Welcome to a very special episode! Three experienced dads (teens and above) chat about teaching teenagers or people new to money management suitable lessons to take with them for the future. They discuss their fears, their challenges, and the ways they’ve been able to help their kids succeed with money. Jon Acuff wrote a book on this topic with his daughters, and he shares a wealth of information from them. John Lanza (Art of Allowance podcast) just became an “empty nester” and shares how his kids successfully launched. Joe Saul-Sehy is the father of nearly 30-year-old twins, who are also doing well with their money. They share do’s, don’ts, and much much more.
- Introduction to the Episode
- Meet the Hosts and Their Parenting Fears
- Introducing the Celebrity Guest: John Acuff
- Discussing Parenting and Money with John Acuff
- John Lanza on Parenting and Empty Nesting
- The Challenges and Realities of Parenting Teens
- Repetition and Real-Life Lessons
- Finding Opportunities in Everyday Tasks
- The Value of Hard Work and Money
- Parenting and Teaching Financial Wisdom
- Kids’ Perception of Parental Advice
- Encouraging Self-Awareness in Teens
- The Importance of Role Models
- Navigating Teen Challenges with Support
- The Fast Gauntlet: Quickfire Questions
- Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Jon Acuff
Big thanks to Jon Acuff for joining us today. To learn more about Jon, visit Jon Acuff • NYT Bestselling Author & Keynote Speaker. Grab yourself a copy of the books How Teens Win: The Student’s Guide to Accomplishing Big Goals
John Lanza
Big thanks to John Lanza for joining us today. To learn more about John, visit The Art of Allowance Project. Grab yourself a copy of the books The Art of Allowance: A Short, Practical Guide to Raising Money-Smart, Money-Empowered Kids
Doug’s Trivia
- What are the five characteristics of a good goal?
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Other Mentions
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Written by: Kevin Bailey
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Episode transcript
[00:00:00] You heard of this thing, the eight minute abs? Yeah, sure. Eight minute abs. Yeah. The uh, exercise video Uhhuh. Yeah. Well this is gonna blow that right out of the water. Listen to this seven minute abs. [00:00:18] Live from Joe’s Mom’s basement. It’s a special episode of the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:00:34] On today’s show, three experienced dads share their tips for helping teens and people just starting out in life and with money. To get moving in the right direction. On today’s show, we welcome the man behind a slew of bestselling books, including Soundtracks, quitter, and All It Takes is a goal. John Acup and also the Man Behind the Art of Allowance podcast. [00:00:57] And. The hit book by the same name, John Lanza. So gather around anyone who could use help from some dads who’ve been there, because here they come. Joe, John, and well, John. [00:01:13] Hey everybody. Welcome to a joint episode of the Stacky Benjamins and the Art of the Allowance podcast. I’m here with my special co-host, John Lanza, who’s the chief mammal over at RD Allowance. How are you, John? I am good, Joe. This is really exciting to be, uh, doing this. Double duty here. I know it is so well, because as dads we have a lot of different fears around money, and one fear is that our kids are not, uh, not gonna make it. [00:01:38] And it was my fault. Right. Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve ever had that fear, John, but I’ve certainly had that. Well, I, I think I’ve told you this. It’s my, my daughter called me on it one time. She’s like, are we in experiments? And I said, no, no, no, you’re not an experiment. And then two weeks later, I had to go back up to her and admit to her. [00:01:53] I was like, yeah, well kind of. You kind of are right. Can we all admit that? I know I had twins. So it was always an experiment. It was always something, something new. Well, today we’re gonna do something special. We have three dads here. We’ll introduce the celebrity dad, the other John in just a moment. And we’re all navigating teaching teens about money. [00:02:12] We’ve all actually been through this, so I thought this would be a great chat. Even if you aren’t a dad or you don’t have a teen, I, I think we can widen this discussion. Where’s the good place to start when you’re teaching somebody else about money? I. Or life or work, or if you’re somebody just learning about money life, work in the world in general, how do you overcome the quote? [00:02:31] I’m not a role model. Thinking in your head and what do you do to help your teens through tough situations with money, with work, et cetera, what are some of the constructs