Should you aim to die with zero, or is there a better way? What role does money play in our lives, and what can it do after we’re no longer here? Diving into this deep topic on today’s roundtable discussion, we welcome back Lacey Langford from the Military Money Show, Doc G from the Eatn & Invest podcast, and OG.
In the second half of today’s show, brought to you by DepositAccounts.com, we dive deeper into giving money to others while you are alive and how that can add happiness to your life.
Be sure to stick around for Doug’s Elvis-inspired trivia question.
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Watch On YouTube:
Our Topic: How to balance living your life to the fullest today with saving your money for tomorrow
Summer Travels: Applying Lessons from Die With Zero (Can I Retire Yet?)
During our conversation, you’ll hear us mention:
- Should we spend money sooner?
- Time bucketing
- Time, energy, physical ability balance
- The worth of spending money on living for today
- Living without regret
- How to be financially responsible without sacrificing too many life experiences
- Figuring out what you want and who you are
- Making a plan to get to where you want to be
- Enduring happiness comes from being the person you want to be
- Pursuing what lights you up
- Giving away money while you are alive instead of waiting until you pass away
- It’s becoming easier to give money while you are still alive
- Giving to organizations beyond just money
- Donor-advised funds
- Giving money now vs. waiting until later
- Having conversations about what you need/want with someone trying to give you money
- Leaving a legacy beyond money
- Having meaningful conversations with loved ones during the time you have together
Our Contributors
A big thanks to our contributors! You can check out more links for our guests below.
Lacey Langford
Another thanks to Lacey Langford for joining our contributors this week! Hear more from Lacey on her show, Military Money Show at MILMO Show on Apple Podcasts.
Doc G
Another thanks to Doc G for joining our contributors this week! Hear more from Doc G on his show, Earn & Invest podcast at Earn & Invest on Apple Podcasts.
Check out his book Taking Stock: A Hospice Doctor’s Advice on Financial Independence, Building Wealth, and Living a Regret-Free Life.
OG
For more on OG and his firm’s page, click here.
Doug’s Game Show Trivia
- How much was the hunka hunka burnin’ estate tax that was paid by Lisa Marie Presley when she inherited her father’s wealth?
DepositAccounts
Thanks to DepositAccounts.com for sponsoring Stacking Benjamins. DepositsAccounts.com is the #1 place to go when you’re looking to see if your rate is the BEST rate on savings, CDs, money markets, and even checking accounts! Check out ALL of the rates ranked from best to worst (and see the national averages) at DepositAccounts.com.
Mentioned in today’s show
- Try To Die Broke (with Bill Perkins) | The Stacking Benjamins Show
- Financial Independence Retire Early Helped Gen Xer Stop Working at 45 – Business Insider
- Die With Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life
Join Us on Monday!
Tune in on Monday when we’ll lift you up so you can soar with your money, basking in the sun of your financial future, all of your hopes and dreams in front of you with John Hope Bryant.
Miss our last show? Check it out here: What’s the Purpose of a Will? Why Would I Need a Trust? (Your Estate Questions Answered with Attorney Tim Semro) SB1559.
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] bit: I am Max Felise neighborly being of sound, mind and body to hereby bequeath the following to my wife Rose, who spent money like there was no, tomorrow I leave $100 and a calendar to my son’s, Rodney and Victor, who spent every dime I ever gave them on fancy cars and fast women. I leave $50 in dimes and to my other friends and relatives who also never learned the value of a dollar. [00:00:32] I leave a dollar. [00:00:40] Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:00:54] I am Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug on today’s round table. Ever read the book, die With Zero? If not, let me summarize it for you. The book’s about dying with zero. Weird, right? We’ll tackle some lessons from that book on today’s episode. Why would you wanna die with nothing to help us? We welcome back The woman behind the MIMO Show, Lacey Langford, and the man who according to a new business news piece, may die with a lot more than zero unless he gets cracka lacking. [00:01:26] It’s Doc G. And finally, the guy who’s worked hard to die with zero, but he just continues to find a way to flourish. It’s og, but this crew won’t just share wisdom around dying broke. Halfway through the show, they’ll compete for the big prize of winning. My inherited trivia question. And now a guy whose childhood home is. [00:01:48] Now a tourist attraction about the Pioneer Days. It’s Joe Saul Sea. Hi. [00:02:01] Joe: Hey there, stackers. Welcome to the, I need to preview the scripts before Doug Reeds the podcast. I’m Joe Saul-Sehy average Joe Bunny, and it’s Friday. So kick your feet up because you know what that means. We’re gonna have a fantastic money chat about, uh, one of our favorite pieces that a popular blogger created. [00:02:20] And before we get to the piece, well the piece is about a book called Die With Zero. And you know what, uh, we will link to our discussion with the author of that book, bill Perkins, in the show notes at Stacking Benjamins. You won’t need it for this episode, but if you wanna dive more into the book, we’ll make that available for you. [00:02:36] But let’s start off with a guy across the card table. Mr. OGs here. og, did you read Die With Zero? [00:02:42] OG: Uh, I did. Yes. [00:02:44] Joe: Would you call that a good weekend read for people that are thinking about starting it now? [00:02:48] OG: My mom said, uh, you don’t have anything nice to say. Don’t say anything at all. [00:02:53] Joe: Oh, so you weren’t a fan of the book? [00:02:55] OG: I was not a fan. [00:02:56] Joe: Ah, that’ll be interesting. We can get into that later. The gentleman who is from our brother podcast, Mr. Doc G Back, Mr. Business [00:03:06] OG: Insider. [00:03:06] Joe: How about that? [00:03:08] Doc G: What can I say? I have a, I have a book to promote. [00:03:11] OG: I’m kind of a big deal. Mm-Hmm. My Home Smells of Rich Mahogany. [00:03:16] Joe: You certainly made a splash. [00:03:18] Um, and for people who don’t know what we’re talking about, we’ll link to the article about Doc G in the show notes as well, but basically, uh, talks about your net worth, but not really about your net worth. I mean, it truly is about purpose, doc. [00:03:31] Doc G: Yeah, I mean, it’s about the fire community and this idea of what getting to financial independence buys us. [00:03:36] And that’s really a big question. I think it’s a big question we’re gonna talk about today with Die Zero is I. You are saving up all this money. What are you gonna actually do with it? And will it bring you some sense of happiness, peace, fulfillment. So Doc, are you [00:03:49] Joe: on Team OG or Team Joe? I [00:03:50] Doc G: like the book. [00:03:51] I thought the book was great. I am definitely Team OG here. I think the book misses the point. [00:03:57] Joe: Ooh, wow. Wow. Oh, this is gonna be great. And joining us to Save the Day, Lacey Langford from the Mill. Money Shows Back. How are you? [00:04:06] Lacey: I’m doing good. I see you guys wanted to talk about death and you thought, who could we bring on to discuss death? [00:04:13] Joe: Who reminds us the most? We’re gonna talk about more Living Lacey. We think about more living. We think about Lacey Langford. [00:04:19] Lacey: Well that’s good to know. I’m really excited that you guys broke down the book for me ’cause I have not read it, but now I’m inclined not to read it. [00:04:26] Joe: Oh, oh, so you’re not Team Joe either. [00:04:28] You haven’t even read it. You’re not even on Team Joe. [00:04:31] Lacey: Well. I have my own thoughts about Die With Zero. I think I was kind of raised that way, so Wow. I might already be in that realm. [00:04:38] Joe: Well, speaking of uh, teaching, you’re raising a bunch of people to be better with their money on the Mil mo show, so I like the Mil Mo show. [00:04:48] Tell everybody what you do on the show ’cause you have a, just a slight bit of fun. [00:04:52] Lacey: Yes. Um, it’s all about helping the military community make, save and invest money wisely. Personal finance and entrepreneurship. And I do like to have a little personality when it comes to money slightly just, just to scooch and make it approachable and be authentic in that whole conversation about money. [00:05:09] Especially in the military community. We like to have a sense of humor and not be a wet blanket. So, um, but yeah, it’s really helping people be better with their money. I’m Mike [00:05:16] OG: Doug. [00:05:17] Joe: Yeah, Doug, [00:05:18] OG: yeah. [00:05:18] Lacey: Doug. Speaking of wet blankets, [00:05:20] Joe: you know, you and your husband both Lacey, uh, have a military background. You were, I. [00:05:25] Air Force. And he was Army? [00:05:27] Lacey: Yes. Well, he was Air Force and Army, which is a really weird combo. He was Air Force, then went into the Army. That’s really strange. But yes, he has two services, but Air Force is the best force. [00:05:38] Joe: Decided Air Force was too tough. And he had to, he had to go to something easier. ’cause I