The Basics of Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) with Jackie Cummings Koski (SB1610)

Master Financial Independence with Jackie Cummings Koski

Are you ready to take control of your finances and make this holiday season the year you avoid debt traps? Today, we’re diving into the inspiring story of Jackie Cummings Koski, co-host of the Catching Up to FI podcast. Jackie’s journey—from a divorce that sparked her financial awakening to achieving FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early)—is packed with lessons you can use to stack your Benjamins and live life on your terms.

What You’ll Learn Today:

• How to develop a saving habit that lasts.
• The key steps Jackie took to overcome financial fears and invest wisely.
• Tips for navigating holiday spending without breaking the bank.

Jackie also shares actionable strategies for building a financial dashboard, exploring side hustles, and embracing flexibility in your work and life. Whether you’re just starting or looking to fine-tune your financial game, this episode is packed with advice to help you move forward with confidence.

Episode Highlights:

• Struggling to get back to work after a holiday weekend? We’ve all been there!
• Jackie’s journey: From financial wake-up call to achieving FIRE success.
• Overcoming fears, gaining confidence, and investing smarter.
• Building a financial dashboard to track your progress.
• Smart holiday spending tips to keep your budget intact.

Trivia Fun:
How much do people typically overspend during the holidays? Join Joe, OG, and Doug as they tackle this question in our trivia segment, with plenty of laughs and surprises along the way.

Don’t Miss This Episode If:
You’re looking for inspiration, actionable advice, and practical tips to master your money, avoid holiday debt, and build the financial independence you’ve always dreamed of.

Resources from This Episode:

• Jackie Cummings Koski’s Catching Up to FI Podcast
• Stacking Benjamins Workplace Benefits Guide
• Join the Basement Facebook Group for Tips and Community Fun

Love What You Hear? Share the Wealth!
If today’s episode inspired you, help us spread the word by leaving a review or sharing it with a friend. Every share helps keep the basement buzz going!

---

Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201

Enjoy!

---

• 

• 

• 

• 

• 

• 

---

Big thanks to Jackie Cummings Koski for joining us today. Grab yourself a copy of the book F.I.R.E. For Dummies. Hear more from Jackie on Catching up to FI Podcast at Catching Up to FI Podcast – Apple Podcasts.

---

Our Headline

• 8 ways to ride out the holidays with your wallet intact (Empower.me Blog)

---

Doug’s Trivia

• Who was the drug kingpin they called the “king of cocaine”?

---

---

Want more than just the show notes? How about our newsletter with STACKS of related, deeper links?

• Check out The 201, our email that comes with every Monday and Wednesday episode, PLUS a list of more than 19 of the top money lessons Joe’s learned over his own life about money. From credit to cash reserves, and insurance to investing, we’ll tackle all of these. Head to StackingBenjamins.com/the201 to sign up (it’s free and we will never give away your email to others).

---

Join Us Wednesday

Tune in on Wednesday when we dive into the shake up at Robinhood and what YOU should expect from a financial advisor.

---

Written by: Kevin Bailey

Miss our last show? Listen here: Our Biggest Best Board Games About Money AND Holiday Fun Lists Yet! SB1609

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] Joe: Oh man. How is it so difficult getting outta bed the Monday after a holiday weekend? How hard is it? I’m excited to be here. I gotta put in five days this week in a row. Are you kidding me? What’s this about like half 

[00:00:13] OG: days for you, but sure. Well, 

[00:00:15] Joe: sure. Yeah. You know what I did though? Remember that uh, I woke up sexy as hell again, just that’s what my mug says.

[00:00:24] For those of you not, it’s okay hanging out with a san video. Wow. Okay. 

[00:00:27] Doug: I want your mirror just had mirror. Mirror on the wall. It is Cyber Monday Doug, by the way, is there any truth because I think there is that. Mirrors in hotel rooms make you look skinnier. I hope not. ’cause I, ’cause I like the mirrors in hotel rooms.

[00:00:44] That’s my point. 

[00:00:47] OG: I don’t see why they wouldn’t. 

[00:00:48] Doug: I know it, but I’m like, damn, I love this hotel. Yes. Look how slim I get every time I walk through this door. Seriously. And, uh, I just happened to be not long ago and, and I thought, uh, that must be the mirror you have in your house. You finally went, no way.

[00:01:04] Doug walks into his hotel room and goes, no way. And well, and then I immediately go to an outback state. The scale reads 

[00:01:11] OG: 1 72. 

[00:01:13] Doug: The scales are all wrong too. That’s right. It’s like, 

[00:01:16] OG: it’s like I got, it’s like you go to Disney World and you put your head through that thing and you’re like the big muscular guy, right?

[00:01:23] Like, wow. Every time I come here, I’m a pirate and I weigh 170 pounds and I’ve got hair. 

[00:01:30] Joe: I’m a pirate. It’s fabulous. You know what else is fabulous? The people that’s gonna say, you know, who else are 

[00:01:35] OG: pirates? 

[00:01:36] Joe: But good pirates. Pirates for good. Heck yeah. The men and women in our navy. OG or the lamb? Pirates.

[00:01:42] The Pirates for 

[00:01:42] OG: Good. 

[00:01:43] Joe: The men and women in our army. How are you possibly spinning this as air pirates? 

[00:01:49] Doug: Good pirates. Space Pirates. 

[00:01:50] Joe: Yeah. Air pirates, space pirates. We got all the pirates. We’re pirate everything 

[00:01:55] OG: but for good. Pirates for good. 

[00:01:57] Joe: Keeping us safe this holiday weekend, the men and women are armed forces.

[00:02:00] Oh, there it is. We begin this Monday, like we begin every Monday with the SLU 

[00:02:03] Doug: to our troops. So raise your mugs gents. This whole thing was a setup for him to be able to raise his mug to say, woke up six years. Hell again, on behalf 

[00:02:14] Joe: of the men and women making podcasts in mom’s basement. Wait a minute, I gotta do that again.

[00:02:18] On behalf of the men and women, the Sexy Men and Women making podcast in Mom’s basement and the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union, here’s to our troops. Thanks for all you did this holiday and continue to do throughout the holidays and all year long. Let’s go stack some Benjamins now. Shall we stack ’em up?

[00:02:37] Jackie: Uh oh. Sounds like somebody’s got a case of the mund.

[00:02:46] Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[00:03:00] I am Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and while everyone else is shopping online. Let’s help you put your dollar bills in order with a woman helping us all take this job and shove it. Uh, that reminds me og. We’re gonna have to have a little chat after the show here to share the basics of the financial independence.

[00:03:20] Retire Early Train. We welcome the co-host of the Catching Up to five podcast, Jackie Cummings Koski Plus in our headline, how do You Escape the Holiday Season Without racking up a ton of debt? We’ll share some tips that are proven winners and don’t you worry yourself even a little bit, because I’ll be sure to.

[00:03:41] Fire you up with my flaming hot trivia. And speaking of fire, now, two guys who both were rejected from the hot firefighter calendar. It’s Joe and O.

[00:03:59] Joe: Just to be clear, Doug, I would’ve been fine on my own, but then OG insisted he had to come along and well, well, that was it. Hey everybody. The 

[00:04:04] OG: Australian firefighter calendar, is that what you’re talking about? 

[00:04:08] Joe: What did you say? The Australian hot firefighters down under. Is that not what you’re talking about?

[00:04:15] I’m just talking about the hot firefighter calendar. 

[00:04:18] OG: They just had it on the news. There’s a bunch of Australian dudes. Why do they have to be Australian? That’s only where the hot firefighters are, apparently. Oh, well I guess I gotta move ’cause I 

[00:04:28] Doug: would’ve made it. Do you get to see they’re down under? Is there a website I can go to?

[00:04:35] We’ve already crashed the fire. 

[00:04:38] Joe: We took the hope it and ran it right into a tree. 

[00:04:42] OG: I thought that’s what you were talking about. I just saw the news article about it. They’re selling calendars to help the fire victim somewhere in California or something. Everybody, 

[00:04:51] Joe: welcome to, where’s this podcast going?