your teen or you, frankly can use to get to a better outcome? So that’s kind of the mission. And uh, John, let’s introduce our third guest. [00:02:49] Celebrity guest. He’s a, John joined us early this year with the, he’s a John does not sound. Yeah, no, that’s not the best. In some circles, that would be, yeah. We’ve had a tough go at it. We’ve tried. We’ve done some good things and some bad things with this name. Yeah. He’s not that type of John. Yeah. But he’s a, John joined us early this year with a great 2024 kickoff episode about purpose and Finding Your Way. [00:03:11] Kind of gonna continue that today. You’ve seen him on stages around the country. You’ve read his books. Heard him here before John Acuff joins us. How are you buddy? I’m great. Thanks for having me again. Looking forward to this. Well, gentlemen, I’m so happy you both are here with us and I can’t wait to get this started. [00:03:25] You know, on Stacking Benjamins, we have some sponsors that make sure that this is free so that our stacker family doesn’t have to pay a dime to listen to, uh, what I think is gonna be a pretty epic conversation. We’re gonna have two of them right now before we kick off the show. We’ll be right back. John Acuff and John Lanza joining me. [00:03:45] Let’s get this party started. [00:03:55] Let’s talk about our kids first, who all I’m sure make us proud. John Acuff, why don’t you start first, uh, your daughters, because we’re gonna frame this around the book your daughters actually wrote. Mm-Hmm. This whole discussion. Tell us about your kids. How old are they? Uh, how’s life going for them? Well, one is 18 and one turned 21 3 days ago. [00:04:14] The older one is, uh, rising junior in college, and the younger ones are rising freshmen. So we are at that phase of like empty nests. So that’s a new transitional, uh. Phase for us. And so yeah, their two daughters, Ellie and McCrae, um, very different. One’s extroverted, one’s introverted. Um, so yeah, there, it’s fun to have a discussion around this topic about kids and money and their future. [00:04:38] ’cause I think you’re right. I think every parent’s afraid of that. Every parent. Thinks, are they gonna tell a counselor about this at 34? Like that thing I just said or did, like, are they gonna have to unpack that with a man with a beard and a sound machine someday? And so I, I love that. I think I’m gonna learn a ton in, in this conversation Is the next book, uh, a memoir about how dad did me wrong? [00:04:57] Yeah, it’s a good, well, I have a friend and he said I’m just gonna make a list and hand it to my kids so they can save like eight sessions. You can get 1 1 1 and done one session. Like you can just go right in and go, these are the things, and the counselor can just work through them one by one. So I think there is a lot of pressure on parents that way McCrae and Ali will be together on Oprah someday talking about you. [00:05:16] Completely. Oh yeah. Well, yeah. Or whoever is the current version. Probably on TikTok. Probably somebody I’ve never heard of on TikTok that has 92 million followers and a hovercraft. I don’t, I don’t know where we’re headed, but yeah, they’ll, they’ll be talking to somebody. By the way, this is a different episode, John, but Cheryl and I, our kids are a little older and we’ll get to me last, but um, with. [00:05:37] That first, that empty nest year was the hardest year of Cheryl and my marriage. And, and, and I’m not kidding. It was, you know, we’ve been parents so long and we’d had this house of four for so long and we kind of had to go through the valley of not sure if we’re gonna make it before Now. I, I feel like our marriage, our relationship is stronger than ever. [00:05:57] We’re back to, uh, well, not even back. It’s just, it’s so, so, so good. Mm-Hmm. But we definitely had to kind of redefine everything that year. So it’s tough. Well, I appreciate the heads up. I think there’s a lot of pressure too, where we put pressure on kids is where we go. Your twenties are your best. They’re the best of the best. [00:06:13] And they’re like, no, they’re not like anyone who’s ever lived through the, they’re not the the best years ever. And I think the same is true of empty nest. I think there’s a lot of gaslighting where people go. Oh my gosh. You’re just gonna be making out constantly. There’s just gonna be constant making out, oh my, this is, here we go. [00:06:29] And I think you’re right. I think you do redefine things. You learn new things. It’s a transition. So I feel that excitement, that tension, that here we go in the next adventure. I. John Lanza, tell us about your kids. Well, I I, it’s weird because we’re in the same position as John, right. We have a 21 and a 19-year-old, Quinn and Kellen, and one’s a