know that among military service members, air Force is known as the toughest. [00:05:46] Lacey: Yes, it is. It really is. My basic training, I think, was leaps and bounds harder than OGs [00:05:54] OG: agreed. [00:05:56] Joe: A friend of the show, Dan Hein, showed a video on social media this last week. He’s one of the organizers of our meetup group in Minneapolis, St. Paul and Dan was showing the difference when people report for basic training in the Air Force versus when people report for basic training in the Marines. [00:06:15] And let’s just say they were slightly different experiences. [00:06:18] Lacey: Was there smoke grenades there? Was [00:06:20] Joe: there it, it may have been a little bit more difficult in the Marines. Uh, we got a great show though. And by the way, thank you for your service, Lacey, and I’m super happy that you’re. In service working with us today. [00:06:33] Lacey: This is a service. You’re right. I am doing a service. [00:06:38] Joe: She’s helping make the show go. You know what also makes the show Go, Lacey. [00:06:43] Lacey: No, I have no idea. [00:06:45] Joe: It’s the fact that this episode, like every Friday episode, brought to you by State Farm, if you’re a small business owner, it isn’t just your business, it’s your life and whatever your business might be, you want someone who understands. [00:06:56] That’s where State Farm small business insurance comes in. State Farm agents or small business owners do and know what it takes to help you personalize your policies for your small business needs. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Talk to your local agent today. Big thanks to State Farm and they’re not the only sponsor that we have. [00:07:12] That makes our Friday show go. We have a few more. We’ll place some of them midway through the trivia, but here is one more that we need to thank so we can keep the show free for you. Lacey Langfords here, doc G, og, neighbor Doug, and me. Let’s get this party started. [00:07:33] All right. Today we, we are taking our cue from a blog post from, uh, one of my favorite blogs, Darrell and Kristy. Such a great job with this blog. It’s called Can I Retire yet? Uh, can I Retire Yet? Dot com. And, uh, our friend Chris Mamula, who’s been on the show a few times, wrote this piece and it is called Summer Travels, applying Lessons From Die With Zero. [00:07:55] Now, the good news hackers, you don’t need to read this because piece, but we will link to it, uh, ’cause it’s great on our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. Doc, let’s start with you because Chris makes a couple big points here. The first one is about time buckets, and this is one of the two big points that Bill Perkins makes in the book, die With Zero. [00:08:16] Can you explain what time bucketing means? [00:08:19] Doc G: You know, I think the concept is that. We have these things, these experiences that we wanna be part of our lives, but they’re better times and worse times to do this, right? So when you’re co in college or just getting done with college, it’s a great time to go backpacking in Europe. [00:08:34] Whereas when you’re 80 and using a walker, it’s probably not as good of a time. So this idea of saving up your money till the one day when you can do all these things doesn’t necessarily match the temporal reality of we either have more time, more energy, or more physical ability at different times of our lives. [00:08:53] And if we’re just continuously saving and not spending, we’re gonna miss some of these seasons in our lives where it’s more appropriate to do these things. So things like avid travel, we don’t wanna wait till we’re too old to do those kind of things. Even if we are not financially independent, or aren’t even as financially stable as we wanna be, the argument is maybe we should be spending sooner at the right times in our lives. [00:09:16] Well, and it’s funny, doc, [00:09:17] Joe: because that was the big message that I got from this book. So, oh gee, I think you’re on board with that, right? Of this idea of, of balance. You certainly talk about, and I feel like, I don’t know, there’ve been some things in my life that I miss and I realized that I’ll never do because I didn’t take advantage of it. [00:09:35] I was either too afraid or being too conservative, whatever it might be to do it at the time. You, you definitely don’t disagree with this idea of time bucketing, do you? [00:09:42] OG: Well, not particularly. I mean obviously when it comes to doc’s example of backpacking through Europe, in that extreme example of, you know, when you’re 20 versus when you’re 80, obviously that’s gonna be profoundly different. [00:09:54] In fact, one of the struggles that I have with the overall kind of fire idea of work really hard and just save a boatload of money and don’t do anything is the fact that you’re not doing anything or you do something and think that’s how it’s gonna be the rest of your life. I mean, personally, I used to go backpacking and camping outside and sleep in in the woods and eat outta my hat, both for work and also for fun. [00:10:19] And I would never do that again. And I could totally see if I were introduced to that whole fire concept, you know, when I was 22, I would’ve been like, oh, this is perfect. Like I could totally do all of this. And then you go to like a Four Seasons one time and you’re like, well, hold on. Yeah, this is still a lot different. [00:10:35] I remember Bill Perkins [00:10:37] Joe: using that same example saying, you know what, I didn’t backpack through Europe, my roommate did. I was too concerned about, you know, making money. He goes, now I’m 55. I got more money than I could ever spend. And I look back at backpacking and think how cool that would’ve been. And I’m way too bougie now. [00:10:52] He, he literally, that was I think, a direct quote. He goes, I’m way too b, there’s no way in hell you’re getting me in a backpack through Europe. But that doesn’t mean I don’t miss it. He’s like, I miss it. [00:11:02] OG: Yeah. It’s not the bougieness of it, although that’s some of it now, it’s more like when you’re planning for the future, and this is one of the things that you know, is a little different when you’re planning for the future and you assume the future’s gonna look a lot like the current does, for example, spending or whatever, whatever you enjoy, you know, or whatever, and you’re like, I’m, I’m gonna spend $40,000 a year the rest of my life. [00:11:22] This is, I’m very comfortable with this until you spend 80,001 year and go, well, that also is comfortable. And it, and it allows me different things. Well, by going from 40 to 80, I just changed my, you know, fire number from a million to 2 million. You know what I mean? And so there’s a lot of people who I think are focused on like, this is how it is today and therefore this is how it probably will be in the future. [00:11:45] Not accounting for the variability. And maybe some of this is, is his point around the, the bucket things. But what I don’t like about it necessarily is the fact that there is a lot of variability in lifespan and health span and these sorts of things. And there are lots of people, doc knows who are 70, who are very healthy and move around well and maybe not get a backpack, but certainly can do extended exercise or, you know, whatever. [00:12:09] And there’s a lot of 30 year olds who can’t, you know? So I get the idea of tomorrow’s not promised to everybody, so, you know, don’t wait for the end basically. If that’s the overarching, you know, argument to the book. I, you know, it’s hard to argue with that, but I think there’s little pieces of that that you have to consider. [00:12:26] One of which is this variable kind of health and lifespan that goes across different people’s lives. It’s gonna be different for me than, than you. [00:12:35] Joe: I feel like the overarching feeling, Lacey, is this idea of living without regret. And I don’t know if like Bill and OG just brought up that there are some things that you know you’re not gonna do now that you would’ve done younger. [00:12:46] Are there any things in that time bucket that you regret that you didn’t do, that you wish you would’ve done when you were younger? [00:12:52] Lacey: Mm. I think being in the military was a huge benefit and that’s serious business, so there’s a lot of perspective. So there are things like, I wish I would’ve traveled more, but then I did travel a lot. [00:13:04] I think there’s balance in everything. And I tried really hard not to go into debt when I was younger, and so that meant I missed out on some trips. But I did get to do some, so I didn’t get to do everything I wanted to do. But there were things that I checked off and you know, maybe some things got pushed down the road, but I’m still able to do a lot of those things. [00:13:22] So I think there’s yin and yang in everything. Like you’re gonna give a little and miss out on some things, but in the long run, like you can still do those. And I think, you know, life is very humbling, especially in the military community. So there’s people that have tried to focus on, you know, having roommates, house hacking, doing deployments, extra TDYs in order to save up money, but then they get injured, they get put outta the military. [00:13:46] Um, so you know, cancer, things like that. Thinking in the future again, I’ll do these things, but now I don’t have the capability of doing them. So I think everything you all said, it