[00:04:53] Podcast. I’m Joe Saul. See Hi. And OG is here with me and he’s hoping to get, uh, his hands on the Australian Hot Firefighter calendar, 

[00:05:03] Doug: Mr. Down under 

[00:05:03] Joe: himself, if you know what I mean. You guys ready? We’re now officially in the holiday season, so welcome to Shorten holiday 

[00:05:10] OG: season. I know. Shortened 

[00:05:13] Joe: Compact. Why?

[00:05:15] Yes, the ’cause, because Thanksgiving was the furthest it can be. It was the latest. It can be Thanksgiving late and uh, with Christmas being on a Wednesday, I. This year. That means a lot of people start the Friday before. 

[00:05:30] OG: Yeah. Be included. It’s like three weeks, bro. Get after it. 

[00:05:35] Joe: I’m ready for that party to start now.

[00:05:37] But man, between now and then, oh gee. We know that this is the most dangerous time of the year for people to make mistakes with their money. So the day after Thanksgiving weekend, we always go back to the basics. And this year we’re gonna talk about the basics of the fire movement. Because if the extreme spending happens over here, maybe we look at these extreme savers, people saving 30, 40, 50% of their money.

[00:06:00] But Doug, Oog, woo, and Doug is getting naked. Woo. It’s getting, I’m here. So off my clothes to the hot announcer guy calendar. What’s going on? What do you do 

[00:06:13] OG: down my spy Doug, what are you doing? Do any of this? He has his headphones off and he missed it All he does, he just missed it all. 

[00:06:23] Joe: We just got to say, 

[00:06:23] Doug: what are you doing?

[00:06:25] What are you doing? So, you know, we’re all sitting here drinking our coffee and I’m going towards the bottom of my mug. So I just do a little, you know, a little one of these swirls and I do it just right. Coffee comes all the way out, all over my brand new souvenir. Golf pullover from Scotland and now I got coffee stains on it.

[00:06:46] Dude, you gotta relax when you do this swirl. I gotta relax a little bit. I got a little bit aggressive. This swirl happen to you. 

[00:06:52] OG: That’s really the be the swirl. Doug. We be the swirl. We 

[00:06:56] Joe: got a great, we’re got a great show. We’re gonna inspire you with great saving stories, inspire you with Doug. Heard that he could save 30% of his income and just got a little, got a little crazy there.

[00:07:08] We’ve got an action pack show. Before we get there, we’ve got a couple sponsors that make this free, so we’re gonna hear from them. And then a woman who did not know until she was in her thirties, what net worth meant a, a woman who did not wanna pay attention to her money and before she reached age 50, was financially independent.

[00:07:32] Jackie Cummings Kowski joining us. She also is not only somebody that teaches people how to save, she is the co-host of the Catching Up to five podcast, which is a podcast, uh, specifically for people to think they might be a little late to the game. If you feel late to the game, Jackie’s the perfect person, the perfect mentor for this Monday.

[00:07:52] Heck, even if you’re early, let’s get you inspired to save in December instead of spend the whole paycheck and more. But the sponsors and then Jackie Cummings Koski, I.

[00:08:13] And I am super happy she’s coming down the stairs to mom’s basement. Look who’s here. Jackie Cummings Koski joins us. How are 

[00:08:20] Jackie: you? Hey Joe, I finally get to visit you. I’m loving it. I’m loving it. Well, as I told 

[00:08:27] Joe: you, when we book this, this is one of my favorite podcasting days of the year where we go back to the basics.

[00:08:34] And as I also told you, we’ve had some brilliant people, not Jackie, brilliant but close where we worked our way up to getting Jackie here. But I’m super happy that you can teach us about the fire movement today. ’cause you know, there’s a lot of people, especially near the holidays, you know, it’s funny, I don’t get burned out much.

[00:08:51] I, I truly don’t. But this time of year, I’m always looking forward to a little time off, a little time with family and maybe somebody sitting in a job they hate Jackie going, you know, I don’t need a little time off. Did, did you see the movie office space? 

[00:09:04] Jackie: Yes. That’s a classic man. Of course. Yes. 

[00:09:07] Joe: I wouldn’t say I’m missing it.

[00:09:08] Bob, I see you. I see, I see you’ve been missing some work lately. I wouldn’t say I’ve been missing it, Bob. 

[00:09:14] Jackie: Yeah, yeah. You know, so many people do feel that way, and I do love the basics, like I’m a teacher at heart and even if I’m talking about something as advanced as like a 72 T or whatever, I’m gonna go all the way back to what is an IRA to begin with.

[00:09:28] Well, and 

[00:09:29] Joe: you talk all the time about how your goal, your passion, your goal was to teach financial literacy. What were you doing in your career instead of teaching financial literacy before I. 

[00:09:41] Jackie: Oh gosh. Just kind of sad. Joe. I, I enjoyed the company that I worked for and I was working my job to pay the bills.

[00:09:48] I worked for a global data company. They happened to be headquartered where I live in Dayton, Ohio, and I was looking for a job. I was in my twenties when I started that job. I was there for 21 years when I started. And for years after, I didn’t even know what the company did. Like they used this, uh, they used this corporate speak.

[00:10:07] I just knew what my job was early on. I did like some administrative work, you know, a little bit of spreadsheets and all that. And then I got into sales, sales. You know, you get bonuses, you win trips. And I’m like, okay, I’ll stay in sales. Even though I, you know, I wasn’t doing the hardcore sales. I was like account management.

[00:10:23] But, um, that’s what I did for a long time and it had nothing to do with money or personal finance. 

[00:10:28] Joe: Wow. Yeah. You were, how old then when this light bulb came on and you’re like, oh, I don’t have to trade time for money anymore. Maybe I. 

[00:10:36] Jackie: Oh gosh. When that light bulb came on, it was post-divorce and it was probably a couple years after that, even a little earlier than the fire movement.

[00:10:44] I just didn’t have the right label for it. So I was in my thirties, mid thirties 

[00:10:50] Joe: when I was a financial planner. It was always, almost always these life changes that really kind of shook people. Uh, you know, when somebody was in my lobby, I knew they probably either had a baby, were getting married, just had their anniversary, we’re contemplating retirement.

[00:11:08] You know, a parent had just died. Or a divorce. Yeah. Was it divorce? And now it’s not two paychecks. It’s one that really made you start thinking about the, the budget. 

[00:11:18] Jackie: Yeah. Bingo. It was divorce. Because I changed the whole trajectory of my life. I wasn’t even really into finances before the divorce, like my husband did all that.

[00:11:29] I was even mad one time when he refinanced the house. We got a cash out refi and I had to go in and sign those damn papers. So I, I didn’t even wanna do that. Right? It was kind of funny that I was not into finances at all, but the divorce shook me up to where I had no choice. So I had to start figuring this stuff out.

[00:11:47] And I, I’ve talked about this a lot, but aside from all the emotional stuff and all the, the stress and anxiety and all of that, besides that, the one thing that stuck with me was a financial thing. And it was the fact that I had $20,000 in my 401k, and my husband had 120,000 in his 401k. So he had a hundred thousand dollars more than I did.

[00:12:09] And we were roughly making the same money. I thought we were saving about the same thing. The main difference was that he was investing in different things. Uh, it’s typical. He was a little more aggressive. This was around 2004, 2005, when banks were awesome. So he worked for a major bank and most of his 401k was in that bank stock that was just shooting to the moon at the time.

[00:12:33] It was just very disheartening to see that. And I’m like, okay, I gotta do something different. I have to make sure I’m gonna be okay and my daughter’s gonna be okay. So yeah, that was the wake up call. 

[00:12:42] Joe: So how did you then go from wake up call and I don’t even want to go into the bank to sign these papers.

[00:12:48] ’cause how annoying is that? 

[00:12:50] Jackie: Right. 

[00:12:50] Joe: To now I wanna teach this stuff and I’m super fired up about it. I mean, ’cause the only Jackie I’ve ever known is the fired up Jackie. Right. Aw. The, the, the, you can do this Jackie. You know what I mean? The, let me give you a hug, Jackie. ’cause you’re gonna be okay, Jackie, right?

