know, I mean, it would’ve been down there, don’t you think? Man? [00:46:54] It’s getting more awkward. [00:46:59] This show is the property of SB podcasts LLC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Saul Sea High. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. [00:47:19] Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:47:50] So what should we have learned today? They’re great. No, I’m kidding. First take some, scrap that. ’cause I do that at the end.
Leave a Reply