is balanced and you have to know what you value and what you want. Some people don’t wanna travel. That’s not something they wanna be with family. [00:14:03] They enjoy local experiences. So I think the grass isn’t always greener on the other side and keeping up with what everybody else is doing is not a good way to have this time. Buckets and, and balance. Getting to do all the things that you want in life. [00:14:17] Joe: No, definitely not. I remember I had a client that, um, he traveled for work his entire career and he had this goal, he wanted a garden. [00:14:26] He wanted to spend as much time as he could at home doing just that. ’cause he spent so much time in airports and so much time on the road and he’d already thought he’d, you know, he’d seen stuff. He really wanted the piece that was different. And I love this idea of, it’s not all the same, but I think there’s some value in this Lacey then of maybe taking out a sheet of paper or a spreadsheet and going, okay, these are the things I’d like to do during this part of my life. [00:14:51] And these are some things I’d like to do during this part and these are some things I’d like to do during this part, kind of projecting forward. Have you thought about time bucketing for the future from here on out to get that balance? [00:15:01] Lacey: Yes, absolutely. I think I had a very humbling life experience. I almost died in, um, the pregnancy of my first son in that moment. [00:15:10] It happened really quick and they’re like, Hey, this isn’t going well. We’re gonna, you know, have to have this baby right now. I thought, oh my gosh. Like one, you know, my son could not have a mom grow up without a mom. But then after that gave me a lot of time to reflect on how I wanted us to live our life and, and have balance, like both of us need to be very present for our children because something could happen to me. [00:15:32] My husband obviously had a very serious business, so we did do a lot of reflection about like, how do we want to raise our children? What’s most important to instill in them at this age and as they grow and, you know, what can they do without. And in our marriage with the kids, all of these things, there’s different buckets I think that we laid out that we wanted to do. [00:15:53] And it was more important than the beginning not to do as much traveling, much spending as it was to be fully present in their lives. With my husband being gone a lot, the close call that I had, that became our priority. So I think again, it goes back to who you are, what you want, but if you don’t make a plan for where you wanna go, you’re, you’re gonna end up nowhere and you are going to miss out on the things that you want, and you’re gonna look back and think, I wish I would’ve done better, or I wish I would’ve done different. [00:16:19] But having a plan, just like anything with your money, planning your life, I think is really important, especially in a relationship when you both have things that you wanna accomplish in life or things that you’d like to experience. And if you don’t kind of get together and have that discussion, then you’re gonna be heading in different directions. [00:16:35] Joe: It’s funny because you know, you could be planning for the future all the time, but I feel like when you and I talk, Lacey, I feel like there’s many times we talk where you’re either. On your way to a kid’s event or you’re at a kid’s event and, and, and I feel like that’s getting is, is that what I’m, what I’m thinking? [00:16:53] It is the, I’m present right now for my kids thing. [00:16:56] Lacey: Yes. That takes priority. Everything works around the kids and our relationship. My business, things will always have to be done and can easily seep into the time that we spend together. So it is a priority. Like the, uh, the time is limited. How many summers I’ll have with them, how many sports events I’ll be able to attend, um, when they have a goal that they wanna pursue, being able to. [00:17:19] Start them on that path, doing the research, figuring out how to go after something that they want in life. So right now, like we’re training them to be fully functioning in adults and go on their way. And if I’m not present, I’m gonna miss out on a lot of that. And then I’m gonna have regret too, like with they have problems later that hell, that was a lesson that I missed out on, um, because I was doing something else. [00:17:40] Like, you know, on a trip to Ibiza, you know, when you’re talking about time bucket, like that’s not the one I should have done when I had kids. That would be before or after kids. So I get like that planning. But yeah, that’s our goals and [00:17:53] Joe: well, yeah, but the helping your kids would be fully functioning adults also can be interpreted as very selfish so that you don’t have a 40-year-old still living at home. [00:18:01] You’re like, hey. This is, this is a more selfish goal than, you know. [00:18:05] Lacey: I’m trying so hard, so hard, but go be free. Go be free. [00:18:10] Joe: Go, go, go. Doc. This feels like purpose to me. You know, taking out the sheet and going, Nope, you know what? I wanna do this. Nope, nope. I want this bucket. Nope, I want this bucket. Nope, I want this bucket. [00:18:20] Nope. Nope. It feels so much like purpose. I think this is probably the wellspring [00:18:25] Doc G: where all purpose comes from. Nope, nope, nope, nope. It feels nothing like purpose. And here’s why. There is a continuum of what I would call cheap thrills to deep and utter happiness. And so on one side you have cheap thrills, and on the other side you have kind of that deep, fuller happiness. [00:18:42] We know that right in the cheap frills place is the like blow money on something short term and not be any happier a few days later, right? So that’s the hedonic treadmill. We all know about that. I think we think the antidote to that is experiences, and I think that’s guff. I mean, I think experiences are great, but then they come and go and they’re gone. [00:19:03] I think true enduring happiness actually comes from being the person you wanna be and you can’t buy your way to that. Money has nothing to do with that. It’s a tool. It’s nice to have the money, but when people die or on their deathbed, most of the time it’s, I didn’t regret, I didn’t take that trip to Italy. [00:19:19] It’s, I regret I wasn’t the kind of person who took more trips and did more things. When you’re on your deathbed, you don’t say, I really regret that I didn’t take my kid to Europe. You say I regret. I wasn’t the kind of person who spent more time with my kids and was more a part of their life and had more adventures with them. [00:19:35] I just think those things don’t cost money. I think what really makes you happy isn’t. Things and it isn’t experiences. It’s pursuing what lights you up and bringing that into the world and connecting to other people, and you don’t need money to do that. So Bill Perkins could have traveled to Europe when he was in college and he really missed out on that. [00:19:54] But you can go backpack around Chicago when you live there and experience a lot of amazing things and do cool stuff and meet cool people, and you become that kind of person. Whether you spend the money on going to Europe or not. Money’s a great tool. It’s fine. You can do some really cool things with money, but I think if you’re really looking for happiness. [00:20:13] It’s not how much money you spent when you die, and it’s not how much money you have in your bank account when you die. It’s who you became and those people you touched. And I just think money has very little to do with that in the end. [00:20:24] Doug: You know, backpacking around Chicago, uh, they’ve got some great campsites like under the overpasses and then down by the river near the Willis Tower. [00:20:32] I agree. Great place to backpack. They give out free tents too. [00:20:37] Joe: The architectural tour. Yeah. A whole different, uh, different tour. When Bill’s talking about this, then, are you saying then, doc, that that he misses a point? Or is this just something different because I don’t, I mean, do you think there’s something wrong then with bucketing out your, your [00:20:53] Doc G: usage of your dollars? [00:20:54] Not with bucketing out, but I think there’s something wrong with saying spend your money and that’s gonna lead to happiness. And so what he’s pretty much saying is, spend your money and pursue great experiences. And while I think that’s jolly and wonderful and may bring you a modicum of happiness, I don’t think it’s gonna give you truer and deeper happiness. [00:21:12] So I think bucketing is fine. I just think it’s beside the point. I think if you’re really looking for what he’s describing in this book, like to do it right, it’s not to die with zero and it’s not to die with 10 million, it’s irrelevant. It’s becoming the person you wanna be and allowing your money to be a tool to help. [00:21:29] But that’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. The stakes are much lower, is what I’m saying. [00:21:34] Joe: Yeah. So do you, I guess. I never thought of this as purpose. I thought of it more as is this what money, you know, what the hell else are you gonna do with your money? [00:21:41] Doc G: Well, I think money does lots of great things for you. [00:21:43] I think it’s a great tool to basically allow you to live a life full of purpose and things you wanna do. I think it’s one of many tools. So if that