[00:13:05] I mean, yeah. When did you become this educator person? 

[00:13:08] Jackie: It’s so funny ’cause I guess you’re truly one of my fire friends because that’s how we know each other and that’s the only Jackie you’ve seen. It took me a couple years after my marriage and that’s when I realized the, the emotional and the mindset stuff is so important before you really get going.

[00:13:24] One of my biggest motivators, I grew up in poverty, um, even though I had an amazing dad, he raised six kids on a factory worker’s salary and all of that. One of my big dreams when I was younger was to not be in poverty, to get out of poverty, to be able to pay my bills. That was my big dream. So finally, that is so funny, Jackie.

[00:13:40] Joe: Yeah, because I remember, so my, my grandparents had a fruit farm. Um, and we would all my aunts and uncles and all my cousins, we would all go out and help pick apples in the fall. We’d go help pick blueberries like it was, our job was now. This is in Michigan? Yeah. Okay. I thought 

[00:13:58] Jackie: so. Yeah. 

[00:13:59] Joe: Yep. In West Michigan.

[00:14:00] And what was funny is where we’re so much alike is I remember telling my aunts and I was just making conversation. I said, my goal when I grow up is to not have to work on weekends. I. Yeah. And I remember my aunts going, well, la da, aren’t you gonna be just the richest person alive? Exactly right. It was funny ’cause I didn’t even think it was possible to not trade my weekdays right.

[00:14:25] For money. I just didn’t wanna trade my weekend for money. And they told me that 

[00:14:29] Jackie: was too much. Yeah, yeah. And I was told that too. Maybe it was that generation, but I didn’t wanna work on the weekends. I worked in retail for a long time. I was a manager like Walmart for a long time, and Oh, that’s 

[00:14:41] Joe: definitely weekend hours.

[00:14:42] Jackie: Oh my God. By the time I did like you, you, the salary was based on 48 hours and during the holidays you had to work six days a week. And by the time I did the math, I was barely making minimum wage. So yeah, I, I was loving not working on the weekend. But yeah, so growing up in poverty and running away from that, I was running real hard away from that.

[00:14:59] So when I got divorced, that’s exactly what popped in my head. So it was fear. It was fear of being thrust back into poverty. And my daughter being in poverty. Like I never wanted her to know poverty the way that I did. I didn’t wanna spoil her, but I didn’t want her to experience some of the things that I did.

[00:15:16] It just wasn’t fun. So that was probably the biggest driving force for me right after my divorce where I said, I gotta do something different because I don’t want to be back there again. 

[00:15:28] Joe: Yeah. But back to my question, when did this become fun? ’cause now when did it become fun? Yeah. ’cause now it’s, it’s, oh, this is fun.

[00:15:35] I want to teach other people how to do this. Yeah. 

[00:15:37] Jackie: It became fun when I finally got over the hump where I’m like, you know what? I think I’m gonna be okay. If I lost everything I had today. If I still had my mind, I would be okay. So learning about, that’s the, that’s 

[00:15:49] Joe: the best feeling, by the way. Yeah. 

[00:15:50] Jackie: It, it’s an awesome feeling.

[00:15:52] It’s an awesome feeling. Better than the money by far. Exactly. So I wanted other people to have that feeling. I’m like, okay, if poor little black girl in South Carolina, I. Grew up, got outta poverty, started learning about money and personal finance. Was able to dig out, reach financial independence, and retire earlier than anyone ever told me I could.

[00:16:14] I didn’t do anything real magical, and I wanted other people to feel that magic because that financial literacy piece. It can be so available, but if you don’t have the exposure and you don’t know it’s available, how do you do it? So I’m that messenger. So I do get excited about kind of, and I think that’s why I like to stick to the basics, because if you haven’t heard this message in your whole life, if you haven’t heard some of these concepts your whole life, you can get lost real quick on some of these podcasts or some of the, not yours, Joe.

[00:16:45] So,

[00:16:49] but there’s a lot out there where, and as you know, in the financial planning world, a lot of things are explained with 10 letter words and they are not that friendly. Well, I’m an educator at heart, and so my goal is to try and educate, to advocate for financial literacy for everybody, because if I would’ve had this stuff.

[00:17:13] Presented to me sooner or been exposed to it. So, you know, while we were growing up, there was no social media podcast, YouTube, it wasn’t any of that. And I’m thinking, you know what? If I would’ve had that stuff, I think I would’ve found some of the stuff sooner, or I would’ve started digging sooner. So if financial literacy was the key for me, I know it’s the key to a lot of people and I do realize that the messenger matters, and sometimes I can say the same exact thing to let’s say a Title one high school where most of the students are on, you know, some kind of government benefits.

[00:17:48] Okay. When I talk about, I usually start with the fact that probably everyone in this room is doing better than I did when I was in high school. So they kind of immediately start to get it, and their ears perk up a little bit. And so that’s why I get so excited about this, because I know it’s doable for not just an average person, but someone that might have started way behind like I did.

[00:18:12] So you hear that I, hopefully that came across that, uh, I do get excited about this stuff. 

[00:18:17] Joe: No, you don’t seem excited at all. You, you seem not excited at all. Not like you’re on a mission or anything. I’m on a mission. The cool thing that you point out is that this is way easier than people think It is. It is way easier, which I think Jackie lowers the temperature, like, don’t get me wrong.

[00:18:33] Yeah. There’s some stuff that’s a little technical and wonky, but you can learn that later. Right. The big thing is you say, number one, live on less than you earn. And initially everybody listening here is gonna go, duh. Right, right. But I think that this is about more Jackie than just the budget. I feel like it’s, I feel like your point kind of is.

[00:18:56] Who you are is not what you spend anymore. Like let’s get rid of that. 

[00:18:59] Jackie: Right? It’s like, look at the things that are important to you. Let’s see. So I was having dinner with my daughter the other day. What was the, oh yeah. So she was just saying, oh my gosh. You know, her and her fiance, they just love to go out to eat.

[00:19:12] They’re foodies. They love to try cool new restaurants. She’s always got these pictures. And I’m like, yeah, you don’t need to cut that out if it brings you such joy, but you have two options. Okay? You find other things you can cut out that you don’t care about. Which bingo. She immediately connected to that.

[00:19:27] She’s like, yeah, there’s a bunch of things I don’t care about. And then the other thing was just make more money to take care of that thing, to make sure you can feed that thing. You just are more excited when you’re focusing on the thing you really love to do, and that’s your why versus I need to cut everything.

[00:19:45] This is making me miserable. That ain’t gonna work. That’s not gonna work. 

[00:19:50] Joe: It’s so funny just how simple it is. You, you got two options. I mean, it’s, it’s, this isn’t, is it rocket science Number two thing you have, speaking of make more money is maintain a high savings rate. And the fire movement people have these, these savings rate is so funny.

[00:20:07] I remember when I was a financial planner, just getting people to 10 or 12% was wild. And then of course then I start seeing these people going, oh, that’s so cute. Let’s try 35. 

[00:20:15] Jackie: Right, right. 

[00:20:16] Joe: You know? 

[00:20:17] Jackie: Yeah, 

[00:20:18] Joe: how do we get that savings rate up? If I’m having trouble saving anything right now, Jackie, where do I begin trying to get that savings rate up toward some of these big numbers You see?

[00:20:26] People do. 

[00:20:28] Jackie: Yeah, I’ve seen some people do 70% and you know what? If you’re making $400,000 a year, saving 70% might be pretty doable. But if you’re making, you know, I made an average salary about $80,000. There’s no 70% savings rate unless I wanted to live in abject poverty. And I do hear that a lot, Joe, when you’re doing work with people that are in underserved communities and things like that, they are barely making it.

[00:20:49] Sure. But it doesn’t mean one, it doesn’t mean that that’s a permanent state. Right. Do you always think that you’re going to work at Waffle House? No. You know, that’s probably gonna change. I like to talk about exercising. The muscle is the important piece. The savings muscle. So the amount is not gonna matter.