rising senior and the other one is, uh, a rising sophomore. [00:06:52] But we’re making out all the time now that they’re gone. So I don’t, I dunno what he’s thought about what you guys are talking about. Yeah. My wife and I, of course it John feels bad that he had to put on pants for this podcast. Right. I was gonna say, we’re sorry to break up the Makeout ses, John El one day is just better than the next. [00:07:11] Yeah, sweeter. Just sweeter than everyone. The rose grows stronger. It’s crazy. The empty nest time is a. An odd time because you do have a lot more time on your hands and you do have to figure out things. We, we actually started an empty nest club for friends to get together and, uh, center around having a, a brewer, two or having some wine. [00:07:33] And it’s a good way to kind of get all of us together, all the people, you know, once you stop making out and you can get out and. Go somewhere, then, uh, it, it ends up being a, a good, good chance for people to kind of get together and, and chat and figure out what’s the next stage of life. Yeah. What does the next 30 years look like? [00:07:51] Let’s talk about ’em. Right. Uh, John, are your daughters two? I have two daughters, yes. You have two daughters, so, uh, let’s, let’s go girl. Dads, let’s go. Exactly, exactly. I know. I feel like the odd man out ’cause I have a boy and a girl both 29. Um, my daughter’s seven minutes older, autumn. And what’s interesting about my kids is, is much like the two of you. [00:08:11] My kids are very different. From each other. They’re both very successful, but in very different ways. And I feel like they came out of, uh, teenage years with a lot of money, smarts that I didn’t have, which was, which was pretty cool. There were a lot of things that I wish I would’ve done differently, but there’s also a lot that we did right, that we can talk about. [00:08:28] Today, but let’s dive in. So Johnny Cuff, you begin this book, you write the forward to your daughter’s book, and you say out loud the thing that every parent worries about, which is, how can I be a good parent for teenagers when I am not a role model? Like you were you, you say, I was so bad at high school. [00:08:50] Oh yeah. And wait for it. I was even worse at college. Like, if you wanna know how to make a snow C and I was your man. Yeah. But besides that, there was like, how do you, how do you look at your daughters and go, oh, I’ve got a lot I can teach you during these formative years when I. You don’t feel like you’ve knocked it outta the park yourself? [00:09:06] I think one, it creates empathy. So automatically, I think everybody likes to know they’re not the only one who’s got a challenge. So as a parent where you share a challenge, it makes them go, oh, you too. It makes you human. When you’re a parent, you’re almost not a human. And then when you share like. I blew this situation and I missed a deadline for a scholarship and I didn’t get the scholarship. [00:09:25] Whatever the story is, I think it makes you human. The second thing is, the tension for me with parenting is that there’s a real temptation when you’re in your forties and maybe you’ve had some success and you’ve turned some things around to want to prevent your kids from having those same bruises. [00:09:40] Just the other day, a, a friend of mine said, man, my 16-year-old son, he is just. Not disciplined. He is not consistent. He is making mistakes. And I said, well, how long did it take you until you kind of got it together? And he said, about 32. And I said, well, no offense to your amazing parenting, you might cut off two years of his journey. [00:09:56] You’re not cutting off 16. So I think we have to, as a parent, be open-handed with the advice, walk alongside them, be willing for them. No parent wants to see their kid make life harder than it needs to be. But sometimes people just do and you go, no, I can save you a year on this. The, the, a silly story would be the other day, one of my kids couldn’t find their car keys and we have a drawer that is designated for the car keys. [00:10:21] And I said, if you’ll just put ’em in here. And my wife was in the room and said. It took you 10 years of our marriage to finally start using my drawer. And I said, I know I can save her a decade. Isn’t that amazing? And that was her lovingly calling me out. So I think that’s the tension. But I think if you’ve made mistakes as a teenager, as a college student. [00:10:41] You still have a lot to share, especially if you marry that with current life and current wisdom of, okay, I signed up for a credit card because they had a two pound bag of peanut m and ms at the mall. And I was like, that seems like a pretty good trade. I get credit debt and m and ms. That’s a, like, why wouldn’t