allows you to pay people to do things that you don’t have to do, great. If it allows you to retire early ’cause you don’t like your job, great, but it’s not either or, it’s just one of many tools. [00:22:01] If you happen to have some of that tool, wonderful, use it. If you don’t have that tool, use your other tools. [00:22:07] Joe: og, when it comes to this idea, bucketing, I mean, you’re right in the middle of this with your kids at the ages that they’re at, you’re losing one from home this year, you’re gonna lose another one. [00:22:15] And in a couple years, this idea of bucketing Hass gotta be on your mind. Now I would think, [00:22:19] OG: well, in another year, Alex is a senior, so I’ve got a year to go and I wouldn’t say I’m losing him. It’s more of like I’m preparing him to be a fully functioning adult. [00:22:30] Joe: I think somebody else might have said that before you. [00:22:32] Lacey: Is that your big takeaway? [00:22:34] OG: That’s what I already claimed it. Yep. Big takeaway. Fully functioning adult. So I think that there’s a lot around different season of spending and being okay. I think a lot of people will wait too long. I’ve certainly been on record a million times of saying, what’s the point of having 10 million in the bank and have never taken your kids or grandkids to Disney? [00:22:55] Everybody knows Disney is a gigantic waste of money. It’s so expensive. It’s insane, but it’s very awesome every so often. Some people like going a lot. I can go once every couple years, but it’s really cool every time we go. So I kind of put that as like Doc was saying around it’s, it’s not about the fact that we were at Disney, it’s the fact that the kids were having a ton of fun, or we did it with grandma and grandpa and they had a ton of fun with their grandkids and you know, we were able to make all that happen. [00:23:24] So money made that happen. So I think that there’s different seasons of the spending that you can do, but I’m also concerned about looking at it from the perspective of like, well, I gotta get all the fun stuff done by the time I’m 50, I’ll be too old. Like, Joe [00:23:42] Lacey: Life’s over. Um, [00:23:44] OG: that’s it. We’re done. And scene, because as Joe has proven. [00:23:49] There is life after 50. I mean, who knew? But I mean, I can’t, I can’t predict what 60 looks like, honestly, but um, can you imagine? It looks a lot like Joe, actually. I can tell That’s right. Sitting right here. Not wrong. [00:24:03] Joe: Is there a way to meet a mic or two? [00:24:05] OG: No, I was just saying like, if you put too much emphasis on like, yolo, which is, this is how I read this and maybe it’s incorrect, but I read this as like, Yolo, you gotta do all this stuff now because you don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow. [00:24:17] Well, guess what? There’s a really good chance you might live to be 90 tomorrow. You know that in your life, or your kids live to be 90 or a hundred or your, you know, whatever, and you have all this opportunity. Don’t squander that at the expense of like, doc was saying, oh, I gotta go have experiences. It’s like, well, recognize that one of the opportunities you have is you’ve got, you know, maybe 50 accumulation years in your life, do some accumulation and then let that stuff compound for a while and see what you can do with it on the back end of. [00:24:48] Donating to the things that you care about or improving the lives of the people around you or whatever. Because if there’s one common thread around, you know, long-term wealth, it’s that it didn’t show up. It, it took a while to get there. Now how you train people and teach people to not screw it up in second generation or whatever. [00:25:06] I don’t know anybody’s got the answer to that yet, but at least I can do my part and, and not be like the grandpa. That’s like gone, well my grandpa made $50 million when he was alive and God only knows what happened to, we went on some cool trips with grandpa, but he didn’t leave us anything. [00:25:22] Doc G: Yeah, I mean, to put a kind of a fine point on it, I, I’ll use my parents as an example. [00:25:27] My parents accumulated a decent amount of wealth and you could kind of look at the Bill Perkins ethos and say they could have bucketed better, they could have spent a lot more, they don’t need as much as they have now. They had no idea that when they would get to this part of life, they decided to live in a independent living community that ended up costing a huge amount of money that they didn’t plan for, but they happened to have it. [00:25:50] And they’re living their best lives now. But they wouldn’t have known that. And so the point is, so you know, rush after these experiences when you’re young, really drain the money because that’s great and you wanna make sure you use it in the right seasons. They had no clue that in this season of their life, having that extra money, they’re happier than I’ve ever seen them in my 50 years of existence. [00:26:10] My parents are happiest today because they moved to this community. They have all sorts of new connections and friends, it’s expensive as all get out, but it’s [00:26:18] OG: because they had the foresight, you know, luck, whatever it was to just go, we should hang onto some of this. We should hang onto some of this. But [00:26:26] Doc G: they had no idea. [00:26:27] They had no idea that that was gonna be their want and need at that age. No, of course not. And they value that probably more than if they had gone backpacking in college, like what they’re getting today. Something they had no idea that they would even need or want. Like it’s really hard to forecast what you’re gonna want when and then try to drain the bank account appropriately when you don’t even know what you’re gonna want in 20 years or 30 years. [00:26:48] Yeah. Especially [00:26:49] OG: when you don’t even know it exists. Yeah, exactly. [00:26:51] Joe: Yeah. But that does have to do with money then. Doc, you said earlier that doesn’t have to do with money. That’s a hell of a lot to do with money. [00:26:57] Doc G: Well, I think the money again, is a tool that allows them to be the people they wanna be, which is these community members. [00:27:02] They’re active, they’re doing things with friends, they’re pursuing purpose. Could they have done it without the money? Certainly it would just look different. Yeah. Lacey, [00:27:12] Lacey: I think it is about money. I hear all of what you guys are saying, but for me the article is more about conversations like this guy, he was trying to have a conversation with his dad on things that they had never really discussed or didn’t discuss to the point that it needed to be. [00:27:26] And for me, in my moment, I know I was younger, but like thinking I might die, I wasn’t thinking about like who I was or whatever. I actually, in that moment was thinking there was a lot of things that I didn’t say that was the only thing I cared about. Like I forgot to tell somebody this. So I didn’t tell my husband how I wanted my kids raised or, or whatever it was. [00:27:46] So for me, this is really about conversations about potentials. ’cause you can never plan everything, but you should start having, we call war gaming. Like, okay, if it goes this way, what are we gonna do? If it goes this way, what are we gonna do? So I think it, it’s really that simple, just having conversations with people. [00:28:04] Joe: Imagine a military family would call it war gaming. That’s so, so strange that they would do that. That it’s the red [00:28:09] OG: team, right? I got a blue team [00:28:11] Joe: and I love that Lacey, because that’s a nice handoff to the second idea, which is uh, and in this piece by Chris Mamula is this idea about gifting during your lifetime, which brings up the idea of these conversations. [00:28:23] I wanna spend the second half on that. And before we get there though, we have at the halfway point of every Friday show, our Friday trivia challenge. And man, Doug, do we get a barn burner going because while OG has 11 Lacey, we got some good news and probably more good news for you. You want the good news or more good news? [00:28:45] Lacey: I’ll take the basic good news. [00:28:47] Joe: The basic good news is we’ll have you just to keep the, just, uh, to make this easy, we’ll have you play on behalf of Paula Pant today. And Paula generally is in last place. Paula actually moved into a tie. So while OG has 11, she has seven and mom also has seven. Doc you’ll play for mom today. [00:29:08] And, uh, mom can’t be bothered with doing trivia or coming down the stairs. So it’s 11 to seven to seven is our score here. Are we gonna see somebody finally move up toward OG or are we going to, uh, COG pull further ahead? We’re about to find out. [00:29:24] Doug: So, Joe, does that mean that Lacey, Paula is gonna go second or third? [00:29:30] Joe: Nope, because they finished last, last year. Uh, she still gets to guess third. [00:29:36] Doug: Okay. [00:29:37] Joe: So we’ll have OG goes first. Uh, Jordan slash Mom goes second and Lacey slash Paula. Goes last. We need a trivia question though. Doug. What do we got on tap [00:29:46] Doug: today? I happen to have one right here. Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s Mob’s neighbor Doug. [00:29:51] On this day in 1977, the king of rock and roll, Elvis Presley died of a heart attack at his Graceland estate in Memphis while the king’s death shocks the world. Where did he die? Doug? Where was he when he died? Uh, he was, um, taking care of some business. Yes. Anyway, sorry. That’s how they say it. Yes. Uh, while the king’s death shocked the world, it didn’t shock his cardiologist. [00:30:14] After all, it’s well known that his favorite sandwich was peanut butter, banana and bacon. That may sound good to you ’cause it’s amazing, but as an athlete, I know you gotta have a vegetable once in a while and no og not one that’s deep fried. Even though I eat much healthier than the king did, I’ve embodied Elvis’s spirit at different times in my life. [00:30:36] One of my nicknames in high school was the marching band king. I think the lady saw me is kind of a local Elvis, and I certainly had the striking good looks to fit the title, especially with the way I shook my hips when I played the flute. You never saw anybody play the flute the way I did. Five years after his death, Elvis’s widow Priscilla, by then, finally, an adult opened up her late husband’s beloved Graceland to public tours to help cover the maintenance costs. [00:31:05] Today’s trivia question is, how much was the hunk of hunk of Burnin estate tax that was paid by Lisa Marie Presley when she inherited her father’s wealth? I’ll be back right after I find my box of bedazzled jumpsuits. They’re around here somewhere. [00:31:21] Joe: There it is. Lisa Marie Presley with the biggest estate tax. [00:31:23] On Wednesday we did a whole estate planning show. Go back and listen to that with the amazing attorney Tim sro. Uh, great episode on Wednesday, uh, to get your estate planning done, og, you’re first. How much estate tax did Lisa Marie Presley pay? [00:31:37] OG: Alright, so this is going to be Elvis’s estate value times the tax rate. [00:31:44] I. State tax. A federal, federal estate tax, I guess we’re not, uh, federal. Yes. Uh, accounting. Any, any local or, uh, municipality, taxes of any kind? Just, just federal. Well, it used to be very high. Um, and he died in when this was, this was on the, this was on the thing. 19 and 70. You weren’t listening at all, were [00:32:05] Doug: you? [00:32:05] 1977. The 70, [00:32:07] OG: 19 77. Oh yeah. Wow. That’s a cool year. So, uh, let’s see here. So 70 and seven, his estate was probably worth the one Infinity tax. I’m gonna say that the estate tax bill was $14.8 million. [00:32:30] Joe: Hmm. 14.8 million with an M dollars doc, you went, Hmm. Does that mean you think it’s [00:32:37] Doc G: too high or too low? I think it’s too high. [00:32:40] I don’t know why. Um, I don’t know how much he spent, so I don’t know how much he had left. And then I have no idea what the state tax rates were. I’m Hmm. ’cause I don’t know how to play this, depending on what Lacey’s gonna say. So I think it’s less, but the question is how much less? I’m gonna say in order. [00:33:02] Yeah. I’m gonna say 5 million. [00:33:04] Joe: $5 million. Well, that gives you a wide birth there, Lacey, between the two contestants. What are you thinking? [00:33:12] Lacey: I think it’s low because touring, Graceland, all that money came after his death. So a lot of, I think of his wealth was built up afterwards. I mean, I, I know he was, uh, holding it down before his death, but I think it’s really low. [00:33:26] So I’m gonna go with my gut. I think it’s 2 million. [00:33:31] Joe: $2 million. So you’re going even, I’m going way low, lower way low. Oh, this is interesting. We’ve got $2 million from Lacey. We’ve got $5 million for DOC G, 14.8 million for og Way, way higher than the other two. We’ll see in just a minute. Uh, we’ll be right back after these words from our sponsors that make this show Go. [00:33:57] OG opened this up with 14.8 million. Uh, Dutchie and Lacey both think that you are way, way, way high. Uh, what are you thinking? Feeling good? [00:34:07] OG: Well, it just depends. Uh, I mean, I know the estate tax was very high a long time ago. 50, 60, 70%, maybe even higher. And, uh, the question is the, the value of it and. [00:34:21] Exemption amount. So it’s only 13. I say only 13. It’s only 13 million now. So what was it, 50 years ago? I mean, way, way, way less. So a lot of it was subject to estate tax. The question is just how much did he have that dude made some records. So I don’t know. I mean, if he had, if his estate was worth $50 million, I mean, he could have paid 25 million in estate taxes. [00:34:45] I, I just, I don’t know. We’ll see. [00:34:47] Joe: Doc, sounds like your conundrum right there. That’s what you were worried about. You didn’t know what the estate tax was, how much money he had. [00:34:52] Doc G: Yeah, I have no idea. For some reason I thought it was gonna be low. ’cause I was thinking like Lacey, that um, a lot of the money has been made since and he lived a fairly lavish lifestyle. [00:35:00] Right. So a lot of people spend down, we think that they make lots of money, but they spend tons and tons of money. He was on his way to die and broke. Die with zero. Yeah, exactly. He was gonna die with zero. So I think la I think I, I’m more confident with Lacey’s number, but my confidence might push you more to thinking OGs. [00:35:15] Right. [00:35:16] Joe: Oh, well, uh, Lacey Doc thinks she might be right. What are you thinking? [00:35:20] Lacey: I’m just really hoping I win for Paula. That’s what I’m really hoping for. She’s a giver. I’m a giver. Lacy is a giver. Yes. Um, no. I, I, it could go either way. Like I have no idea how much the value of a estate was, and if it was much higher, I could be way off. [00:35:35] So now you guys have me second guessing myself, but I’m gonna be confident about it. And I think I’m right, [00:35:41] Joe: Lacey. There’s nothing more profound that’s been said today than it could go either way. Like that feels like the team that scores the most touchdowns is gonna win the football game. [00:35:51] Doug: Doug, here’s a guy. [00:35:51] When he moves his legs faster, he runs Right? Who’s got this? Oh, it’s awesome. Hey there, stackers. I’m self-taught nutritionist and guy who looks exquisite in a jumpsuit. Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Although it’s been nearly 50 years since his untimely death, he’s always on my mind. The memory of Elvis Presley endures around the world. [00:36:15] Thanks. In part to his home tourist attraction, the original Graceland. Today’s trivia question is how much was the estate tax paid by Lisa Marie Presley when she inherited her father’s wealth? Enjoying over 600,000 visitors each year? Graceland is said to bring in an estimated $150 million a year in tourism revenue alone. [00:36:38] That doesn’t include the estate’s, other streams of income such as music royalties. That works out to a pretty good living for his granddaughter. Riley Keo, who’s the current sole owner of his estate. All my grandpa left me was his watch that he smuggled over to the us hidden in his, you know what? Let’s get back to the answers. [00:36:59] OG was over by just 4.8 million. Doc G was under by five, Lacey. Paula was under by eight because when the king of rock and roll died at the age of 42, his daughter Lisa Marie, paid $10 million of estate tax when she inherited Graceland, which means og. Is the win again? [00:37:23] Joe: Hit the rock [00:37:23] Doug: button. [00:37:25] Joe: There’s the button. [00:37:27] Have people laughing ’cause OG won again. Oh my goodness. You guys let him pull further ahead. Nice job, og. I tried. It was a valiant effort by me. I was close to the usual. You were so close. I wish you would’ve said six. Yeah. If you would’ve only said six instead of five. Nice job. Only missed it by 0.2. OG Acceptance speech time? [00:37:47] OG: Uh, nope. I’m good. Just, uh, pretty soon we’ll be dormy. It’s hard to call that in August, but, um, but we will. We’ll see [00:37:57] Joe: unstoppable. That distance is getting wide. Somebody needs to go on a five week streak just to tie you, but we’ve seen weird things happen when it comes to the trivia, especially in the fall. [00:38:07] Let’s do the second half of this podcast. The second half is brought to you by deposit accounts.com dot. You know what happens if you go to deposit accounts.com, you [00:38:15] Doc G: find something out about brick and mortar institutions you didn’t know [00:38:18] Joe: you do, and that’s that, that they may not have your best interest rate at heart because the national average in a savings account. [00:38:27] When you go to deposit accounts.com from LendingTree, you’ll see right on the front page what the national averages and get this guys national averages. We record this a little bit early, so go to deposit accounts and check it out for yourself. National average is half a percent. So that brick and mortar bank, if you’re getting half a percent, you’re getting the national average. [00:38:44] Now, if you’re at Wells Fargo, or if you are at Bank of America, I will tell you you’re not even close to the national average. However, if you’re in the top 1% of all savings accounts, hundreds of companies, 4.91% this week down just a little bit, we were up at five a week ago, compare more than 275,000 deposit rates from over 11,000 banks of credit unions. [00:39:03] All for free. Head to deposit accounts.com. Let’s dive into the second piece, which Lacey, you alluded to with your comment that this is about conversations. The second part is giving While you are alive, can you explain what, what this concept’s all about? [00:39:24] Lacey: Yes. You know, the money that you’ve saved. Giving it to the people