[00:21:07] When you think you have nothing to save, do you think you can eke out maybe $5 a month? Even the idea is not the amount. The idea is to get used to automating some amount to go into savings for your long-term future. For me, my lesson was behind me, those $2 bills, that’s an uncut sheet of, uh, 32 $2 bills, right?

[00:21:27] I told you I, I was growing up in poverty, managed to go to college, you know, after high school and things like that, you know, struggle, but, you know, made it through. So. When I was in high school, my first job, it was at Shoney’s. I don’t know if you remember Shoney’s. Shoney’s? I do remember Shoney’s, yeah. So Shoney’s.

[00:21:42] Joe: Well, what’s funny is where you live now in Dayton, one of my favorite places, and we would go south to stop, was at the Bob Evans in Dayton, Ohio. So yeah, Shoney’s, Bob Evans, like we’re we’re talking Joe Food. 

[00:21:54] Jackie: Yeah. And Bob Evans is still around. That was my daughter’s first job when she was 15 years old.

[00:21:58] She was the hostess. Yeah. So Bob Evans is a fixture well known. It’s very much like, um, show. So I worked at show. But anyway, we got paper checks back then I went to the bank. They gave me a $2 bill. I thought the $2 bill was special. So I held onto it and every time I would cash my check, I would ask for $2 bills.

[00:22:14] I did that all through high school. Poor high school, poor college kid. On through adulthood, I kept collecting $2 bills. Now I was getting three, four at a time or whatever. Finally, my daughter, she was about 10 years old. She says, mom, how many $2 bills do you have? And I’m like, Hmm, I don’t know. Let’s count ’em.

[00:22:32] We counted ’em. I had $3,800 worth of $2 bills. Wow. So, you know what that taught me? That taught me, when I thought I couldn’t save anything, I was saving those $2 bills. It made it so much easier. I had already worked on that skill and I had already built that muscle. So when it came time to save more, because I made more, that was easy for me because I had already worked on that skill.

[00:22:59] So start working on the skill of saving. Not so much the amount. The amount can be minimal. It could be just a, a token and a representation of you saving something. And then as you make more, you’ll save more. I love that. 

[00:23:14] Joe: Yeah. Well, and I love the challenges too of, let’s see if we can bump it up a little bit.

[00:23:18] Yeah. Like, Hey, if we bump it up a little bit and we can’t do it, we’ll stop. Right? And let’s just challenge ourself to maybe, maybe do more. So there is the next thing, which is once people have that savings muscle, to your point, your husband has this, this, uh, 401k that has a lot more money than yours has in it.

[00:23:38] You became a good saver. But he’s out there investing, right? Right. So he’s investing in companies. As you know, Jackie, people freak out about investing, especially in underserved communities. I remember, I remember talking to my uncle about the his 401k after I become a financial planner. It was 1999 and another uncle had died and we were at the funeral and I’m standing next to him and I really had nothing to talk about.

[00:24:03] I’m like, wow, the stock market’s doing great. Your 401k must be doing really well. And he looks at me, he worked at General Motors, and he looks at me and he’s like, oh, oh, uh yeah, that thing you put money into. And I go, yeah, right. He goes, oh yeah. I never used that. We got the pension. Yeah, he never invested Jackie.

[00:24:20] But people freak out, right? They freak out. They do because there’s so many investment choices. With all the investment choices out there, where do we tell our beginners to start? 

[00:24:28] Jackie: Yeah. Well, so Joe, I was one of those people where investee freaked her out. It really, especially at the time of my divorce, when I realized part of the reason of the disparity was the investing part.

[00:24:39] I was always afraid of investing. Like a lot of people. After a couple of years, I did ask myself that question, what do I like to do? What do I want to do? And it was, I wanted to learn about the stock market. I wanted to learn about investing. So I joined an investment club. Regardless of the type of investments we did, I took away a few things that I applied in every part of my life.

[00:25:00] One, the value of compound growth. Uh, the other one was always save something. You cannot save your way to wealth. You have to invest. I don’t care if it’s real estate, the stock market or whatever. So I, and, and be mindful of taxes. So I went back and I said, oh, why am I not maxing out my 401k fast investing?

[00:25:21] Why am I not maxing out my Roth? IRA fast investing. And I finally put together that, or realize the separation between an investment vehicle. Like a 401k or an IRA or an HSA, which I learned you can invest in versus the investments that you choose to go inside of it. It’s a two step process. And the good thing about a 401k is that it becomes a one, one step process because the company sets up the 401k for you.

[00:25:49] Right? Um, so investing ha had become, or has become one of my favorite parts of personal finance to break it down. And I, I, the way I had to learn how to do this, Joe, I love going to high school. One of the early high schools was my daughter’s high school. When I talk about the stock market, and that’s kind of the basics for understanding how to invest, right?

[00:26:12] And I even get questions about that from young people. They’re very, very smart. So the way I started teaching it, one, I didn’t do a presentation. I created a game and the game was called the s and p 500 gain. So I got all these s and p 500 companies. I had the logo of each, and then I would put up the ticker and I would tell them, before you play any game, what do you gotta do?

[00:26:31] Because you’re a game guy, Joe. What do you gotta do? You gotta know the directions. Sure, you gotta know how to play. So I explained to them in like. Three sentences, what the s and p 500 is, it’s the 500 largest companies. And then I’ll go around the room and I’ll say, what kind of shoes are you wearing?

[00:26:46] Nike. They’re in the s and p 500. Uh, have you gone to Chipotle in the last week? Yeah, I go there all the time. They’re in the s and p 500. What kind of phone do you have? It’s an Apple. They’re in the s and p 500. So immediately I’m letting them know that this is something they’re already familiar with. And then I, I’d throw out the ticker and they would yell out the company or I’d show the logo, they’d yell out the company, and then I would, this is outta my own pocket.

[00:27:12] I would go buy gift cards, 10 $15 gift cards to s and p 500 companies and give them out. I would do drawings for the little tickets, so the favorites for Chipotle, Starbucks. And what was the, I never gave them an apple. Um, they all wanted an Apple iPhone. I’m like, I’m not doing that. So those were the favorites.

[00:27:34] I taught it to them in terms of a game, and that’s exactly how I start to explain it to people. It’s not to suggest an investment or anything, but just to sort of deconstruct what this is, because they’ve probably heard that term s and p 500 or the stock market and didn’t know what it mean. And then if they’re a little bit older, and I know that they probably have a 401k, I always start with that because most people start investing via their 401k.

[00:28:01] Sometimes I would be in a room and I would say, who’s an investor? Raise your hand. And only about half will raise their hand. Well. When I asked the question, the follow up question, who has a 401k or a 4 0 3 B or some kind of employer retirement plan, everybody raises their hand. Isn’t that funny? So they don’t even realize.

[00:28:20] Yeah, it is funny. So I’m an investor. You are an investor, so that’s one of the takeaways or one of the action items for them to do. Take a look at what you have in your 401k and make sure it’s set up the way that you want it to be set up. So yeah, just breaking it down to that. But it is intimidating, Joe, because like you said, it’s a lot of different investments.

[00:28:40] It’s hard to know who’s telling you the right thing. Everything from crypto’s the way to go, buying options, it’s the way to go buying futures, you know, it’s just so much messaging out there, depending on where you consume your information. That just to break it down to simple, in simple terms, goes a long way.

[00:29:00] Joe: You could just keep it easy. Buy the s and p 500, you’re buying 500 biggest companies and you’re gonna be okay. I love that. At minimum, 

[00:29:07] Jackie: it’s the starting point, right? Absolutely. 

[00:29:10] Joe: Yeah, I love that. And you know what, I think to your point too, once you started learning more about it, then you give yourself the chance to get excited.

[00:29:18] ’cause you got some money in there. Exactly. And you’re like, oh. And then it goes down and you go, what did I do wrong? And often you didn’t do anything wrong and then you learn that too, which is cool. 

[00:29:27] Jackie: Yeah, 

[00:29:27] Joe: and I wanted to draw that point because I know there’s a bunch of people listening to this Jackie and you do too, that are sitting at a desk at a job that they hate and they don’t wanna be there.