I do that? [00:10:58] So I’ve can tell that story and then go, so don’t, don’t do that thing. Be smart about your credit. Let’s talk about it. So I think it’s a, it’s a dance. I signed up for a beach towel. Yeah, it’s funny, I ended up being a representative of American Express for a number of years, but I was like, you guys don’t do any due diligence. [00:11:13] ’cause I’d wrecked your credit card when I was in college. Yeah, yeah. I destroyed it. John Lanza, are you equally as open about your failures with your daughters? Yeah, I mean, I think what John said makes so much sense is just as parents, well one, you feel that imposter syndrome, you know that term is thrown around a lot, but as a parent you could feel that kind of almost every day. [00:11:32] And we do have this wish to kind of prevent the bruising, but really. They have to encounter those bruises on their own. Like we can talk to them about what we’ve gone through. And I like what John’s saying. He is like, the idea is we want to save, we wanna save them a decade, we wanna save them some time. [00:11:50] But ultimately we all learn through our own experiences, but providing some context and giving them some of our, you know, what went wrong, what went right. That helps them so that maybe their experiences can be a little bit more fruitful, let’s say, because I think we’re all fighting that as a parent. [00:12:09] This idea of being are, are, are we really prepared for this? Because who is really prepared to be a parent? And it’s a, it’s a challenge. I. I think that’s great that your weaknesses then Johnny Acuff really become your strengths. Like, Hey, I’ve been through this. I totally mess this up. Let me help you not mess it up. [00:12:27] Oh yeah. And just like you can say, I was a knucklehead here, so what I wish I had done it this other way. I. And I think it’s different depending on the kid. I think certain kids will go, okay, I’ll, I’ll try that immediately the way you said to do it. I think other kids are like, I love you, but I’m gonna try three different ways. [00:12:42] Even if you think the one way is the best way, I’m gonna try these other two. ’cause I want to, I wanna walk my own path there. And that’s the other thing is that. How often have we all taken advice? Immediately and instantly? Like I always joke, if we took advice immediately, there’d only ever be one issue of men’s health. [00:12:59] Like we haven’t invented New Abs. There’s not an additional AB where they’re like, Hey. No, seriously, there’s a new leg you’ve never had before. This epi, like every issue is the sinking, no, it’s seven pack abs, not six pack. We never knew we’ve had the info for a hundred years, but we’re still like, no, there’s a new issue with a different vitamin and you’ve never heard of, and I try to have empathy with, with anybody I talked to about like, Hey, I think you should try it this way. [00:13:26] If they try it a different way, then. That’s just the path they’re on and, and they’re gonna learn at their own speed. So yeah, I just, I think it’s fun to have a lot of empathy, especially with parents. ’cause you can pretend you control things when they’re young. You lose every illusion of that as they get older. [00:13:41] And you know that better than anybody. Like you don’t control if they fall in love and get married to a great person. Like you can impact that and teach to that. But like I didn’t control if they had great friends in high school or if they got asked to the prom. When you have an 8-year-old, a 10-year-old, you can kind of do play dates and think you’re shaping their friends. [00:13:59] But I think the older your kids get, the more open your hands get. I. Otherwise, like I didn’t know I was a control freak until I had teenagers. I just thought I was a fan of certainty and then I was like, oh, okay, I’m gonna really have to open my hands. And I think you go through that as a parent. That’s tough for a control freak. [00:14:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you say certainty, it’s so funny ’cause I forget who said it, but someone said, you know, certainty doesn’t age well and that’s good line. I always think about that when I. Yeah. When I interview folks on my podcast, there’s so much more confidence in the parents of kids who are not teens yet. [00:14:32] Yeah, and I’m thinking to myself, it’s great. You haven’t gone through the gauntlet yet. Right? And it’s like, it’s adorable. It’s adorable. They’re like, this is how it’ll go. It’s adorable. Yeah. Well, and you know, like, but that’s like anybody who has a toddler and then tells a teenage parent, like, I wouldn’t let my kid do that. [00:14:50] And you go, oh man, your kid’s gonna get a face tattoo. I can already see it. Like this is where you’re