The Tax Triangle Most Investors Have Never Heard Of (SB1831)

Most people think about investing in terms of what to buy. Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, and CFP Anna Allem argue the more important question is where you put it. This week they break down the three-bucket tax triangle that could save you thousands in retirement, plus answer listener questions on Trump accounts, UTMAs, and how to pull together a home down payment when your money is locked up in all the wrong places.

In this episode:

The difference between pre-tax, brokerage, and tax-free investing and why you need all three, what the new Trump account actually does and who it makes sense for, how to build a home down payment when your assets are tied up in retirement accounts, and why flexibility in your tax strategy matters as much as the investments themselves.

Biggest takeaways:

Draw a triangle. Label each corner pre-tax, brokerage, and tax-free. Then draw your buckets to scale based on where your money actually sits. If one bucket dwarfs the others, that’s your problem to solve before you touch anything else.

The Trump account is not a traditional IRA, despite what the website implies. Money goes in after tax, grows tax deferred, and comes out taxable. For most people with a 529 and an UTMA already in place, keep going with what you have.

When your money is locked in retirement accounts and you need a down payment, the math has two sides. What does pulling it out cost you today in taxes and penalties, and what does it cost you in thirty years of lost compounding? Know both numbers before you decide.

Resources mentioned:

Episode 1808 on navigating medical bills and hospital assistance programs

The Stacking Benjamins scorecard: stackingbenjamins.com/scorecard

The Vault: stackingbenjamins.com/vault

Submit your question: stackingbenjamins.com/yelldownstairs

FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/stacker-q-and-a-with-anna-allem-1831

Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201

Enjoy!

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Doug’s Trivia

• Which scientist patented the process of pasteurization, the food-preservation method first applied to products like wine, beer, and milk?

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Better call Saul…Sehy & OG

• Thanks to Haley and Kirsten for calling in. If you have a question you’d like answered, see below. ⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇

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Other Mentions

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Join Us Wednesday

Tune in on Wednesday when we (attempt to) give you a 101-level crash course on investing in crypto. Barf bags may be needed (BYOBB).

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Written by: Kevin Bailey

Miss our last show? Listen here: The Best Money Advice We Wish We Knew at 20 (Live from Texas A&M – Texarkana) SB1830

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] Joe: I don’t think Anna seen the mug that I got in Greece last year. Check this out. No. 

[00:00:05] Anna: Oh, that’s cool. 

[00:00:06] Joe: It’s the beautiful temple to Poseidon, which is uh, just down the coast from Athens. And of course when you go there you have to get the mug. 

[00:00:16] Anna: It’s 

[00:00:16] Joe: very cool. I liked it. Yes, if you’re brand new here to the Stacky Benjamin Show.

[00:00:19] Joe: The reason why we show off the mugs is because we begin every Monday with a salute to our troops who have been working triple time lately. To make sure that we are all safe. So everybody raise your mugs on behalf of the men and women making podcasts in mom’s basement, the men and women around the world Stacking Benjamins.

[00:00:41] Joe: Here’s to you. Thank you so much. 

[00:00:42] Doug: Cheers. 

[00:00:43] opener: Cheers. 

[00:00:45] Joe: Now let’s all go stacks of S together, shall we? 

[00:00:48] opener: Hey, shake and bake.

[00:00:58] Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[00:01:11] Doug: I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Duggan. Today the star of the show is you. That’s right. CFB Anna Allen joins us for an. Extended visit again to help OG and Joe answer your questions on the DACA today. What is a Trump account and does it beat money in an UTMA account? And heck, what is an UTMA account anyways?

[00:01:33] Doug: And how do we accumulate money for a home down payment? Plus, OG and Anna will work a little overtime to keep teaching you more money. Basics today they’ll cover taxes. How do you pay less to the man and keep a great financial plan intact. You’ll know by the time we’re finished. And of course, no need to fret because I’m here and everything will be all right in the world because yours truly is ready to step up and share another helping of my world.

[00:02:02] Doug: Famous trivia and now. Three people who I’m fairly certain are only at the mics. To avoid dish duty upstairs, it’s Joe OG and Anna la la la.

[00:02:19] Joe: We definitely heard mom getting busy upstairs with the dishes. Time to record a podcast everyone. Hey, welcome back to another week of the Stacky Benjamin Show. I am Joe Saul-Sehy, and I’m super happy to have these two people with me at the mic first. The man with a plan. Mr. OG is here. How are you, brother?

[00:02:36] OG: Happy to be here Today is, uh, isn’t today, Arbor Day, 

[00:02:40] Joe: February 20th or uh uh, April 20th? 

[00:02:42] OG: Yes. February 20th. Thank God. Joe, please let us get through the winter months. We don’t have to go back. Is it April 

[00:02:49] Joe: already? 

[00:02:49] Anna: Wait, is it Earth Day? Arbor 

[00:02:52] OG: Day, earth Day. What did I say? Arbor Day. Arbor Day birthday. Arbor Day.

[00:02:54] Joe: Well, earth Day would include Arbor, wouldn’t it? Yeah. I mean it’s, it’s, it’s trees and everything else too. Earth 

[00:02:59] OG: Day is the 22nd. Uh, I was thinking of something else that’s on four 20 day. Mm-hmm. Nevermind 

[00:03:04] Anna: my parents’ anniversary. Shout out to them. 

[00:03:06] OG: Something else to do with trees on four 20. I was close. My bad.

[00:03:11] Joe: And Anna alum is back with us. How are you? 

[00:03:14] Anna: Hi Joe. Good thanks. How are you? 

[00:03:16] Joe: Good. Uh, I don’t generally get to be on a segment with you anymore, like OG Hogs the time. I know. So I’m super happy that you’re back here helping us again today. 

[00:03:25] Anna: Happy to be here. Back to my roots. 

[00:03:27] Joe: How long have your parents been married?

[00:03:31] Anna: Who, well, around 35 years. I wanna say. 

[00:03:36] Joe: You might wanna perfect that before you say happy anniversary. 

[00:03:40] Anna: I know what we are doing this year. We’re all. Me and my husband and my parents are going to do a cooking class. Oh, and we’re gonna learn some Thai food cooking. We did one around Christmas time and it was so much fun.

[00:03:55] Anna: So doing that again, 

[00:03:57] Joe: I get excited. OGs talked about cooking classes before and I always get excited, but I think like if we were to cooking class together, og, I would just sit back with a glass of wine and just let you do the cooking class for us while I sip and watch you cook. 

[00:04:09] OG: Yeah. I also sit in the back of the room and supervise from afar.

[00:04:13] OG: Going, oh, you probably should have more salt. 

[00:04:15] Joe: Well, thank goodness, Anna, you’re here. ’cause OG and I would starve. Mm-hmm. Is the the big takeaway there. 

[00:04:21] Anna: It’s a group project, someone’s gotta do it. 