[00:29:37] And you point out that. Again, keeping it simple, Jackie keeps it simple, says you really only have three choices. You can stick it out and it can continue to suck. Or you can leave and try to find something new. Or you find the fire movement, which means I can then decide that I do whatever I wish. And your point is the fire movement isn’t so much about this rainbow at the end.

[00:30:01] I feel like as it is being in control now for the first time. 

[00:30:04] Jackie: Yeah, it really is. And I was in that third bucket where I had been at my job long enough and once I started looking at my numbers and making sense of them, I’m like, you know what? I can actually cut out. I can cut out. But you stayed anyway ’cause you liked your job.

[00:30:17] Right? I liked my job. So I guess it was a combination of two. So I, I liked my job just fine. I liked my boss, I liked the people that I work with. It just wasn’t my dream job. And I knew, I, I started realizing that I had a bigger mission and I wouldn’t be able to do that and work full time. I wouldn’t be doing half the stuff I’m doing now.

[00:30:34] But I love 

[00:30:34] Joe: the fact, Jackie, I love the fact that you gave yourself the flexibility to go whenever the hell you chose. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like for the first time now you’re like, yeah, I’m staying, but I’m staying because I like it today. 

[00:30:45] Jackie: Yeah, I had a fun writing that resignation letter, but so that’s what everybody has to do.

[00:30:51] They have to look at their situation. Yeah. Some people are just at a sucky, toxic job. Right. But not everybody, some people may actually like their job and they might not wanna run away. They may come up with a three to five year plan, like my co-host bill, like catching up to five. He has decided he’s gonna.

[00:31:06] Pull back a little bit, but he’s gonna continue working for a few more years. Or you decide I’ve been a little too conservative here. I am able to retire now. I, I now understand how to look at my numbers and how that math works when I retired and I was just mentally not wanting to do something different or, you know, just didn’t feel comfortable with it.

[00:31:26] So you have choices and the journey’s pretty fun. My mind was so different when I knew I was leaving work than when I was like grinding it out. Like when I knew I was leaving, I would really push hard on the hard questions. Like, now this was pre Covid, right? Uh, ’cause I retired in 2019, so I was doing a job where I could work from home.

[00:31:49] I wasn’t allowed to, or nobody in our group was allowed to. But all as long as I. Computer, VPN token and the phone. I could do my job remotely, but they would not let us do it. So I kept asking the question, I’m like, I really don’t understand. Can you tell us again why that’s such a big deal? We’ve got other people in the company that are doing, so I just felt more comfortable pushing the envelope because I’m like, what are they gonna do?

[00:32:09] Right. What are they gonna, I I was always respectful about it. Fire me. Yeah. I, and, and that was another funny thing, because I was hoping for some opportunity to do a strategic layoff for myself to get severance in my department. They were adding people, so I never had that opportunity. Now I retired December, 2019.

[00:32:30] Okay. Three months later, COVID hits and everybody gets laid off. So I’m like, okay, great. Yeah. And, and you get that juicy $600 that they were passing out every week. 

[00:32:40] Joe: Oh, you missed out on the 600 bucks. 

[00:32:42] Jackie: Yeah. By three months. I missed out on all of that. But that’s okay. I, I wouldn’t do anything different and I.

[00:32:47] You know, my, my timing isn’t always perfect. 

[00:32:49] Joe: Well, and that’s a cool thing, right? It doesn’t have to be, you don’t have to be perfect. Uh, let’s do some of the things. Let’s get tactical here for a second to help people get that flexibility that you teach. First thing you say is to slash expenses. If we’re cutting Jackie, what do we cut first?

[00:33:06] Jackie: Oh gosh. Don’t cut out things you love. Don’t cut out things that make you happy. I like to almost do like a reverse psychology stuff instead of cutting first thing. Look at the things you absolutely love that are no negotiation. It. You have to have it. Move those things to the front of the stage. So once you got the things you absolutely love that you can’t live without, that just brings you your joy.

[00:33:31] Move that to the front, and then turn around and look what’s left. 

[00:33:34] Joe: This feels like Marie Kondo does it? This is, this is Jackie Marie Kondo. Yeah, there you go. Does it spark joy? If it sparks joy, keep 

[00:33:43] Jackie: it. Yeah. I, I, and that is the way to do it. But I think just, I don’t know, human nature or the way we talk about things, we always start cutting first.

[00:33:54] But if you reverse that it, because frankly people hate budgets because they relate it to cutting and removing things out of their lives that makes them happy. If you reverse that psychology mentally, you are going to go after it with a little more enthusiasm and maybe you’ll actually get to it and not procrastinate ’cause you think it’s a bad thing.

[00:34:19] So that, that’s the way that I do it. And, and we’re all gonna have some things that maybe we decide is worth spending a little more money on than the average person is. And that’s okay. You don’t have to be the masses. But you have to make it work. And you know, just knowing where you’re starting and figuring out, okay, you know, you gotta figure out what part of the formula you need most help with.

[00:34:40] Like for some people, they have an income problem. Well, that might mean they need to get a skill or go back to school and increase that. Some people don’t have an income problem. If you make $300,000 a year and you still can’t make it work, you may have a spending problem. So you gotta figure out where is the gap?

[00:34:56] Like what is the area that you gotta put a little more focus on to make this work the way you want it to work? 

[00:35:02] Joe: I love that. These are my strengths. My income is my strength. Yeah. Or my income is my weakness. Right. And then, uh, where is my weakness? Maybe my spending is a strength that I have, which AK if I’m not making enough money, gosh.

[00:35:15] I remember when I meet with those people when I was a financial planner, they come in, they’re like, we’ve cut everything. Right. Well, guess you have, guess what we gotta do? We gotta figure out how to make more money. Right. Speaking of that, you know, you talk about create a side hustle, a side hustle can be a great deal for a lot of people.

[00:35:28] What are some of the side hustles you see people do that, uh, that really are great ideas maybe for somebody to get involved with? Side hustles? 

[00:35:37] Jackie: Yeah. Well, the side hustles. Right now, it’s probably the best time for side hustles than ever in history. Okay? You’ve got certain jobs that’s set up to be a side hustle.

[00:35:48] Like if you drive for Uber, if you do DoorDash, if you, you know, you might wanna do something like that. However, I love the idea when people think about their strengths, like you just mentioned, okay? Um, even if you’re really, really young and you’d love to tinker with iPhones and you know how to fix them, and you know, the vast majority do not, you start being that person in the neighborhood, in the community, whoever that can fix your iPhone because people are willing to pay for it.

[00:36:15] Maybe you know how to change out the battery much cheaper than Apple. Apple charges. I don’t know, 150 bucks. So if you could do it for 80 and it took 10 minutes of your time, but you know what the heck you’re doing. Some people might be willing to do that. So get creative. I like the idea of getting creative.

[00:36:31] Think about what your strengths is like for me, you know, you pointed out, I’m excited about talking about financial literacy, financial education. So I do a lot of workshops, trainings, you know, I’m the crazy girl that shares her own numbers. Turns out that’s extremely unusual, especially in the financial planning space.

[00:36:47] But I’m willing to share all of my numbers, like what I made, what I spent, my investments, my net worth, all of that. And people, people’s eyes get really wide when they see that. ’cause they know that that money is so taboo. So that’s kind of my strength. So I do a lot of stuff around that, that, you know, a lot of it, some of it’s paid, some of it’s not.

[00:37:07] But it’s so cool, Joe. It’s so cool that I don’t have to base whether or not I’m gonna work with someone or take on a project based solely on the money part. I get to choose and that feels good. I. 

[00:37:22] Joe: It is such a great place to be. But even at the beginning, if you’re fixing iPhones and you do need the money, like just the fact that you’ve got this skill that nobody can take away from you, and your boss can’t fire you.

[00:37:32] ’cause your boss is your customer. Exactly. You know? Now I’ve got my own thing. Let’s finish here, Jackie, by building a dashboard, because there’s some measuring sticks people are gonna need to know as they chase, uh, financial independence. What are some of the big measurements that I need to know? I ask this because you say in your book that, you know, you didn’t know what net worth was until you’re, until like your late thirties.