like, so I think that’s. And I would say I had, I always think like I had more confidence and less intelligence in my twenties, and now in some ways I have less confidence because I’ve seen a lot of things and I know the challenge is, but I have more wisdom. [00:15:12] And so I go, yeah, well, let’s see how that happens. We’re like, if you ask me at 26. For parenting advice, I would’ve been like, oh yeah, I got that and I didn’t have it. But I saw an open mic and I was young and was like, I could totally figure, like you asked me for hang gliding advice. I probably would’ve answered that too. [00:15:29] That’s more of an ego thing than anything, but I think you learn as you go and you hopefully have more patience for yourself, for other parents, well now you know. You know how much you don’t know. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s oceans, it’s, it’s absolutely, and I think the older you get, the more you realize, like a lot of your information is niche based. [00:15:46] Like, I know I can geek out on certain topics because I’ve done 25 years in them, and I know there’s other things that I, and, and you can tell when somebody hasn’t, like, you can read a book and go, oh, this, this person wrote this with their hands, not their heart. Like they don’t have the heart experience for this. [00:16:03] And it sounds right, like it’s technically right, but they haven’t lived it. They don’t know anybody who’s lived it, and it, it just feels two dimensional. Yeah. I remember working in my, in my twenties and I was in this kind of office pool area, and the question came up, do you think you could, you could land a 7 47? [00:16:20] I said, oh, yeah, no, no doubt about it, because I had ridden with my grandfather in his private plane. Right. So I’m like, I could figure it out if I’m sitting there. Those planes fly themselves. I play simulator. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Was it as a button, is it cruise control? Right. It’s fine. And then I think now I’m like, I, these planes probably fly themselves to some extent now, and there’s no way I would, I would say that I could fly one of those planes. [00:16:45] Have you seen the amount right of knobs that are in there? Like, have you ever turned your head left and been like, there’s a lot of buttons, dude, it’s not just, just just one big red button that says, fly me, fly me almost to the airport. Then I’ll take over. It’s, I think it’s jam packed with knobs. Your daughters Begin the book, John, by asking this question. [00:17:02] Is it gonna be on the test? Is it gonna be on the test? And in other words, is this going to be something I need to know later in life? And actually, it’s funny, they, they draw a distinction between those two questions. No, there never is actually a test. So it won’t be on the test. It doesn’t, that part doesn’t matter. [00:17:17] But will it be on the real life test? Yes. How do you guys, you know, this is the thing I always struggle with with my kids when they were teenagers, and I know a bunch of our fans that have kids struggle with this. How do you impress upon your kids that this is one of those life moments that will be on the quote on the test without making it to use a John Lanza work cringey, right? [00:17:37] How do we, how do we make sure that, that when I sit them down and go, no, no, no, this is a big deal. That they take it seriously without getting the eye roll. Let’s have, uh, John Acuff. What do you think? A lot of it for me is repetition. Like I don’t talk about money to my kids one time. I talk about it a lot of times. [00:17:54] I. One of the things we’ve said in our house for years is if you want a kind 16-year-old teach a 6-year-old kindness and give ’em 10 years to practice. So for us, the runway is long in those years where take the topic of money, like we talk about that a lot. ’cause if you don’t, it becomes secretive and you know, some bro, what I’d call a soundtrack to repetitive thought, broken soundtracks develop. [00:18:17] And so we try to go out of our way with certain topics we think are important and are worthy of repetition to say. Hey, you saw that thing that happened. Here’s why that happened. Or Hey, your dad just got paid for doing this and here’s what it’s like to be an entrepreneur. Or, Hey, here’s why. Like our value system, there’s certain things we’ll spend money on. [00:18:38] Certain other things are like, that’s dumb. Like we like to camp like we don’t want dirty, gross hotel, but we’re not like. We are kind of of the ilk that like your eyes are closed, you’re not spending much time there. Go hike a ton, come back to a great hotel. Like I’m not, we’re not staying in flea bags or anything, but we’re also not like staying at resorts. [00:18:57] ’cause