[00:04:24] Joe: We’ve got three stackers with fantastic questions today, and I’m super happy that we’re going to put you in the spotlight.

[00:04:32] Joe: So we’re gonna hear from them. We got a couple sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. One of those is The Vault. We’re super happy to work with Array and Budget Simple on the Vault, and we’ve already announced it and it’s coming soon. Our friends at Budget Simple, helping us help you track your net worth, track your budget.

[00:04:53] Joe: If you’ve got a financial coach, they can even log in separately and help look at your numbers. All of that coming to the vault. Stacking Benjamins dot com. Slash Vault and, uh, the team at Array that works with banks and credit unions built the vault and we’re super happy to be associated with it. So Stacking Benjamins dot com slash vault.

[00:05:13] Joe: We have a couple more sponsors who help us. We’re going to hear from them. And then Anna OG and I we’re digging into your questions.

[00:05:23] Joe: All right guys, let’s start with stacker Haley, who has a question that, uh, well, I think a lot of our stackers are gonna be interested in knowing the answer to this one. 

[00:05:37] caller Haley: Hi, Joe OG and Doug. This is Haley from Oceanside, California. When my daughter was born, I opened a five twenty nine and an UPMA account for her through Fidelity.

[00:05:45] caller Haley: I recently heard the Trump accounts and was wondering if this would be more beneficial to start contributing to, as it is more like a traditional IRA. Just wondering your thoughts on the pros and cons for contributing to the Upma versus the Trump account. She was also born in 2024, so will not be getting the additional $1,000.

[00:06:01] caller Haley: Thanks and love the show. 

[00:06:03] Joe: Thank you so much for the question, Haley. And there’s a lot of people wondering what this new so-called, uh, Trump account, how does it work? Anna, do you mind diving in, uh, for us on the Trump account? Uh, what is this? How does it work? 

[00:06:15] Anna: Yeah, I have been getting a ton of questions about.

[00:06:18] Anna: The Trump account and who should use it, what the benefit of it is, because it is a little misleading. I was on the website today just to get a refresher, and essentially it’s super similar to an UTMA account in the way that it’s owned by the minor, like it is. It is their account. They can’t pull money out of it.

[00:06:42] Anna: They don’t actually get access to it until they’re 18, but similar to an utma. Any of the money that you’re putting into it is after tax, so that’s where it’s different than the traditional IRA. And on the Trump account website, it literally says, with all the tax advantages of a traditional IRA. So I see why that is very confusing.

[00:07:02] Anna: Like it’s basically comparing it apples to apples when it’s not like that at all. If this was more like an IRA, I would have a different thought on this. So you put money into it after tax. The difference between IT and a UTMA is that it’s gonna grow tax deferred. So every year, if you wanna do some sort of trades on it, dividends come out of it, any of that, you’re not getting taxed until you’re actually taking it out, and then you pay taxes on it.

[00:07:27] Anna: Whereas an utma, as you’re trading, as you’re getting dividends off the investments in it, you’re gonna pay taxes on it. So that’s kinda like the basics of how they’re different. 

[00:07:36] Joe: We should also explain, by the way, what an UTMA is because we’ve been using that. Haley used that term. Oh gee. What is an UTMA account?

[00:07:46] OG: Basically, it’s just a brokerage account or an investment account or a cash account or whatever for a minor. Every state has their own age of majority that the account transitions to the minor, but it stands for Uniform Transfers to Minors Act. That’s what UPMA stands for. Effectively, that’s what you would open if you were open.

[00:08:05] OG: You know, you went to the bank and you said, Hey, I’ve got a, I’ve got a 2-year-old. I need to put their christening money in. Like, what do I do? You’re opening it up my account. It’s their money. Legally, you’re in charge of it until they turn 18. At add, add age 18 or 21, depending on the state, it transitions to their account.

[00:08:21] OG: You can invest in whatever you want. Some of the big differences, and Anna hit on those with the Trump accounts, the, some of the big differences are the tax deferral. So you know, if you’re investing some. Sizable money for your kid in a regular brokerage account. The Trump account could be better because of the tax deferral.

[00:08:37] OG: The downside is it’s taxable when you take it out, unless it’s used for education or first home purchase, but the way housing prices are, that could be beneficial Down the line up. My accounts transition to the kid at 18 or 21. Trump accounts are 18 and there’s no requirement to take the money out just like a not my account is.

[00:08:57] OG: Other slight differences. There’s contribution limits in Trump accounts. So the max that you can put in is 5,000, and that can come from any sources. It can be your money, it can be, uh, employer matching. You know, if your employer has some sort of weird matching program. The 5,000 is the number. And then what have been highlighted quite a bit is the free thousand bucks.

[00:09:16] OG: So if you have a kid that’s born, I think it’s between 2025 and 2028. So if you’re fixing to get busy, then you get an extra free thousand bucks. So that offset all the costs associated with having a baby. Anna, you’ve got a 2-year-old, so I guess a thousand bucks would probably cover everything, right?

[00:09:31] Anna: Yeah. But she doesn’t qualify. 2024 baby. 

[00:09:35] OG: She’s a 24 baby. Aw shucks. No. A thousand bucks for you. 

[00:09:38] Joe: And that’s what Haley said too. The thousand dollars isn’t in play for her 

[00:09:41] OG: either. The um, the other thing is there’s gonna be some limitations on the investment. Trump has been very vocal about like America first and that kind of philosophy.

[00:09:49] OG: And so from an investing standpoint, think it’s gonna be large us. Base company investments, probably s and p, probably Dow Index Fund type of stuff. I doubt you’ll be able to diversify, uh, substantially outside of the United States, if at all. So there’s some limitations on investing, or at least that’s the forecast.

[00:10:07] OG: They haven’t even started these yet. Now you can register and they allegedly go live 4th of July this year. So you can register, say you’re gonna do it, and then decide down the line. Very similar TMAs versus, versus, uh, Trump accounts. 

[00:10:22] Joe: Yeah, I think just a few differences I think to, to highlight again, is that your state is going to determine whether the uniform transfer to minors or some states call it an UGMA uniform gift to minors.

[00:10:35] Joe: So Upma or agma, really the same thing, just depends on what state. Whether it’s 18, 21, some states are 25, that the child gets control. It’s interesting to note, by the way, uh, Haley, and for everybody else, why TMAs came to be in the first place, at least I found it fascinating, which was, it used to be that really wealthy people realized that they had a very, very high amount of tax.

[00:10:59] Joe: They were paying on these assets, sitting around, and they look at their kid and the they and their tech help went, oh. If we get the money to Junior, then we’re not gonna pay any money, and then we just take the money back when we need it. This is perfect. So it used to be a big tax loophole that you would hand over your assets to.