[00:37:55] Yeah. Which is funny because I read that and I’m like, A, you’re, you’re right. That’s kind of funny. But BI don’t know that net worth is really that important to know. Like, not as much as my investible assets that I can burn. You know what I mean? Right. Like that’s a more important number. Like what, what are some of the things I need to track on the way to financial independence?

[00:38:14] Jackie: Yeah, that tracking part is really important because the average person doesn’t know some of these important numbers. Like for instance, if I ask someone what their expenses are, they will usually tell me what their salary is at work, right? Which is a very different number. So you do need to know the different types, the different incomes, okay?

[00:38:32] Sometimes that’s measured by what is your gross income. That’s what you see in the offer letter, right? That’s your gross income, but then what’s your net income? What’s your take home pay after you get your 401k contributions taken out, your health insurance taken out, and whatever other benefits you have.

[00:38:46] What is the take home? Then how much is being taken out with taxes? Most people can’t even tell you what they pay in taxes. They might be able to tell you, oh, I think I’m in the 12 or the 24% tax bracket, but what? What’s the dollar amount? What’s the number? And some people don’t even think you have flexibility with that.

[00:39:04] When I started looking at my taxes and I love taxes too, boy, I was able to manage some things a little differently that helped me make the decision between contributing to a traditional 401k or Roth 401k one year. I went all in with Roth in my 401k. And you know what? I was a single mom. I lost out on, I.

[00:39:24] I think, uh, it was a child tax credit because I, my income was too much, so I’m like, okay, I gotta redo this. And then I tried half and half or whatever. So know what you’re paying in taxes. Most people can just go to their tax return and, and go look at the first page. What are you paying in taxes? What is your income?

[00:39:41] The gross and the net. And then you mentioned net worth. Net worth is important number for me, that was the most powerful exercise I did around my money. Part of it was because I had to pull together all these pieces that I had never done before. I had an old 401k, an old IRA, my HSA. Oh, is that an asset? I brought that in.

[00:40:00] So this is a great exercise, but you’re right, there’s a big distinction between your investible assets and your net worth. Your investible assets, that’s what’s working for you, okay? If you, for instance, a house, okay, you gotta live in your house. You can’t really use that if you needed to pay something.

[00:40:17] So when it comes to retiring or reaching what they call your fire number, that’s the 25 times your expenses, which is sort of a component of the 4% rule. But getting to your 25 times your expenses, that is your nest egg to live on. Okay? So you don’t count consumer assets like your home and your car and things like that.

[00:40:38] You just gotta count those investible assets. So. Your fire number, your net worth. You need to know how much debt you have. If you have, uh, unfortunately I know a lot of people that do start with a lot of debt. You gotta figure that out. I know it’s scary. Opening the envelope is scary. Getting the emails or the red letters that are saying you’re delinquent and stuff like that.

[00:40:59] But you gotta know those numbers and you, I know I was feeling better even when I didn’t have a win, if I just knew where I was starting and started making little steps toward getting to a little healthier place. So you gotta know your debt. Go pull your credit report. You can actually, did you know this Joe?

[00:41:19] You can pull that every week from annual credit report.com. It used to be once a year. Now you can do it once a week. Right? They made that permanent. So those are some of the main things that you wanna look at where you start, because you know what Joe? It feels so good when you start to see your progress, whether it’s building your assets.

[00:41:36] Whether it’s paying off your debt, whether it’s increasing your income. When you see progress, those are wins. You know, have yourself a glass of wine or a glass of ice, water, whatever you drink to, to celebrate the little, you know, the little wins, the little things. Yes, 

[00:41:51] Joe: yes. It’s about the journey. 

[00:41:52] Jackie: Yeah, it’s about the journey.

[00:41:54] Joe: Yeah. I see people that, uh, do some painful things. They, they don’t have any joy. They don’t, Marie Kondo it, they don’t, Jackie Conduit, we gotta start calling Jackie Conduit. They don’t, they don’t Jackie Condo, the whole thing. And because of that, you know, then they show up at financial independence and they’re like, oh, this isn’t as fun as I thought it was.

[00:42:11] Because Right. It’s about the, it’s about the journey 

[00:42:14] Jackie: and having some kind of purpose on the other side. You know, our friend, doc G wrote the purpose code, having like, some idea of what’s on the other end. I ended up working two more years at my job, partly because I didn’t have what the other side looked like.

[00:42:28] I’d worked in the culprit world, worked a regular job my whole life. I didn’t know anything else. So knowing what’s on the other side, that’s gonna be a big part of it too. Joe, 

[00:42:38] Joe: Jackie, thank you so much for mentoring our stackers today on getting themselves some flexibility. You and I call it the fire movement, but I think for the larger audience, this is, this is just about buying yourself the flexibility to do whatever lights your fire.

[00:42:54] Fire For Dummies, it’s Jackie’s book. It’s available everywhere, I assume, right? 

[00:42:57] Jackie: Yeah, it’s available everywhere. You can go to Amazon and if you have a moment, I’d love for you to write a review, but if you love independent bookstores, uh, you can find it there as well. And you know what, if you just don’t wanna spend the money, it should be at your local library.

[00:43:12] If it’s not, then ask for it. I’d love for everybody to, to walk through this kind of like we just did. 

[00:43:17] Joe: Absolutely. And we just touched on it, by the way. Oh my goodness. This is like 360 pages. Holy cow. Yeah, three 

[00:43:23] Jackie: 70. But who’s But who’s counting? Who’s counting? Jackie, thanks a lot. All right, Joe, this was awesome.

[00:43:36] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s Mom’s neighbor, Doug, and I’ve been wondering how I can contribute to today’s fire episode. Looking back at the, this day in history thing, nothing’s really standing out. Whoa, whoa. Hope I spoke too soon. Here’s one. Speaking of fire, Colombian police, way back in 1993, fired their weapons, no, no, no.

[00:43:59] Come on, I’m doing this on short notice. They fired their weapons and killed the man who was called the king of cocaine in Mein. That’s a contribution right there. It’s a hop, skip, and a jump from fire to fired AKs. I don’t know that that must have set back the drug trade. About what, like 15 minutes, right?

[00:44:24] At least 12. Here’s the question. Who was the drug kingpin they took out? I’ll be back right after I go and ask Joe’s mom for some powdered sugar. We can really mess with OG on this one.

[00:44:43] Hey there stackers. I’m powdered sugar lover, and the king pin of this here basement. Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Okay. Nobody told me that you didn’t just smear the powdered sugar all over your face to simulate drug activity. Oh, kind of burned a little bit. Oh gee. Didn’t buy it for a second that I was a drug Lord.

[00:45:04] But I’m hoping you bought a ticket to fame and fortune by knowing the answer to my trivia question. Neither fame and fortune guaranteed, your results may vary. So who was the king pin? They called the king of cocaine. It was none other than Pablo Escobar who met his demise at the hands of Colombian authorities who fired their weapons.

[00:45:28] See no. Which goes to show again, kids that crime doesn’t pay. And now let’s get back to Joe and og. 

[00:45:41] Joe: Huge thanks to Jackie for joining us and og. I love the idea that Jackie presented about, you know what? Don’t even worry about how much you save at first. If you feel like you can’t save, just save something.

[00:45:53] Get that muscle working and Sure. You know, if you feel like you’re behind, you might be in a panic and think you gotta save a bajillion dollars. And don’t get me wrong, maybe you do, but you gotta start somewhere. So, hey, if it’s 10 bucks, save 10 bucks. 

[00:46:06] OG: Yeah. I mean, you gotta start somewhere with savings and investing and, and also I think that it’s important to know that you have more time than you think you do.

[00:46:13] You know, if you’re 30 or 40 or even 50 and you are feeling a little bit behind, you don’t have to take excessive risk to reach your financial goals. Does it mean that you’re gonna have to make some changes? Yes, you’re gonna have to make some changes. If you haven’t saved any money and you’re 50 years old, it’s gonna be a change to start saving money, undoubtedly.