our family is more, we wanna be in Sedona hiking 10 mile trails and then go back to the Hampton Inn or they can go back to an Airbnb versus it’s a resort. I think for us it’s repetition that we’re talking about those things again and again and again, and then it almost becomes impossible for them not to recognize the importance versus the pressure of like, Hey, I gotta have a heart to heart and this, I have to, I, I really have to have a moment where like I take a knee and tell them about how love works in this seven minute monologue, and I hope that sticks. [00:19:29] I’m much more of the, I’m repeating a lot of things a lot of times. Uh, to expand on that, when my kids were having a really difficult time about something, I would have to, because being a busy guy, you guys are busy guys. I’d have to put it on my calendar to make sure I circle back in a week to get that repetition. [00:19:46] Oh yeah. Yeah. Because there are a few times where I messed it up and I’m like, I need to go back to autumn, my daughter on this and really follow up. And I didn’t do that soon enough. So for me, tactically using a calendar really helped me make sure that some of those points I circled back and did the Dr. [00:20:01] Phil, you know, how’s that working out for you? Is it, is it working the way that, that you hoped or not? Um, and sometimes, uh, uh, Johnny Cuff, to your point earlier, that was when I knew they were stepping in it. I wouldn’t tell ’em they were just stepping in it. I would wait, let them step in it and then circle back and go, how did that work out for you? [00:20:18] Let them learn the lesson, but be there with the soft, you know, with a bandaid afterwards telling them, you know, I kind of knew ahead of time, but I think it was better that you learned that lesson. Yeah. Go ahead and touch a stove. Uh, John Lanzo, how about you? Yeah, I think being methodical makes a lot of sense. [00:20:32] I, I liked your circle back technique. We talked about that on the show and I. There’s something that feels impersonal about it because it feels like such a business type of transaction. I’m gonna put this on my calendar so I come back to it, but the main point there is you do, you have to come back to it. [00:20:47] And there are things I came back to with my kids. I remember them buying some kind of ridiculous toy and you know, it was like 15 bucks and it seemed like a waste of money. But it also depends on their perspective because she got, you know, a week’s worth of play and yes, there’s a part of it that’s a waste, but that wasn’t her perspective on it in this case. [00:21:07] Right. There have certainly been things like that we, you were talking about with your daughter, where you just was a waste of time, but sometimes that was worth it for them. That little bit of time. But it’s either way, it’s good for them to reflect a little bit at any age to be thinking about it. And you’re setting the stage, like this was pretty early, this was like seven or eight years old. [00:21:27] You’re setting the stage for later conversations. So I like this idea of having those conversations and being methodical about it. Makes a ton of sense. Yeah. I love what you’re saying there, John, about introspection, you know, makes your kids a little more introspective. Like, what is this moment that I just, this thing I kind of did flippantly and maybe it was a, a, a bigger idea than I thought. [00:21:47] But I would say like one, you know. I wrote a book called Soundtracks about mindset, and so we talk soundtracks in our family. One that we say is, there’s money laying everywhere if you’re willing to pick it up. And so we’ll tell that story and we’ll highlight that story by going, Hey, see all these 50 mailboxes that are in front of the high school that the town redid the road. [00:22:07] So they put everybody, they redid everybody’s mailbox. They’re really faded and gross. Now, a high school kid who knocked on those 50 doors could probably sell 20 of those people to repaint their mailbox for 50 bucks and make a thousand dollars. Wow. There’s money everywhere. So like we say that another one that we from, um, our friend Grant Baldwin is bags of gold are heavy. [00:22:25] Like it takes work. And so like when I have an early morning flight and it’s the night before and our kids are like. Man, you gotta get up at 4:00 AM to go to that flight. I’m like, yeah, bags are gold heavy and they’re in Oklahoma tomorrow. Like that’s where they are. So I have to get on a plane and go do that. [00:22:38] And we’re not demonizing work. We’re really deliberate to not demonize work. We’re really deliberate to not demonize money. ’cause there’s a lot of broken soundtracks around that topic. So I think that’s the other thing we do is that we’re