[00:11:21] Joe: A child and then just spend the money outta their account. So state by state, they began going, okay, here’s the deal. You can give money to a kid, but that money has to be used for them. Can’t be the basics of food, clothing, shelter has to be stuff that’s specifically for them and you, you can’t, you can’t touch it for other things.

[00:11:42] OG: Well, and they added a tax rate for kids. So if you have too much unearned income, then. Then they, you get taxed to the parent tax rate anyway, so that’s another downside of the UTMA account. Again, if you’re, if you’re dumping a bunch of money in there, you could end up having to pay a tax rate that’s equal to yours versus your, your child’s tax rate, which is largely close to zero generally.

[00:12:05] OG: So they both have their purpose, both of these accounts or all three of them have their purpose depends on how much money you’re saving and what your goal is. 

[00:12:13] Anna: I think for a majority of the people that have been asking about these. A lot of the times we’re just, I’m just deferring them to an UTMA or just five 20 nines or a brokerage in your name, but you know, it’s for your child.

[00:12:26] Anna: Unless you do get that seed money. I don’t see a huge benefit to this right now. 

[00:12:32] Joe: I think the only place there might be a benefit is if you want to really seed specifically into their retirement, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, if I’m putting money away, that’s gonna be really long-term money for retirement, and to your point, I get the thousand bucks.

[00:12:45] Joe: Man, just the, the fact that this is tax sheltered early on without the need to show any income, right? Mm-hmm. ’cause if I’m gonna put money in a Roth, or I’m gonna put money in a IRA for a kid, I have to be able to show income with a Trump account. I don’t have to, right? And now if I want to seed that retirement early and give them a nice.

[00:13:04] Joe: Head start. I mean the, the amount of money that you can put in from parrots and employers up to $5,000 per year, let’s say that I get that additional thousand bucks, that’s $6,000. And if we use this simple rule of 72, which is you take the interest rate, you think you’re gonna get divided into 72, that tells you how many years is gonna take it to double.

[00:13:28] Joe: So let’s say your kid is born in 2025. If we get 8%. We divide that into 72, that means every nine years. So that means that that 6,000 bucks, let’s just say they make one contribution. 6,000 bucks in 2026 that are a year old now, it’s gonna double when they’re 10. It’s gonna double when they’re 19. It’s gonna double when they’re 28.

[00:13:52] Joe: It’s gonna double when they’re 37. It’s gonna double when they’re 46. It’s gonna double when they’re 55. And again, let’s say they wanna retire at 65, gonna double again at 64, so it’s seven doubles. So that six with that one time, $6,000 contribution becomes 12,000 with that first double 24,000 with a second, 48,000 with a third.

[00:14:17] Joe: 96,000. Keep going. 

[00:14:18] OG: Let’s see how good Joe 

[00:14:19] Joe: is on the fly Math. 96,000 192,000 with the fifth, 384,000 with the sixth, that would be 700. And 68,000 bucks just back of the envelope. Right? 

[00:14:39] OG: If you don’t touch it, 

[00:14:40] Joe: if you don’t touch it, you 

[00:14:41] Anna: could say any number to me, and I would believe you right now. 

[00:14:45] Joe: She’s like, yep, I agree.

[00:14:46] OG: Sounds right 

[00:14:47] Joe: now, and that’s back of the envelope math. But still, that could be roughly three quarters of a million dollars toward retirement, which because of inflation’s not gonna go as far as it does today, but that’s still a lot of money. Mm-hmm. So I think if you’re using it for retirement to see their retirement, Anna, maybe.

[00:15:03] Anna: But I do think a lot of people, like most of the people I’m working with, they’re focused on college. We’re making sure that their retirement is good and their kids’ college is set. We’re not yet on the timeline of let’s now set up my kids for retirement. There is a small percentage of the population that could take advantage of it in that scope.

[00:15:24] OG: But not a ton. Yeah, all of this is true, but you can, it’s not like this is the only place to put the money. You know, famously, years and years and years ago, you probably, I dunno if you remember this Joe, but Rick Edelman had a kid’s trust that basically was a deferred annuity, which, you know, used a low cost annuity, basically is the same idea.

[00:15:44] OG: Put in 10 grand when your kid was born, put it in a, uh, deferred annuity. So you’re not gonna pay taxes on it. It’s tax deferred. Uh, make it as low cost as you can basically. Right. And, and buy an s and p uh, sub account within the annuity. And in, by the time they’re 60 years old, they got 5 million bucks.

[00:16:03] OG: Well, yeah, I, you know, I really wish my parents had 10 grand back in 1977 to put it in the Dow at 600. Like that would be okay by me. You also have to assume that never in that the last 48 years would I have touched the money. And there’s plenty of times where I was like, you know, things were a little snug and probably could have just been like, you know, I know it’s kind of robbing for my future, but I need this down payment, or I gotta get a car, or you know, whatever.

[00:16:30] OG: So I’m with Anna, this is great on paper and it looks great. And when you chart it out and say, oh, but if I put six grand a year away from my kid for the next 18 years, they’ll be a gazillionaire. Sure. They’ll also be a gazillionaire if you put away 6,000 a year for yourself. 

[00:16:44] opener: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:44] OG: Don’t spend it and then give it to them when you die, or give it to them through a gift.

[00:16:49] OG: When you’re 80 years old and they’re 50 and you know they’re trying to get across the finish line for retirement, there’s a thousand ways to listen. At the end of the day, saving six grand and letting us sit there for 50 years is a good idea. Right. Like, do that for a long time. Do that every year. Put six grand away.

[00:17:07] OG: Don’t touch it for 50 years. That will be a good rolling, uh, I said annuity. That’ll be a good rolling annuity. In 50 years of having that 6,000 bucks come due, like, oh, I got another 700,000 to spend this year. Ladi da. Here we go. But that’s the key. The key is to save the 6,000 bucks, invest it, and then don’t touch it for the next, uh, half a century.

[00:17:27] Joe: Haley, there you go. If like the majority of people you really want flexibility. Money in the Upma is gonna give you more flexibility or in a, you said even one that I really like, which is just keep it in your name. 

[00:17:42] Anna: Mm-hmm. I prefer that for most people because the kids get it at 18 or 21 immediately and like maybe that’s not your intention.

[00:17:49] Anna: You want to give it to them at 25, you don’t know what they’re gonna decide when they’re 18 or 19. 

[00:17:54] Joe: I know what I would’ve decided. 

[00:17:55] Anna: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:55] Joe: Mom wouldn’t 

[00:17:56] Anna: have liked 

[00:17:56] Joe: it. Same. 

[00:17:59] Anna: Yeah. But she’s doing amazing by saving it to the 5 29 and the Upma at this point. I think just keep going with that. 

[00:18:05] Joe: It is Haley great that you’re even asking the question.

[00:18:07] Joe: So congratulations on some great parenting. And what’s cool is, is as you invest it too, have your child, uh, with you as you invest it and to walk them through the investment you’re using. ’cause it’ll be a cool experience and maybe help track it with them so they get used to the emotions of investing as well.