[00:46:34] And to save enough to retire, you know, let’s say over the next 20 years. But if you look at people who are focused on the fire movement or focused on retiring super early, and they start saving aggressively, let’s say when they’re 25 and they say, I just wanna be done when I’m 45. That’s the same amount of time as somebody who starts saving when they’re 50 and says, I just wanna be done at 70.

[00:46:54] It’s the same 20 years. And arguably by the time you’re 50 versus 25 to 45, you’re at higher income levels than you were when you were in 25 to 45. So you can probably make this happen a little bit faster than you think, but it’s gonna require some changes. And you know, like Jackie said, step one is doing something just like do something first and then you can start really diving into the details.

[00:47:23] Joe: Well, and and to your point, I mean, look at how fast Jackie turned her situation around. Mm-Hmm. From being somebody that got annoyed when she had to go into the bank to sign mortgage, refinance papers, rolling her eyes at her husband, and then she goes through the divorce and. Hey, I’m in charge. Oh, this is annoying to, Hey, I actually really like this.

[00:47:40] OG: Yeah. I’m in charge. I’m in charge. I’m in charge. Exactly. Yeah. Was that was the change? Yeah. 

[00:47:47] Joe: How inspiring is that? Hey, uh, let’s jump into a really important headline we got today. 

[00:47:53] headliens: Hello doling. And now it’s time for your favorite part of the show, our Stacking Benjamins headlines. 

[00:48:00] Joe: Our headline today comes to us from the blog@empower.me, eight Ways to Write out the Holidays with your wallet Intact.

[00:48:06] We know, gee, this is the time of year when everybody gets into trouble. If you’re gonna get into trouble with your money, 

[00:48:13] OG: you might as well do it now. Start early. Bless other people. It’ll be great. 

[00:48:19] Joe: We all ready? Made some mistakes maybe this last week. Let’s start writing that ship. Uh, let’s go over these eight tips.

[00:48:25] OG tip one, set ground rules with the family. You know, this year we did this cool thing, it’s called Elster. In our bigger family, we used to get gifts for everybody. We don’t have that large family, so we used to get gifts for everybody. Yeah. And actually it was my mom who said, you know what, let’s just draw names this year.

[00:48:43] And my daughter Autumn found this really cool website Elster, where, which is a place that you can list the things that are on your wishlist for the holidays. Everybody can list their stuff. It does the randomization. It makes it really super easy. So we’re using that and that’s gonna cut our trip to 

[00:49:01] OG: Fiji.

[00:49:01] Trip to Fiji. Trip to Fiji. 

[00:49:02] Joe: I was gonna say. 

[00:49:03] Doug: Yeah. I’m gonna put a Tesla on there. 

[00:49:05] Joe: I know, yeah. Yeah. For 40 bucks it’s 40. $40 and under, no, wait a minute. It’s $50 and under. But for $50 and under the Tesla has gotta be on sale. If we can find a Cyber Monday sale on a Tesla for 50 bucks, give it time at some point.

[00:49:20] I love that idea though. I remember working with a family a long time ago, oh gee, maybe my second year as a financial planner. Uh, Russell and Deborah, these guys just had a ton of debt and they said, you know what? We’re just gonna talk to the kids, talk to the family. The gifts are gonna be just one for everybody this year and we’re gonna buckle down.

[00:49:39] And they came back in January. They had saved a bunch of money. Mm-Hmm. And they said it was the best holiday season ever. ’cause instead of worrying about the mall and online shopping and spending all this time worried, they just spent time with each other, which is super fun. 

[00:49:54] OG: We did that years ago when money was really snug and kind of the same thing we just said, this is not gonna be a year where we’re gonna be giving lots of gifts to people.

[00:50:02] So we don’t expect a lot. And I think if you communicate that, you know, there’s no hard feelings. On the back end, you know, I don’t think you wanna surprise people with that on Christmas morning, but, uh, 

[00:50:13] Joe: we’re getting nothing, 

[00:50:14] OG: by the way. FYI, this is the year we’re not doing, doing gifts, but they don’t have to be expensive either.

[00:50:20] I, I remember my sister used to make like homemade cocoa, you know, like fabulous packet things. And it was like, this is way a thousand times better than buying Nestle. I’d rather have this anyway. And this is something that, you know, we like and enjoy and can make. And it’s, it was better than getting a, you know, a little tchotchke from someplace or whatever.

[00:50:39] Doug: You know, where we got in trouble when the kids were young was that, I mean, when they’re really young, when they’re like three and four, the stuff that’s gonna make them excited is inexpensive, largely. Mm-Hmm. And so we ended up getting a lot of them because they were a little like, you know, I don’t know, $8 here, $12 there.

[00:50:57] And you could end up getting a lot of them. And you, you know, you get all that excitement of the Christmas joy of the kid opening endless presents. 

[00:51:03] OG: 7,000 presents. Yeah. 

[00:51:05] Doug: Yeah. But the quantity. That sort of stayed the same for a while until the gifts they wanted got really expensive. Like Xbox iPhones Yeah.

[00:51:13] And iPhones and stuff like that. But there were a number of years there where the quantity of s to open stayed the same, but the cost of them started increasing and then we finally had to put the brakes on when Yeah. It was an iPhone or it was an Xbox or something like that. And then, and they were old enough to realize, okay, I got a freaking Xbox this year.

[00:51:31] I wasn’t gonna get 27 other things. Yeah, I’m not 

[00:51:34] OG: as well, I’m not getting seven Xboxes. 

[00:51:37] Doug: Right. But, but that’s sort of what started our thing. And I remember saying, they’re not gonna know, they don’t need 27 things ’cause they don’t know. They’re just as excited with six things Mm-Hmm. As 27 things. But that was a little, uh, argument I lost.

[00:51:52] So we, we got shocking. And so we, we got into that spiral early. 

[00:51:58] Joe: Finally Doug’s like, I don’t need to die on this hill. So, we’ll, yeah. We’ll, we’ll play for another day. Tip number two, crunch the numbers. I think if you’re gonna play test a budget, og, this is probably a great month. I mean, a lot of people go, this is the worst month to have a budget.

[00:52:12] I think it’s probably the best month because if it’s gonna get tested, it’s gonna get tested in December. 

[00:52:18] OG: Well, the time to start thinking about your Christmas budget giving budget is not gonna be in December. You know, because if your income is pretty level throughout the year, which most peoples are, then how are you gonna all of a sudden manufacture the extra $500 or a thousand dollars or $2,000 this month that you, you know, are gonna spend if you don’t pay attention to it or, or give away.

[00:52:39] So, honestly, probably thinking about your, your gift budget is gonna be now, but focused on the next 12 months, not just now. And Absolutely. You know, the month of December. Yeah. But if you do have extra or you’ve got cash reserve. Setting a budget for each person. You know, Joe, you talked about like having, okay, this is our gift budget for, you know, our secret Santa type deal.

[00:53:00] It’s 50 bucks. Setting that, having everybody agree to that and then sticking to it really can help kind of offset some of the kind of what’s, what’s what happens when you go to the store and you spend money, you weren’t planning on it, what is that called? You know? And then you go like, you’re like, oh, Joe would really like this.

[00:53:15] You know, Kabam, you know, and you do it. But the other thing that it does too is when you make that list and you write down all the people you’re gonna buy stuff for, and then you go and everybody’s getting stuff for 50 bucks and then you go, oh my goodness, boy, these are a lot of $50. You know, you start really recognizing that’s a big number in aggregate.

[00:53:32] And I better not go over by 10 bucks or 20 bucks a person. ’cause you know, if I’m buying 15 gifts, that’s a big number. 

[00:53:40] Joe: Speaking of, if you do have a high-end toy, maybe one of the things Bridget Care talked about last Wednesday when she was here talking tech and prices are gonna move around as we get closer to the last week of December.