that you love or the people that you want to benefit from it so you can see them enjoy it while you’re still alive and maybe partake in it. [00:39:35] You know, if in the article they’re talking about going on a trip together with the family, so you are paying for that trip, but you’re also getting to see your family enjoy it and, and have somebody to do that trip with. So I, I think that’s really important, being able to see people enjoy the money that you intend to give them anyway. [00:39:53] I do think, again, goes back to balance though, that, you know, you never know what’s gonna happen and you know why you might need that money. Or maybe a family member, for example, a divorce. You know, maybe your child doesn’t have enough money to go through with their divorce and you end up giving money to get them set back up and reset their life or a, an illness. [00:40:13] And so I think there’s balance in, in giving the money while you’re still alive, but also making sure that you can still cover down on the things that you wanna be able to help with. I. [00:40:22] Joe: Oh gee. We have bigger topics on Wednesday really to cover with Tim Ro and estate planning, but we did flirt with this a little bit. [00:40:30] Why do you think that more people don’t give away money when they’re alive and they wait until death? Is it what Lacey’s talking about this fear of running out? [00:40:39] OG: Well, I’m sure that’s some of it, although I, I bet that the tide is shifting there. I was reading something from Schwab the other day, and I don’t remember the exact number so I’m gonna totally screw it up, but it was something like $2 billion was, was donated through their donor-advised fund program or some very large amount. [00:40:59] And I think the barriers to some of these more quote unquote complicated giving strategies are coming down and you know, this is a cost structure thing becoming a little bit easier to manage, a little bit less costly. So people are having accessibility. I. I think it’s important to think about the future when it comes to those organizations that you care about too, because quite frankly, some of them are really bad at managing money. [00:41:23] One of the organizations that we donate money to came out the other couple of weeks ago and mentioned that somebody pretty much stole it all. They’re like, yeah, sorry, what? Somebody stole it. Our bad. We just didn’t have the protections in place like we should. You know, this is a small town thing. We’re just all butchers, bakers and candlestick makers, and it was, you know, it was like half a million dollars almost, and oh, you know, this person got caught and is gonna serve some pretty substantial penalties because of it. [00:41:53] But the thing like Tim was talking about on on Wednesday, one of the benefits of donating money today is that you can see how it’s being handled Before you could just go, oh, I’m totally gonna give 20% of my network to this thing that I really care about. And then finding out that they don’t have any financial controls in place. [00:42:09] So this was a good opportunity. It was a big dollar amount for sure, but, but it’s a good opportunity to find out like, okay, we, we need to support this organization in a different way. The money certainly helps, but we also have a lot of resources, skills, and talents that my wife and I can use to help create the systems around making sure this doesn’t happen again. [00:42:30] Versus going when I’m dead, you can have $2 million and I hope you do it right. [00:42:35] Joe: I’m glad you brought that up HoChi, because when Chris Field was on the show, he was talking about how organizations need your money, but they need your skill even more. Yeah. A lot of times you can throw a few hundred dollars in the pot, but like for us, we know more about social media, we know more about Right. [00:42:47] You know, making podcasts. We’ve got these things that can help a nonprofit a lot, and those are thousands and thousands of thousands of dollars to hire these consultants. Instead of you do that for free, that beats the hell outta giving ’em 500 bucks. [00:43:00] OG: Well, I think the other part of giving is delaying your giving and now because of the opportunities to invest money and use things like donor-advised funds for charitable intent, you still get the benefit. [00:43:12] You still get the feel good of tax deductions and all that other sort of stuff, but you can say, look. I’m gonna give you some now, but I also know that if I let this money sit here and grow, I know it’s gonna turn into a bunch. We started a 5 29 plan for one of our nieces when she was born and we just put $50 a month into it. [00:43:29] There are lots of months where we didn’t, because we didn’t have the money when we were younger and basically kind of forgot about it, just kind of on autopilot. $50 is some money, it’s not a lot, but it was enough that over the course of her whole life, she’s 18 now, she has like $11,000 in a 5 29. That didn’t exist in her world until she graduated. [00:43:49] Like literally, she’s going to college, she’s doing her thing, and because of this little bit that we did for a long period of time, it was a much bigger number. And so I, when I look at giving and the people around us and stuff like that, I would much rather support it in that manner or I know Doc hates this, but, or doing experiences because I’m gonna do it anyway. [00:44:08] So I might as well bring some people I’d like with me. Notice how, by the way, Joe’s never invited any of us on any of his trips. Weird, but, um, I digress. He’s like, ’cause I would never travel with you idiots. That’s why. But I would much rather support that because I know the impact. I know like, I can give you 50 bucks, you know, every month as cash and that’s good for you. [00:44:32] Or I could put it in 5 29 and in 20 years from now I’ll give you 15 grand. Like, that’s a huge, huge gift relative to the amount of money that I’ve put in. So I think it’s a balancing act of both, both money today, but then also because of these tools, you can let your money compound and have some flexibility in the future. [00:44:53] Joe: Doc Chris in this piece is, uh, his dad tried to give him some money and, and tried to live this, uh, idea of giving it now and Chris said no. And he said part of it was selfless. He said, I wanted my dad to enjoy it. The other part was, I don’t need your help. This idea that. Somebody’s giving you something today also is a little bit difficult as a receiver sometimes. [00:45:14] I think, [00:45:15] Doc G: you know, it all depends how you look at it. Part of the problem of waiting till you get older to give money is by that time your kids are older and they’re probably in a pretty stable state where they don’t need it, just like Chris didn’t need it right now. If he was having financial problems, he would’ve very much welcomed it. [00:45:30] But it does then make you think about things like, my kid’s going to college. Maybe now is the time to give him that money so he doesn’t have to go, come out of it in debt. Or, my kid just got outta school. Housing prices are really high. He’s got a great job, but you know what? He doesn’t have the money for the down payment for that first house. [00:45:46] Let’s get him into a house so he can continue to build wealth and yet have a place to live. So I do get this idea that. There are seasons in other people’s lives where they need your money more than other seasons. And sometimes giving earlier allows you to actually help them and give them the money when it can have the most impact, as opposed to at a time when maybe they’re kind of stable financially already. [00:46:08] OG: Well, and as long as it’s not for a consumption thing, it’s like, I’m gonna give my kids some money for a car. Like, whatever, dude. Like, don’t do that. But like your house example, I think you’re just moving money from one pocket to the other. You’re, you’re still, that money is still invested, right? If you live in a high cost living area and you’re trying to buy a million dollar starter house in San Francisco and it, you know, you don’t have the 200 K to put down and you have extra that 200,000 sitting in your investment account, or you can put 200,000 in equity of real estate. [00:46:41] There’s a lot of ways to structure it so like it’s still yours or whatever. Like you could get nitpicky with that, but you’re not doing anything. It’s just moving from one side of the balance sheet or one, one part in the balance sheet to a different part. It’s still an asset, it’s still in equities, it’s still growing, and so I think people look at it as an expense, but if you have the capital and it’s purely excess, you know, you’re really just moving it to another equity investment. [00:47:03] Or another thing, starting a business, helping a kid start a business is another great example. You’re moving it from your s and p fund to a really, really, really tiny micro micro cap company of an ice cream shop or something. So I don’t look at that as much of a gift as it is. You’re just diversifying your portfolio. [00:47:22] But still, if [00:47:23] Joe: somebody needs transportation, if a kid needs transportation at work, like Doc was saying, there’s times when they’re struggling. Like give ’em a car. I mean, you poo-pooed the car, but the car can be an investment. [00:47:32] OG: When I’m thinking, and it’s not an investment, I’m thinking about it like. Don’t buy your kid a brand new