[00:18:26] Joe: Next up is, uh, stacker. Kirsten has a question for us. Kirsten, what’s on your mind? 

[00:18:34] caller Kirsten: Hey there, Joe and team. My name is Kirsten and I’m in Madison, Wisconsin. I’m calling with a question about budgeting for down payment. I recently finalized a divorce and after doing a rent or own analysis, I’m in the market for a home of my own.

[00:18:46] caller Kirsten: My budget is $400,000 and with my income, I would like to put down 160 as to not have too high of a mortgage. Also, as much as I would love to house hack, I do have some kiddos with extra needs, so that won’t work. At this point in life. The money that I’ll be receiving as a part of our marital assets will be received through my excess retirement account.

[00:19:04] caller Kirsten: So I’m looking at other ways to access funds. I do have a few accounts that I’m thinking about tapping into, and I’m wondering what your thoughts are. Currently I have 155,000 in Roth IRAs. About 70 of that is principal. I have an annuity with 52,000 in it that was formed after I received a settlement from a car accident.

[00:19:22] caller Kirsten: Cost basis of that is 28 k. I also have a 53,000 in an HSA and about $30,000 in medical bills that I could submit for reimbursement. I would love not to touch that if I could, but I don’t know if that will be possible. I’m a huge fan of Paula’s, and I’m grateful to be an afford and a stacker. I decided to give you all a call on Stacking Benjamins as I often listen to podcasts on road trips, and my middle child who’s a preteen really gets a kick out of Doug.

[00:19:46] caller Kirsten: It’s so cute to hear them giggle while they’re also, hopefully learning a little something. Thank you so much for your help. 

[00:19:52] Joe: Kirsten, I’m, I’m so excited that you listen to the show with your kids. I think that is, I think that’s so awesome. Getting them used to financial stuff as fun at an early age. ’cause that’s a lesson I never learned.

[00:20:07] Joe: I was like, oh man, we’re, we’re gonna talk finance. Like we were told we had to leave the room. So the fact that you want them there now, the fact that you let them listen to Doug is a whole different thing. OG that I’m sure we don’t really wanna get into too much. It is what it is. So she has a few things.

[00:20:24] Joe: Number one, let’s talk first. $400,000 house and she wants to put down 160,000. I like this OG because she’s thought out how much mortgage she can afford and I feel like people don’t start with payments. They start with the bank telling them how much money they will give you and, and the bank. I’m only laughing because the bank’s number on what they will give you is never a good place to start.

[00:20:52] OG: I think when you go to the bank and you’re like, I wanna buy a house, they, they, the, the first thing they do is, uh, well, here’s what you can afford. So does the realtor. By the way, realtor will want you to have your pre-approval letter, which your pre-approval letter says, this is the maximum you can buy.

[00:21:05] OG: And guess what kind of houses they show you? Pretty much right at that maximum number is, uh, is what they’re, 

[00:21:11] Joe: and. Just a little bit above. In my experience, they’re always like, oh, if we push just a little more. 

[00:21:17] OG: Yeah. Based on the things that Kirsten said in terms of where her money is, right, retirement plan, Roth Money, HSAA deferred annuity, which sounds like is a payout from a car accident, none of those are, are liquid easily for a house down payment.

[00:21:34] OG: I guess the first thing that I would think about is, and I would just ask this question. What is the purpose of putting 160 K down? And I’ll just assume, like you said, that maybe she did the math and said, well, I want my mortgage payment to be $1,500 a month, because that 6%, $240,000 mortgage is roughly $1,500 a month.

[00:21:54] OG: The difference between that and putting 10% down and saying, okay, now the mortgage is gonna be 360,000, so same $400,000, but I’m gonna put 10% down, so 40 k. Changes the mortgage payment by about $800 a month. So the payment now is $2,200 a month instead of 1500. So, you know, seven, $800 a month difference.

[00:22:15] OG: And that’s not zero. That’s a pretty sizable amount of cashflow difference, and she didn’t give us what her income was or what her inflows are gonna be for the year. So it’s hard to judge whether or not that makes any difference, air quotes in the budget, but let’s just assume that it does. I think at the end of the day, we have to evaluate this from the perspective of what’s more important.

[00:22:36] OG: Is it more important to have a home and, you know, kind of plant your flag and, and, and be okay with lower retirement assets tax bill if you have that because of distributions or withdraws from your retirement accounts? Or is it a cashflow thing? Because the other side of the equation, and this is just me playing a little devil’s advocate here.

[00:22:58] OG: If we have to take 160 K out of retirement accounts, there’s gonna be some amount of penalties. There’s gonna be some amount of taxation, and yeah, we could hack a little bit of this with the HSA, like she said, or use the contributions from your Roth, which would be returned. Assuming that you’ve had it for five years, you could contact the lawsuit people and see if you could pull forward your annuity payment and say, Hey, instead of getting a check every month, what would be the value of you just giving me this all in one lump sum?

[00:23:28] OG: However, there’s gonna be some tax bill associated with that, right? And so my question would be is can we get the house and lower the tax bill? By having the assets pay the delta. Does that make sense? Like, I’m good with 1500, I don’t wanna pay 2200, but I’ve got assets. Can I make the assets pay the other 700?

[00:23:48] OG: And instead of having 160 K withdrawn from my account on day one, I’m withdrawing $700 a month until my income catches up to it, it makes it palatable, or, or whatever the restriction is in the math. Or you just go. The money’s not liquid. This is for retirement, and we just have to wait longer for the house.

[00:24:07] OG: It depends on the priorities. 

[00:24:09] Joe: I think no matter what, Kristen, I would listen to episode 1808 because that $30,000 in medical bills that could be reimbursed. Uh, on episode 1808, we talked to Imani Vance who went through this and she got some help from a nonprofit organization that helps people navigate with hospitals, these programs that are set up.

[00:24:31] Joe: So I would listen to 1808 first because I’m not sure. Is that $30,000 money that, uh, you’d like the hospital to help you with or is that to take ’cause OG you and I looked at that differently, you thought $30,000 you could submit for reimbursement to take money outta the HSA. 

[00:24:49] OG: Yeah, and look, there are no, this is the honor system, and I’m not telling you to not be straight with your HSA stuff, but I’m saying like, there’s no reconciliation.

[00:24:59] OG: You know, when you take money out of your HSA. They just send you a 10 99 and then on your tax form you just go, yeah, it was used for medical stuff. It’s not a big process, basically, is what I’m saying. Like if you Yeah, if you’ve paid the bill, you 

[00:25:13] Joe: wanna keep your receipts, you wanna make 

[00:25:15] OG: sure you paid the bill, you wanna keep the receipts, you gotta keep the records in case you get audited, all that sort of stuff.