[00:53:53] Tip number three, buy return rebuy. If the budget’s tight and you’ve got this high ticket item, watch prices and ask for the price adjustment afterwards. Maybe even take it back ’cause you haven’t opened it yet. It’s just sitting there wrapped. Take it back to the store. Uh, return it, buy it at the lower price if things are tight, I think that’s, uh, not a bad idea.

[00:54:12] Doug: I’ve actually gotten burned by that because usually if you try to return it, they’re giving you the sale price, so you’re gonna lose money on that. I’ve had far better success just saying, look, I just bought this a week ago. You just put, I just, I literally just did this for a Black Friday thing and I just bought it like a week ahead and I didn’t realize you were gonna have a whatever, 40% off sale.

[00:54:32] And they just credited me. Yeah. Instead of doing the whole return process, they just credited me the money. But when I know there have been times after Christmas, you try to return stuff that didn’t fit or whatever, and you’re getting half of, or whatever, you know, 60% of what if got receipt. Receipt, they’ll give 

[00:54:45] OG: you the price that you paid.

[00:54:46] But if you don’t have the receipt, then they give you the, the price that it is that day. Yeah, that’ll happen a lot. Yeah. Plus, like you, like, uh, I thought you were gonna say Doug, uh, credit card matching. If you use a credit card, a lot of times a credit card will have matching. Oh, 

[00:55:00] Doug: that’s an interesting tip.

[00:55:01] I didn’t think of that. The credit card does it, 

[00:55:04] Joe: huh? Tip number four and five go together. A tip number four, resist the urge to pillage your emergency fund. Uh, the piece says tough love here, folks. The holidays are not an emergency. I love that one. Hmm. But, uh, tip number five, make it tougher to shop 24 7.

[00:55:19] They talk about building some friction between you and that Buy now button. Stop following brands on Instagram for the next few months. Remove your card from Apple Wallet or Google Wallet, build that friction so that when the holidays are over, you still have some money left and you didn’t just, bam, I, I literally did that yesterday.

[00:55:37] Yesterday I went on Amazon, saw a thing and just went, bam. And that one click order button, just a fricking nightmare. In this case, it was really good ’cause I bought some cool coasters that I think you guys maybe I’ll talk about later. Number six on our list, shop and sell secondhand. My daughter’s become really good at this.

[00:55:55] She goes to the thrift stores, buy some really cool stuff. Mm-Hmm. She has to search a little more, but for her OG time is the thing that she has some of, you know, later on maybe it’s gonna be different where she doesn’t have as much time, but now she can carefully save money by spending a little more time looking at thrift shops.

[00:56:18] OG: Yeah. Or any of those places, right. A Facebook marketplace or something like that. If you’re looking for something that is a little, um. It’s not important to be brand new. We have a giant play scape in our backyard, and we’re not getting rid of it anytime soon. But I was thinking about it the other day because one of my friends has a hot tub and I said something about his hot tub.

[00:56:37] He says, oh no, I gave that away. I said, you gave it away. What are you talking about? You loved your hot tub? He said, yeah, we hadn’t used it in a year. Just sat out there and one of the guys at work said that he was looking for a hot tub. It was easy for me to get rid of. He saved a bunch of money. This thing’s practically brand new.

[00:56:52] I mean, how often do you use a hot tub? Once a month or something that sits there. So anyways, he was able to buy this high ticket item that would normally be seven, $8,000 for a few grand. The cost of 

[00:57:02] Joe: moving it, the cost of sterilizing it. That 

[00:57:04] OG: was also the deal. You know? Yeah. 

[00:57:06] Joe: Wow. Well, yeah. 

[00:57:07] OG: It just has chlorine water in it.

[00:57:09] Doug, just like every pool in America, you have no problem getting in the swimming pool or the lake, my God. The lake that you live at. I 

[00:57:16] Doug: would be so suspicious of a heavily discounted hot tubs. Like, Hey, you want my, my used mattress? Oh God, no. 

[00:57:23] Joe: Not a surprise that Doug can’t even swirl his coffee without getting in trouble.

[00:57:26] OG: Yeah, the big dark lake by his house. Like, oh yeah, but this water’s super clean. Let’s go in this one. It’s full of mud and dirty and fish and snakes. It’s gonna be 

[00:57:37] Joe: way better. Tip number seven, Russell and Debra, who I talked about earlier, did this ditch your credit card and go debit only They actually did the envelope system 

[00:57:46] OG: cash.

[00:57:46] They 

[00:57:46] Joe: took cash and they used do cash 

[00:57:49] OG: advance from your credit card and then live. Take it right outta the envelope, 

[00:57:53] Joe: leave it to OG to ruin every good tip. And then tip number eight, which is I think the important one tip, wrap this up on, remember, you can’t buy love. Still trying to drum up gifts at the 11th hour.

[00:58:04] Brainstorm non-monetary ways to show you care. I’d rather have the, the homemade hot chocolate or the egg 

[00:58:12] Doug: dipper. Yes. 

[00:58:13] Joe: Chex mix, whatever it might be. 

[00:58:15] Doug: Have you ever been to TJ Joe? You can buy love.

[00:58:22] Joe: And there it goes again. Right into the tree. But you can try. You can, you can 

[00:58:28] OG: try 

[00:58:28] Joe: to buy that. You give it the old college try and I failed. Love that list. Uh, we are going to not only point to this list in our show notes, but also in our show notes, you’ll find a link to the 2 0 1 our newsletter, where we curate even more links to keep you on the path toward financial independence and away from blatant consumerism this month when it’s, it’s hard, man.

[00:58:51] It’s gonna be very, very difficult, especially for the spenders out there in stacker Land. Hey, that is about it for us. One more thing. OG and I are coming to New York City, and hopefully as we record this, tickets still, there’s still a few left, but I’m hoping they’re not gone. So, uh uh, stacky Benjamins dot com slash nyc.

[00:59:17] If you’re hearing this, I haven’t taken it out because, uh, because tickets are gone, so get tickets quickly. We only have 85 spots and it is a joint meetup with Paula Pan, the afford anything Community G and his er Invest community. Jillian John Drew’s gonna be there. I just talked to Nick mc, Julie og, Nick Majuli is going to join us.

[00:59:38] Oh wow. Cool. Nick, of course, is the Chief operating officer of, uh, big Money Ri Holt’s Wealth Management. He said, listen to this Flex. He’s like, well, I gotta go on Fox Business, but if it’s not during the, the working hours, I can maybe come over after I am a TV star. Okay, Nick. Ah, 

[00:59:54] OG: okay. If you’re not too busy, sir, 

[00:59:56] Joe: Nick has a fantastic blog called of Dollars and Data.

[01:00:01] That’s what’s coming up on the calendar in December, Seattle. I’ve got details coming very soon about coming there in early February for Retire Meet. Hope you can join me there. I actually am going to have a discount code for you to get in. Hopefully I’ll have that for you on uh, Wednesday. All right. I think that’s it for the back porch Doug.

[01:00:22] What should we have learned from today’s episode? 

[01:00:28] Doug: Well, Joe, here’s what’s stacked up on our to-do list today. First, take some advice from Jackie Cummings Koski, looking to start on your financial independence journey. Get moving. Work that savings muscle. Work it, work it. Even if you don’t think you can save 30% of your income like the extremists, start small and get rolling.

[01:00:56] Future you will. Thank you. Second, take some advice from our headline and make a budget for your holiday spending. Nobody loves the gift of regret that arrives in January with a credit card bill you couldn’t afford, but the big lesson. You gotta watch all the talk about kingpins in this basement. Oh, gee’s.

[01:01:16] Now like wearing chains and talking about how he owns the area over by the peaches he’s offering to quote, keep us all safe from, you know, no og. I don’t know. And I have no idea what sleep with the fishes even means. Thanks to Jackie Cummings Kowski for joining us today. You’ll find Fire for Dummies wherever books are sold.

[01:01:40] We’ll include a link in our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. If you know a friend who’d like one as a holiday present, you’ll also give us a present because it’s one extra click and we also get a little thank you from Amazon. Thanks ahead of time. This show is the property of SB podcasts LLC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Saul Sea High.

[01:02:03] Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know.

[01:02:25] This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Moms Neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.