car. [00:47:37] You know, if somebody around you needs transportation, you can find a vehicle that will transport them for 10 grand. That’s a way different thing. Get ’em a bus, pass it or an Uber account or whatever, right? Just say, I’m gonna cover all your Uber stuff for the next year, or, that’s probably gonna be less expensive anyway. [00:47:52] You know, so you can solve that problem without, you know, I’m, I’m thinking like, don’t get your kid a new Mercedes. That’s not an investment in my kid. Versus spending the same amount of money on helping them buy a home, which is, you know, you’re building equity there. [00:48:08] Joe: Lacey, I wanna get to what you brought up, which is about, this is about conversations for me, accepting a gift. [00:48:14] I remember in high school, just the gift of people giving you their thoughts, giving you their knowledge. I was a cross country runner in high school. I get done with a meet. There was a dad who knew a lot about cross country. His name was Mr. Rowley and Mr. Rowley, my dad, or standing there, Mr. Rowley goes nice race. [00:48:35] And I said, oh, well, you know, the second mile. I didn’t do that well. And I really felt pretty bad going up that hill. And I, I probably should have done this, this, this, this, this. I remember my dad giving me a, that was a gift. And my dad then reminding me that that was a gift as we got to the car. And he’s like, when Mr. [00:48:53] Rowley gives you a gift like that, just say thank you. Yeah. Like, just say thank you. And I felt like Chris was kind of failing that, like, not accepting the fact that this didn’t mean as much. It meant a lot to him, but it also meant a lot to the person giving it, you know, there was two sides of that. How is this about conversation, this idea of gift giving during your life? [00:49:13] Lacey: Well, it sets expectations on both sides, and I don’t know how to say it politely, but I feel like this was a lot of a, a rich problem, like somebody trying to give you money and you don’t need it. And for most people, that’s not the reality of their world. They, they need the money and so they go, they are gonna accept the gift. [00:49:33] And if you are in the position where you don’t need it, it might be that the money’s given to somebody else because you don’t need it. You come from a family. That one you have a network of, of people that can help you solve problems. Financially or whatever they are. And so giving it to somebody else that might need it. [00:49:50] But I feel like that’s a conversation to have early on is, hey, these are actually things that we could use the money for that would be helpful to us. And, and having a conversation about the experience. Okay, we could go on a vacation together and where they wanna go. ’cause some people might be like, well that’s not someplace I wanna go and you got teenagers and we’re gonna go and they’re just gonna complain the t the whole time. [00:50:09] So it’s just gonna be a miserable experience for everybody. And so I think having a conversation about what you need and what you want in order for the person trying to give you money to be able to align that. And if you don’t need it or want it, then be able to give it to something a, a person or a cause that. [00:50:26] That it really truly could help somebody in their local community, somebody at their church that just lost a spouse or a single mom or something like that, that really could use the money or advice. I think that’s also too really huge is, Hey, this is how you should invest your money that’s given to you, or this is how you live below your means, or whatever it is that can help move them along in life, but having a conversation, everybody just seems to be in different directions if you’re not talking about it. [00:50:51] Joe: I do love this idea presented at first in Die With Zero, but then Chris kind of twisted Doc into accepting the gift and then having this conversation that Lacey’s talking about around the gift is alignment. Then a part of purpose, because what we get at the end of this piece is Chris and his dad begin to become in alignment with, dad wants to give him money. [00:51:12] Chris doesn’t want the money. They end up through serendipity. We’ll just leave it at that through serendipity, having this wonderful conversation, Lacey’s talking about, about what might be an important gift. Does that help with purpose? [00:51:25] Doc G: You know what’s I think really interesting about that is we think about, and we’ll see if this answers your question, but I think it’s important about the conversation, is we think a lot about inheritance and giving people money, but actually one of the important things we actually leave our children and grandchildren, et cetera, are our stories, our legacy, our beliefs, the things we’re good at. [00:51:47] Like all of that is legacy and impact. This conversation started about money, but probably ended up being really just a deep conversation about what’s important to me and what do I wanna leave in this world, and what do I want to pass on to you and your kids other than just I. Here’s a bunch of cash. [00:52:03] And so I think those conversations do lead to alignment. They, they lead to talking about what I call generational growth. Like what are the things I have to give to the world that hopefully will pass on to you and the, and the kids, my stories, my beliefs, my skills, my mindset. Like what are all these things I can pass on to you? [00:52:22] And I think inadvertently, maybe some of that conversation started with them talking about the money, but probably really got into a deeper discussion of what’s my legacy to be right? When am I gonna leave you all after I’m gone? [00:52:35] Joe: It’s funny, I’ve had two deaths in my family in the last two and a half years when, when my brother died, there were a lot of conversations that didn’t happen. [00:52:42] And uh, I’m still frustrated, still a little angry about my brother dying. My dad passed away recently. And he and I got to have lots of time together. And I think, doc, you’re right about the experiences, although the experiences together are the things that I’ll remember. But to to your point, it’s not that we went to Michigan Speedway together and watched nascar, something we both like, or we both watched our Spartans in the NCAA tournament together and did some of these things. [00:53:04] It was much more the fact that we were the people that could do those things together and talked. He died not that long ago, and I already feel much more at peace about that than I do about my brother dying. [00:53:15] Doc G: Yeah. I mean, any death is tough. We go through a mourning period and a feeling of guilt and a feeling of disconnection. [00:53:23] That mourning period tends to be easier when you feel like the person remains with you and they tend to remain with you. When you have those deeper conversations, when you have those connections where you’re like. They might not be here physically, but we had that time, that moment, that connection. And yes, that does sometimes revolve around experiences, but I really think it revolves around thoughts and beliefs and ideas and connection. [00:53:46] That’s what we wanna really take. I mean, I, I, I deal with a lot of dying people, right? This is something I deal with all the time. You want those people to live on, and the way they live on is not the experience. And, and it’s not the money, it’s the connection you had with them and those beautiful things they pass on about who they were. [00:54:04] It’s their stories, it’s their beliefs, it’s their knowledge. It’s that their grandkids do something in a certain way or say something in a certain way, and it came from their grandparent. [00:54:12] Joe: Assuming that you agree with that, Lacey. So if we’re really talking about Die With Zero. Die with Zero, does that really mean dying with zero of these unsaid conversations left inside about getting them out? [00:54:25] I. [00:54:26] Lacey: Oh, I completely, yes, I think that you should get it all out money. I think you should have a little left, a little wiggle room. But yeah, the conversations, that stuff you don’t want at that moment. You don’t wanna look back and think, I wish I would’ve said that. Even if it’s just something kind. Like, I really appreciated this one time that you helped me. [00:54:42] A lot of people don’t know the struggles that you’re going through and they could have had a positive impact and you had no idea because you never mentioned that to them. And you don’t wanna look back and be like, man, I wish I would’ve told them that, or wish I would’ve told them what my beliefs were or the things that I enjoyed. [00:54:58] Um, my grandmother’s 96 and she tells stories about like her favorite Christmas and very excited ’cause they all got a Milky Way. It was during the depression. That was a really big deal, I guess, to get a candy bar. And so being able to share like how far her family has come. At Christmas when everybody’s opening much nicer gifts in a milky way, that this is something that’s really important to her. [00:55:17] So I’m all about conversations and the people that you’re with. I think that’s much more important than money that can be worked out, but relationships and your family and the people that mean the most to you, and leaving nothing unsaid again, leaving that zero I think is important. [00:55:32] Joe: I was at a conference just recently and making that