[00:25:18] OG: But there’s, it’s not like you’re attaching 700 pages to your tax return. Go and see. I, this is, this is my hospital bill from when I was, you know what I mean? Like that. That’s not a thing. 

[00:25:27] Joe: Yes. 

[00:25:28] OG: And there’s two schools of thought on the HSA too, right? One side is, Hey, let’s just keep building this up. And one is like, just use it, man.

[00:25:34] OG: Because of that reason. It’s like, do I really wanna be keeping track of medical receipts for the next 50 years so that I can prove when I’m 75 that I get to take this 50 K out tax free versus can I use that 30 grand right now? And you know, like we were talking about with what’s the, what’s the priority if the priority is the house?

[00:25:55] OG: That’s a requirement, like I gotta do this. Then take the 30 grand from the HSA, take 10 grand from your Roth. Now you got 10% down. Probably be able to get a mortgage with 10% down a reasonable rate, and now you’ve got the assets to offset the delta between the cash flow of the payment. If that’s, if that’s the limiter, if it’s just a like, well, I don’t want to have a house payment more than 1500, but I make 2 75 a year of income.

[00:26:21] OG: It’s like, okay, well just. You know, how bad do you want the house? And I’m not saying that not having a down payment, a big down payment is a good idea or bad idea. I’m just saying like kinda weird spot. Right? We got money, but it’s not money we get to. 

[00:26:34] Joe: Yeah. Well, and I like your other point too, which is what does this do to this money?

[00:26:40] Joe: What does this do to your chance for a successful retirement? Because I think there’s the, there’s the problem now. Need the house. There’s the problem in the future. Need to someday be able to need money. Yeah. Be able to retire. And there always is a trade off. Right. And I’m not saying not to take the money now, I’m saying whenever we take the money now we wanna know what that trade off is.

[00:27:02] Joe: Exactly. What is this costing me in terms of the future so I can put a strategy together if I decide to take the money exactly what that’s gonna cost me later, that $52,000 in the annuity if it’s from a settlement og. Is there an opportunity to get that money early or is that gonna depend on the contract?

[00:27:20] OG: Well, when she said it’s an annuity and the cost basis is X, then to me that means that she got a lump sum, got bamboozled into putting, sorry. Got sold, I mean, sorry. Um. Oh, 

[00:27:31] Joe: I see. 

[00:27:32] OG: Got hoodwinked. 

[00:27:32] Joe: Yes. 

[00:27:33] OG: Sorry. 

[00:27:33] Joe: Somebody said You gotta put it into an annuity. 

[00:27:35] OG: Put it into an annuity. How’s that? Uh, you know, ’cause it saves money on taxes, but in reality is getting like, destroyed in fees probably internally.

[00:27:46] OG: She put in the 26 K, it’s worth 50 or whatever she said, and now she takes the 50 out. You’re gonna pay ordinary income on the difference between the 20 and the 50. And 

[00:27:58] Joe: I 

[00:27:58] OG: see 10% penalty if you’re under 59 and a half. 

[00:28:01] Joe: Kirsten, the pain here is that to get money outta the annuity, it’s what’s called li o last in first out, which means any interest it makes you gotta take out first and that’s where the penalty OG that you’re talking about’s gonna reside.

[00:28:15] OG: Yeah. Now that’s different than a structured payout from an accident. So let’s say that you’re in an accident in the, in the insurance companies and you know, your lawyers and everything say, okay, we’re gonna pay you $25,000 a year for the next 20 years. Right? That’s an annuity also, but that’s a structured settlement payout.

[00:28:35] OG: So you’re getting the 20 5K. There are companies that exist in the open market where you can go to and say, Hey, instead of getting 25 grand a year for the next 20 years. What will you guys trade me in cash today for? For the 25 grand? A month? A year. Oh, 

[00:28:48] Joe: so you sell them that future cash flow for a 

[00:28:51] OG: lump sum today, you just say, Hey, take this.

[00:28:52] OG: And they say, well, we’ll give you 150 grand right now, or whatever, whatever the, and it’s just based on market rates and so on and so forth. But I’m curious, Anna, from your perspective, you work a lot more with millennial clients. How does everybody look at house ownership? ’cause I see a lot of videos of people saying.

[00:29:13] OG: It’s not the American dream that it once was. 

[00:29:16] Anna: Everyone is a little bit different. A lot of the people that we are working with are similar to me, have kids, maybe a dog, like they aren’t living in New York City. You know what I mean? Like I don’t live, I don’t work with a lot of people who are trying to rent because they’re in a super high uh, expense.

[00:29:37] Anna: Part of the country. So I think a majority of the people I work with, similar age, but they still wanna buy a house eventually. Like they wanna be somewhere for a long period of time. They wanna have a yard and they wanna like settle down. I don’t, I don’t necessarily see this as something that’s changed.

[00:29:55] Anna: I rarely work with anyone who’s like, yep, I wanna rent for the rest of my life, or I wanna rent for the next 10 years. Like the goal ultimately is to buy a house. I see that as well, OG with. Conversations on the internet about people moving away from buying, but I personally am not seeing that as much in my clients and for myself and the people I surround myself with, friends, family, that 

[00:30:21] Joe: it appears too, that Kirsten has thought about house hacking about having somebody share the rent.

[00:30:27] Anna: Joe, Joe, can you break that down? What is house hacking? 

[00:30:30] Joe: House hacking is where you bring on renters basically, and you, you have a roommate or you have some roommates. So, and for a lot of people that can defray the cost of either home ownership or even renting if you consider different ways to do it. I know a friend of ours, Craig Op, who will basically rent you anything he owns for money.

[00:30:53] Joe: Mm-hmm. Just to bring in extra money. He’s very comfortable. He was very comfortable renting out all the bedrooms in his house. He had a three bedroom house. He rent out all three and he slept on the sofa in his living room. Now the renters also had to be comfortable with that, which they were, ’cause everybody’s just looking for the same thing.

[00:31:11] Joe: But obviously, you know, Kirsten made a point of really can’t do that. We got too much going on at our house where that’s not gonna work for us. 

Yeah. 

[00:31:19] Joe: But I’m glad that you considered it, Kirsten, because definitely to have that on the table. When we used to have our real estate show for a short time, we had some real estate experts do one of those March Madness style brackets, and house hacking was the number one strategy for people that were new to the quote real estate game to begin bringing in money.

[00:31:39] Joe: Because it is not easy because imagine sleeping on your, sleeping on your sofa every night. Not easy, but it is a simple way to very quickly defray a lot of the costs that are associated with the average house. 

[00:31:55] Anna: Yeah, I think in Kirsten’s situation, being a single mom with kids, like there’s no way I would ever, ever do that.

[00:32:02] Anna: So 

[00:32:03] OG: no rando sleeping on the couch or in 

[00:32:05] Anna: the uh, and even if it’s not a rando, it’s just someone that you don’t know very well and you’re. Trying to raise your kids and have a good environment for them. Like that’s, that would be out of the question for me. 

[00:32:15] Joe: I think, Kirsten, to wrap up what both OG and Anna are talking about, there’s basically three pieces of, of math to do.

[00:32:23] Joe: Number one is what is this gonna cost you long term when you take money? Number two is taking OGs approach and really asking are there different ways to. Use these assets where you don’t use them right now and how do those affect the math? And then number three, I think the math you’re already doing, which is solving for cashflow, is important and maybe you’re not able to do it today.

[00:32:45] Joe: But definitely all three of those, I think, put together, looking at it three different ways, will begin to help you, uh, make a strategy emerge, which will help you get that house. And by the way, when you get it, ’cause we love Madison. I don’t know if you guys have been to Madison. I love the dairy in medicine.

[00:33:02] Joe: Of course, the beer in Wisconsin is slightly delicious, man. When my book tour went through Madison, it was so fun sitting there out overlooking the lakes and just beautiful, beautiful place that you live, Kirsten. Thank you Haley and Kirsten for the questions. By the way, if you’ve got questions for Anna and OG and I for our next episode where we dive into your questions, head to stack your Benjamins.

[00:33:28] Joe: Com slash yell downstairs. 

[00:33:31] OG: What? 

[00:33:32] Joe: So if you want to yell your question down the basement stairs, it’s stack your Benjamins dot com slash yell downstairs. 

[00:33:37] OG: Oh my 

[00:33:37] Joe: goodness. And uh, like with Kirsten and Hailey, we’ll be happy to answer your questions as well. Hey, coming up in the second half, OG and Anna, take it over.

[00:33:48] Joe: I get a break while they talk about taxes, but before that, Doug, you’re gonna get back down. Doug’s been upstairs doing Dishwash duty. Doug time for your trivia question.

[00:34:01] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and today’s a big day for milk lovers everywhere. Because the famous pasteurization process was first created on today’s date, apparently they were trying to find a way to preserve foods longer, and like any good scientist. They started with alcohol because preserving wine is the key to preserving the very basis of civilization, and in an effort that has aided Benjamin Stackers everywhere.

[00:34:27] Doug: The process was soon applied to beer and milk. You know the other two food groups. Here’s a question. What’s the name of the scientist who patented the process of pasteurization? I’ll be back right after I go look this up. Don’t get me wrong, like I, I totally know. I probably should verify because, you know, kids depend, the kids depend on me.

[00:34:49] Doug: It’s for the kids.

[00:34:59] Doug: Hey there stackers. I’m milk lover and guy responsible for making sure Joe’s mom’s wine and beer supply remains intact until after a certain podcast is recorded. Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. It’s impossible to ascertain just how many Benjamins have been made off beer, wine, and milk, but I think just counting my consumption alone.

[00:35:21] Doug: Anheuser-Busch and Gordon both owe me a solid attaboy and a, you know, solid pat in the back. Pat me on the back. Today’s question, these three products spoil less often because of a process called pasteurization, but who patented this process? Okay, I looked it up. You’re, you’re, you’re not gonna believe this, but a guy named Louie Paster created it.

[00:35:44] Doug: Total fluke. That a guy named Pastor is responsible for pasteurization. What are the odds? Gotta tell you some days. Our trivia is just so amazing. You could thank me later and now two people you’ll be thanking for your knowledge of financial basics. Let’s throw the show over to OG and Anna. 

[00:36:05] Anna: Yoyo. Yo. 

[00:36:07] OG: I love it.

[00:36:08] OG: Just right to it. All right, Anna. Week six, we are going to really dive into this third tier of our investing bucket. So this is the engine bucket. And look at it from a different perspective than I think a lot of people do. I think most people think of this as like, okay, cool. How much small cap should I have?

[00:36:30] OG: And that’s an important question, but not a really important question. Some really important questions are how are you allocating your money, not just from a time standpoint, which is what we talked about last week, but also from a taxable standpoint. What kind of tax breaks do you get for investing? What kind of tax breaks do you get for leaving it invested?

[00:36:53] OG: And what kind of tax breaks do you get for distributing it to yourself or to the people that you care about later in life? And how do we manage all that? So today we’re gonna talk about taxes with the engine bucket, with your investing bucket. And I wanna think about it in terms of a triangle. So on your piece of paper, I dunno if you can hear that or not.

[00:37:13] OG: Just sounds like wind probably. Draw a triangle on the piece of paper and at the end of each triangle, like a bucket. So you know, you’ve got three buckets on three triangle pieces. Okay. You wanna walk through each one of these? 

[00:37:25] Anna: Sure. 

[00:37:26] OG: Let’s talk about just kind of big picture. What are the headlines of each one of these buckets, so to speak?

[00:37:32] Anna: Okay, so we got the pre-tax bucket, we have the brokerage bucket, and then we have your tax free bucket. 

[00:37:42] OG: Okay, so pre-tax brokerage, tax free. Let’s just pretend, you know, we use these words, we say, Hey, pre-tax, tax free, whatever. Let’s just kind of talk about what each one of those does conceptually, and then obviously the titles of each account that goes in there.

[00:37:56] OG: So when we think about pre-tax, like what, what type of investments go in the pre-tax bucket, or what types of tax structures, I should say, not investments, 

[00:38:05] Anna: tax structure, meaning like your IR. A. 

[00:38:07] OG: Okay. Is that 

[00:38:08] Anna: what you’re saying? 

[00:38:09] OG: Yeah. 

[00:38:09] Anna: So you’ll see your 401k, your pre-tax 401k. You’ll see your traditional IRA sitting in this account.

[00:38:15] Anna: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:16] OG: What, what does it mean to be pre-tax? Break this down like we’re 1 0 1 stuff here. Yeah. So when I say pre-tax 401k, I’m filling this out for the first time. I don’t know what the hell any of this means. 

[00:38:26] Anna: When you save into your 401k, this is typically the default. This is what most 4 0 1 Ks are gonna offer you.

[00:38:33] Anna: What you’re probably gonna default to, you’re getting a tax break with every dollar that you put into it. Your income is deducted dollar for dollar, your sorry, your taxable income. Is deducted dollar for dollar for what you put into that pre-tax bucket grows tax deferred. So still no taxes on that money.

[00:38:52] OG: We’re not paying any taxes on it while it sits there and does its thing 

[00:38:54] Anna: mm-hmm. When it comes out. But, 

[00:38:57] OG: but, 

[00:38:57] Anna: so when you are 60 years old and you’re ready to retire. You take any money outta that, that’s taxed at ordinary income rate. 

[00:39:04] OG: Okay, so if I make a hundred thousand dollars and I put 20,000 in my 401k, when I go to file my taxes and I put this all on the pre-tax side, I file my taxes like I made 80 K.