point about how important these were. [00:55:36] One of the main stage speakers. We’re talking about how your parents, grandparents, somebody that they often remember very much, and if they don’t remember them, at least they’ve heard stories about them from their parents, and you’re all you wanna know about your grandparents, right? The main stage speaker said maybe 250 people in the room said, how many of you know the first name of one of your great grandparents? [00:55:58] One great grandparent. I think there were maybe four people in the room that raised their hand that knew the first name of their parents’. Grandparent. Mine [00:56:07] OG: is great. [00:56:08] Joe: Oh, yours was great. [00:56:11] OG: They all have the same name. As a matter of fact, it’s so easy. It’s great Grandmama and great-grandpa. [00:56:16] Joe: Oh, there they are. [00:56:17] Yeah. You know ’em all. Bang. Yeah, it was pretty wild though. How much of that stuff ties with people, right? How much our own heritage ties with people. All right. On that modeling note, I think we’ll go ahead and wrap it up and let’s leave this on a row. Uh, let’s find out. Well, on that great note, eventually [00:56:34] OG: your great grandkids will never know your first name. [00:56:38] Joe: You will [00:56:38] Lacey: be [00:56:38] Joe: erased. Eh? There it is. Erase. Who’s a comedian that said Erased Erase. So [00:56:45] Doug: Doug, who is that race? I don’t remember his name. But he would also say Delete. [00:56:48] Joe: Delete, delete. Yes. Right. Let’s find out what all of you are doing here, by the way. I love the piece by Chris Mamula. I don’t know if you guys agree with that, but I do love this piece. [00:56:58] I love what he takes it and does with it, talking about his relationship with his dad. So again, we’ll link to that. I also like Bill Perkins book Die With Zero, which will also link to our interview with Bill just because it creates all these conversations. It has created so many conversations, this community. [00:57:13] So whether you agree or disagree with the premise, the fact that I see so many of these conversations all the time after he wrote the book is kind of the purpose of writing the book. You know? So we talk about what our values are. Oh gee, what do you got going on this weekend, this mid-August doldrums of August weekend. [00:57:28] I. [00:57:28] OG: No doldrums around here. Um, well, my wife has decided that it’s a great idea for her to abandon the family and go to New York for the weekend. [00:57:37] Lacey: So the nerve, well, there’s no passive aggressive guilt. [00:57:40] OG: The nerve. It’s fantastic. She’s like, does it [00:57:41] Joe: sound like Lacey? Maybe there’s a conversation that needs to maybe happen there. [00:57:44] Yes. I, I’m, I’m [00:57:45] OG: here. She’s like, I’m leaving on Thursday. I’m gonna need to take the kids to school and I can find my own way to the airport. I’m like, well, that’s a good thing because I sure as hell wasn’t taking you because you can’t [00:57:55] Lacey: handle those two things. Getting the kids to school, getting her to the airport and get [00:57:59] OG: her to the airport. [00:58:00] Let the door hit you. I know. [00:58:02] Lacey: Yes. [00:58:02] OG: See ya. It’s [00:58:03] Lacey: your moment to shine. You [00:58:04] OG: don’t expect me to be a juggler. Oh, I am the expert. So the, my boys have figured out that I will DoorDash anything that they want. So the last time we were home alone, the uh, Lord speak about being a present father. Right there. Good boy. [00:58:16] Exactly. It’s all about experiences. Remember that time when dad got his take out filets from the really fancy steak place? That was so awesome. [00:58:24] Joe: Awesome. Later on, they’re writing their memoir about the reason they had to have angioplasty at 27 is because of the fact that dad bought a fried food door dashed. [00:58:35] OG: Oh, filets are not fried. I mean, it’s just a They’re heavily buttered. Yeah. Just of [00:58:42] Doug: butter. [00:58:43] OG: Right? That doesn’t get into the meat. That’s the outside. Just eat, just it’s little bits around the, it’s just a little Butter Butter’s Good for you. [00:58:51] Joe: It’s Protein OG is, uh, door Dashing del Frisco for his kids. How did you know [00:58:57] OG: that’s exactly what it was? [00:58:58] Did you see it on the credit card receipt again? I didn’t, [00:59:02] Joe: I Oh. And billing it to the company to say, wait, what? It was a marketing meeting. Doc G, what’s going on at the Earner Invest podcast? [00:59:13] Doc G: So we have a rewind week, the week this is playing, but the next week on Monday we have Matt Alt Mix and Joel Lars guard from How to Money and we’re talking about the difference between lifestyle creep and intentional spending growth. [00:59:27] Those two res Exactly. I like to have ’em on the show once a year. They’re just two of my favorite guys and they have a wonderful podcast and it was great to have ’em on. Earn and Invest. You might laugh just [00:59:36] Joe: a little bit and learn something at the same time. Definitely. Speaking of laughing and learning, Lacey, thanks for hanging out with us again. [00:59:42] I think we laughed and we learned. [00:59:44] Lacey: Yes. Thanks for having me on to talk about living and leaving Zero behind. It was a very, um, this is the toughest conversation I think I’ve ever had on this show. [00:59:55] Joe: Yes, you’re welcome. Thank you. Anything we could do, we saved the good ones for you, Lacey. Thank you. What’s going on at the MIMO show lately? [01:00:01] Mm, [01:00:03] Lacey: lots going on. I’ve had like a back to basic series that I just wrapped, keeping things simple from budgeting to learning about the throw savings plan to investments. I’m getting to have a show on rebuilding your financial wealth after therapy and marriage counseling with a, um, accredited financial counselor. [01:00:22] So yeah, lots of good things coming out. Well, [01:00:25] Joe: that is great. And by the way, if you don’t use the thrift savings plan and you’re a federal employee or a military member, what are you doing That’s one of the best 401k plans in the United States. [01:00:34] Lacey: Yes. Thank you for saying that out loud. [01:00:35] Joe: No, that’s a great plan. [01:00:36] Fantastic. You know what else is great? Doug’s finished to this show. Doug, what should we have learned on this episode? [01:00:45] Doug: Well, Joe, here’s what’s stacked up on our to-do list based on what we learned first. Don’t forget the nearly genius thing that Lacey Langford told us to do, which was this. [01:00:58] Lacey: Am I supposed to say it? [01:01:00] Joe: Yes. No, he generally tees you up and you don’t say it. You just let the cricket through. Oh no. This is [01:01:04] OG: Doug not doing his job anymore. [01:01:07] Joe: This is Doug being lazy Lacey. [01:01:10] Lacey: Um, okay. That you should raise fully functioning adults. [01:01:15] Doug: And second, coming from Doc G, what you got with us, for us to [01:01:20] Doc G: US Doc, take a lesson from Bill Perkins, but not exactly, I think you should die with zero also, just not zero money, die with zero regrets. [01:01:31] Oh, [01:01:31] OG: well that’s pretty awesome. Am I trying to show everybody up? [01:01:34] Doug: But what’s the biggest to do while you’re on that hedonic treadmill plan in your financial future? Make sure to have a multimillionaire grandparent who will love you tender and leave their estate to you. It’s the best way I’ve found earned passive income and set yourself up for early retirement. [01:01:55] You’re welcome. Thanks to Lacey Langford for joining us today. You’ll find the MIMO show wherever you are listening to us. Right here. We’ll also include links in our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. Thanks to Doc G for hanging out with us today. You’ll find his fabulous earn and invest podcast wherever you listen to finer podcasts. [01:02:17] And thanks also to OG for joining us today. Looking for good financial planning. Help head to Stacking Benjamins dot com slash OG for his calendar. This show is the property of SB podcasts LLC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Saul Sea High. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. [01:02:38] You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah, and before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. [01:02:57] This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s Neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. [01:03:15] And second OG stumbled onto a few coherent thoughts in there somewhere. Not the least of which was [01:03:22] OG: when Lacey said it can go either way. [01:03:26] Doug: Okay. That’s probably you guys. That’s not the that’s [01:03:33] OG: And cut. That’s, that’s literally what I wrote down when Lacey said it can go either way. That [01:03:38] Doc G: doesn’t make it good. [01:03:40] Doug. If you wanna go to me, I’ll give you one that’s a little bit better than that. A touch. [01:03:44] OG: Thank God. [01:03:45] Lacey: Are you gonna take that og? [01:03:47] OG: Yes, [01:03:48] Joe: a hundred percent. He’s like off the hook and I’m out. It’s like that Ray Romano joke when he sent his, his wife sent him for uh, pads and he’s like, so I came back with a hammer and the good, the good news was she never sent me again, which is good for everybody. [01:04:05] So OGs doing this on purpose is the point. [01:04:07] Doug: Yep.
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