[00:39:14] opener: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:15] OG: So I take a hundred minus 20, I’m paying taxes on 80. So I run the. Tax bill as if I made 80. That 20 goes into this bucket. It’s invested, it’s diversified as doing its thing, but now when that 20 grand turns into $200,000 when I retire and I take that a hundred thousand back out to live on now, now I’m putting the a hundred thousand on my tax return as taxable income, and so, yep.

[00:39:38] OG: That one side’s the gimme. This other side is the Gotcha. And if you haven’t figured it out yet from taxes, just about everything has some level of gimme and Gotcha. Uh, along the way. Alright, so that’s pre-tax. Uh, how about brokerage? What’s the tax benefits of, of your brokerage account? So this is non-retirement, I guess.

[00:39:55] OG: Just regular investing. 

[00:39:56] Anna: Yeah. This is money that’s post-tax. So nothing is changing on your tax return. 

[00:40:03] OG: Okay. 

[00:40:03] Anna: And what you’re doing is you’re putting money in here. It is sitting. Every time you sell something, every time you get any sort of dividends interest off of the investments in this account, you’re getting taxed on that.

[00:40:15] Anna: And then anytime you sell assets from this and you use it for, you know, buying a house, whatever it is, retirement, any of that, you’re then paying capital gains tax on the growth of it, which is typically lower, typically lower than your regular ordinary income tax rate. 

[00:40:33] OG: Right on. So, um, I have a little bit control on, on, on that side of the equation in terms of, in terms of when I sell stuff and when I am going to, uh, realize, realize that tax.

[00:40:45] OG: And then the third bucket is tax free. Uh. That sounds pretty awesome. I’ll take tax-free income. 

[00:40:50] Anna: Yeah, there’s still a catch with it. You still pay taxes on the front end, so again, tax return is not changing. There’s no tax deduction, anything like that. Taxable income is still the same, but when you put it in, it grows tax-free, comes out tax-free, and there’s no required minimum distribution from it, and it can sit in that account.

[00:41:12] Anna: For as long as you want 

[00:41:13] OG: forever. What is the, for everybody just kind of thinking about this at home, there’s gotta be like a correct percentage. So it’s at 40, 40, 20. 20, 30, 50. Like what is the right percentage for each one of these buckets? Yeah. And how do I, how do I evaluate this? 

[00:41:30] Anna: So the exact percentage that you want into every single bucket.

[00:41:33] Anna: I’m just kidding. Um, 

[00:41:35] OG: I was like, wow, you really do have an answer. Good. This is different. 

[00:41:38] Anna: No, I mean, everyone’s gonna look a little bit different. Ideally, you’d want it balanced between the three. That would be the best situation you get into retirement. You have a little bit in every single bucket, but everyone’s different.

[00:41:52] Anna: If you’re retiring early. We kind of need a little bit more in that brokerage to bridge the gap between retirement and 59 and a half when you can actually access your pre-tax and Roth money. And it also depends on like, where’s cashflow at? Do you need that tax break today? If in order for you to save today, do you need to put it into pre-tax?

[00:42:12] Anna: Because I’d rather that than no savings at all. Um, so it’s really gonna be a little bit nuanced towards your situation, but the target would be. Equal between three, three buckets. You 

[00:42:21] OG: want some flexibility? It’s funny, I was talking to somebody a couple weeks ago and they were like, you know, I put all my money in the pre-tax 401k.

[00:42:27] OG: I should, I, I, I read online I should do it as a Roth, so I’m gonna change it. And I said, well, you know, you max out your 401k, that’s 20 4K. Your spouse maxes out their 401k, that’s 20 4K. So your 50 k right of tax deferral. You recognize this is a $20,000 tax swing, right? Like you’re gonna owe 20 grand more on your taxes.

[00:42:48] OG: Next year if you don’t adjust it 

[00:42:49] Anna: and not to mention like, does this take you out of certain deductions or credits? Like there’s other downhill effects that this could 

[00:42:56] OG: Yeah. 

[00:42:56] Anna: Cause too. 

[00:42:58] OG: Yeah, and I was thinking about the flexibility here. You were mentioning capital gains, taxes and dividends, and there are a different rate and all that sort of stuff.

[00:43:04] OG: The idea behind all of this is you want to have flexibility in your distribution plan. So we’ve got the three different buckets or three different places for your money in terms of timeframe of your goals. But this also matters in the timeframe of your goals as it relates to the tax strategy. You mentioned, if I wanna retire at 52, you better have some liquidity.

[00:43:26] OG: You better have some brokerage money because it’s kind of a pain. You can do it, but it’s kind of a pain to get money out of pre-tax accounts and even after you get into retirement, it affects your social security taxes, it affects your Medicare premiums. And just having the flexibility to be able to review each one of those on an annual basis and say.

[00:43:45] OG: This is what’s going on in my life, I think is super important. I mentioned make a little triangle, fill up your buckets, put a percentage and just look at it. You know, draw your buckets to scale. That’s what I always tell people to do. Like look at this and say like, where am I heavy in one area and not in the other?

[00:44:00] OG: Like, do I, can I afford to make some allocation changes from a tax standpoint? That’s a good way to just visualize where your distribution. Is as it relates to your, your tax assets. If you wanna score yourself on all this, we created a scorecard. You go to Stacking Benjamins dot com slash scorecard, taxes and investments and cashflow and stuff.

[00:44:21] OG: It takes three or four minutes, you get your score back and some commentary about. Things that you can do to improve that, number one. Number two, we have another week-ish or so. If you want to have a vote on what we cover in the next season, send me an email OG at Stacking Benjamins dot com with a, you know, your list or one thing, or whatever you want us to cover, and we will try to fit it into the, uh, curriculum.

[00:44:42] OG: As I learned last week was the word that I was looking for, so Stacking ventures.com/scorecard. Email address OG at Stacking Benjamins dot com if you want some opinion about next season. Okay. A little long on taxes. But taxes are important. You know they suck, but we gotta, they are. 

[00:44:59] Anna: We didn’t even scratch the surface either.

[00:45:01] OG: I know we didn’t, did we? 

[00:45:04] bumper: Hi, I am Derek, and when I’m not working on the hook for Joe’s Mom’s next greatest rap album, I’m Stacking Benjamin’s baby. 

[00:45:11] Joe: Thank you so much, Anna and og. Nice job on the tax front. Let’s talk about the back porch because this thing, everybody’s talking about your segment. Everybody wants a name, and we had a couple people that wrote in about ideas for a name.

[00:45:30] Anna: Let’s hear ’em. 

[00:45:31] Joe: First one comes from J. F Jay says, Hey, got an idea if you haven’t given that segment a name yet. Orange banana 

[00:45:41] Anna: is, is OG Orange, 

[00:45:45] Joe: he said, uh, or something like that. Since OG plus Anna Sim is is similar. So he wants to combine OG with. Hmm. And he said you could also take the Chicken Banana Kids song.

[00:45:58] Joe: Uh, 

[00:45:59] Anna: I 

[00:45:59] Joe: love the Chicken 

[00:45:59] Anna: Banana Kids song, 

[00:46:02] Joe: and you could dub in orange for an intro tune. Say hi to Doug for me. We will do that. Jay, 

[00:46:07] OG: put it on the list. It’s at the bottom of the list, but it’s on, 

[00:46:11] Anna: I will personally sing the song if we go in that direction. 

[00:46:14] Joe: Oh, 

[00:46:15] OG: oh. Then we’re in 

[00:46:17] Anna: you. You don’t wanna hear me singing, but I’ll do it.

[00:46:20] OG: Our next team retreat, we are karaoking for sure, 

[00:46:24] Anna: please. 

[00:46:25] Joe: She’s laid down the gauntlet. Uh, second Patrick had some suggestions as well. Patrick says he has basic segment name ideas, so Stacking basics. Is his first one. I like that. Benjamins basics. He’s got like 12 of ’em. So we’ve got quite a few Stacking Benjamins.

[00:46:47] Joe: The basics, you could tell Patrick has some time on his hands, I think to to think about this. The basics of Stacking SB basics. Basic Stacking. Stacking 1 0 1. Keep it basic, Ben, with an exclamation point at the end. Mom’s basement. Basics. Or basement basics. 

[00:47:09] Anna: I like them all. 

[00:47:11] Joe: You know the thing about being a basic B word 

[00:47:14] Anna: uhhuh?

[00:47:15] Anna: That’s true. 

[00:47:15] Joe: We could do, we could do that. We’re a bunch of basic bees. Um, 

[00:47:21] Anna: basic bends. 

[00:47:22] Joe: Basic bends. Yes. Yes. That’s the B word. Yeah. That I’m talking about. Patrick says, if it’s not obvious, I’m encouraging simplicity. 

[00:47:30] Anna: I like it. Patrick. Good job. 

[00:47:32] Joe: Very, very to the point. I think my favorite is still the, uh, the, the first one.

[00:47:39] Joe: Going back to OGs military background. I like the, I like the bootcamp idea. 

[00:47:44] OG: Yeah. 

[00:47:44] Anna: What was it? 

[00:47:45] Joe: Basic training. Basic training. It’s 

[00:47:47] OG: too army 

[00:47:48] Joe: OG still starts shaking years. 

[00:47:51] OG: I’ve very publicly said if I could go back as an adult, I would a hundred percent spend my summer at. At MCRD in San Diego, like you eat, you sleep, you work out.

[00:48:03] OG: Like that’s basically the entire day you get to shoot guns. The yelling wouldn’t bother me. I’m like twice as old as anybody there, like yell at me louder. Dude. I wouldn’t keep, I wouldn’t keep up. They’d be like, you can’t do a single pull up. Like, dude, I’m almost 50. I’m trying, like, my shoulder doesn’t work the same way it used to.

[00:48:23] OG: I’m, I’m, I’m doing these one handed, 

[00:48:25] Joe: you know, you’re telling, you’re telling your drill sergeant all your medical issues. As if they will care, 

[00:48:34] OG: kid, where’s the Biofreeze? Then that baby can get one. 

[00:48:38] Joe: So good. Thanks for all those names. If you got more, send them me, Joe at stacky Benjamins dot com. Big thanks to Kirsten and Hailey for helping us make a great show today.

[00:48:48] Joe: Thanks to the two of you, Anna and OG, for a great segment. And remember to go to our YouTube page where we are turning all of the OG and Nana segments into a fantastic video series, which also. Includes a lot of graphics that helps you kind of get where they’re going. So head over and subscribe to our YouTube page so that you can dive more into that segment a second time, which I think is nice.

[00:49:13] Joe: You know, if I’m trying to learn something. I’ll find an author who’s really good at it, and I’ll listen to the book as I go on a walk. So I get the high concepts and then I will get the book and then I’ll mark it up the second time. And the video series helps you do that. So youtube.com/ Stacking Benjamins gets you there.

[00:49:30] Joe: Alright, Doug, you’ve got it from your man. What should we have learned today? 

[00:49:33] Doug: So what should we have learned today? First, take some advice from the team, whether it’s an index fund, a Trump account, or an utma. Fit the type of account you need to the end goal and you’re less likely to end up regretting it later.

[00:49:46] Doug: Great questions today, everybody. Second home down payment. Well, this can be tricky by setting the right amount of money aside and using the right mortgage. You can control both your cash flow and riskless to bank interest rates, but the big lesson. Don’t even try to ask Joe’s mom if her wine is pasteurized.

[00:50:07] Doug: She’ll just demand another glass to make sure it’s still good. We’re on ya, ma. What? What’s that? Now what she, she said she isn’t sure if the wine is good. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. I need to fetch her yet another glass. All right. I’ll be right there. Thanks to you for carrying the load today with your excellent questions.

[00:50:31] Doug: Stackers, have a question for Anna OG Joe, and especially me. How about this guy? I’m right here. Nobody ever asks me any questions. Head to Stacking Benjamins dot com slash yell downstairs to ask your question for our next q and a episode. This show is the property of SP podcast LLC, copyright 2026, and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy.

[00:50:57] Doug: You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello and oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know.

[00:51:16] Doug: This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and we’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[00:52:25] OG: Joe, I was, um, I’m, I’m dipping my toe back into Instagram. I’m trying not to spend a bunch of time on it, but I’m chronicling a little bit of my training, a little bit of some family stuff that’s going on, and on occasion you kind of go down the rabbit hole. You know, just the, the scrolling, apparently there’s, it doesn’t end.

[00:52:47] OG: I found that out. But a lot of Instagram stuff and YouTube and stuff like that, it’s, it’s an algorithm of what you are searching they feed you more of. Right? So, so I obviously just, uh, training and health and fitness and stuff like that, and I came across this bit about running and I thought this would be very applicable to you, Joe, because I know, you know, you are an athlete.

[00:53:11] OG: Have always been your entire life. I know you hit a little struggle there with the Disney thing and you know you’re on the mend and, and looking up. So, uh, here’s a little bit about running and training that I think is kind of right up your alley 

[00:53:24] bit: off topic. If you’ve ever bragged about doing a half marathon, you can shut the up forever.

[00:53:34] bit: When did that even become a thing? A half marathon. Ooh. I just finished reading half a book. Yeah, big thick one. Gotta the middle, set it down. I’ll never look at it again. I can bench press around 450 pounds, one half time, just the down part. The point is you, yourself, and your nipples are 20, accomplished nothing and no one wants to hear about it.

[00:54:11] Joe: Okay, I got it. Message received. 

[00:54:14] Anna: Don’t let him bully you, Joe. You’re doing amazing.