saying a couple things. Like we say, one of the things we say is like, money might not make you happy, but it fixes a lot of problems. [00:22:55] Fixes a whole lot of problems. And if somebody has a problem that we know and they know and it’s not gossip, we’ll say, man, that problem would be so much easier if they had the funds, wouldn’t it? Like do you see long term how, how money allows you to do some things you can’t imagine you’ll ever need to do. [00:23:10] Isn’t it good to like, so we’re using soundtracks to reinforce, I hope, when they’re 28. They don’t self-sabotage ’cause they think money is bad and they pull back from an opportunity, I hope they go no money. Money can fix a lot of problems. Like money can do a lot of fun things. So that’s also another way we’re looking specifically at money. [00:23:28] But do your kids overgrown John? And, and and go, oh, here’s dad talking about his book again. Oh, a hundred percent a We did a, we went on TV today. It was funny. We had a. TV interview and the, the lady asked that question like, is it hard growing up with a gold a And my daughter said, people think we’re talking about goals at the dinner table all the time. [00:23:46] And I was like, we only let ’em watch TV in Chinese. ’cause I want them to learn Mandarin. Like, so no, we’re not like, like we do burpees to earn our desserts. So no, like in the pantheon of dudes who are hardcore on the internet, I’m pretty chill in comparison. And the other thing like. My youngest daughter and I ran a half marathon and people said, what was your goal, your time goal? [00:24:06] And I said, are you kidding? I had two goals that at the end she wouldn’t hate me and she wouldn’t hate running. So that’s the other thing. As a parent, you can’t suffocate them with your desire for achievement performance or if they express a desire. Like the temptation is always your kid goes, I like art. [00:24:23] And then every birthday present every Christmas. You’re now an artist. You’re now, we signed up for art classes. Now college swim coaches look for kids that haven’t swum until sophomore year of high school because they’re not burned out. Where if the kids started at six, by the time they hit high school, they’re already over it. [00:24:38] Yeah. And they’re burned out. They’re fried. And so like, I try to not burn my kids out with goals, but one soundtrack I say all the time is everything’s always working out for me. And so like if I get a good parking spot at the farmer’s market and I go, oh my gosh, my kids in the back go, ah, everything’s always working out for me. [00:24:54] So, but what’s funny is they’re gonna. Say that like a knee jerk response when they’re 30 and be like, oh, he got me, he got me. Just like the first time that you repeat your dad saying, uh, you think money grows on trees or, oh, yeah. Yeah. Or, or were you born in a barn? You know when the doors open or, exactly. [00:25:11] Oh, the lights are on. Yeah. Must be nice guys, this is so fun. And I’ve got just a stack more, and I know John Lanza, you’ve got. A bunch more as well that we want to talk to John Acuff about. But at the midway part of every Stacky Benjamin show, we pause for a moment for our trivia question. In the middle of that is our sponsors to make things free so that we can, uh, do the second half of this chat uninterrupted. [00:25:38] So, Doug, what’s on tap this fine day. [00:25:46] Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s Mom’s neighbor Doug, and it may be a special episode, but as you know, there’s probably nothing more special than a good old helping a Doug’s trivia try this on for size with a teenager. It’s great to have goals, but. What are the five characteristics of a good goal? I’ll give you a hint. [00:26:05] The first letter, spell out the word smart. I’ll be back with the answer right after I go. Give the John’s name tag so I can tell ’em apart. [00:26:23] Hey there, stackers. I’m Lanza, an UFF separator, and the guy most likely to have his allowance taken away. Joe’s Mom’s neighbor, Doug. Before the break, I asked you what a smart goal was. The answer, A wisely set goal follows the outline expressed by the five letters that make up the word smart. They’re specific, measurable, actionable, reasonable, and time bound. [00:26:49] Did you get it right? Tell your kid that you may be smarter than a 15-year-old, and if you’re 15, pat yourself on the back because this question came from the National Endowment for Financial Education, and you just nailed it. I’ll include a link to the rest of this quiz on our show notes page. And now back to Joe, John and the other John, let’s talk about a key concept from early in the book, John, because your daughters go into this idea about big moments and listing big moments. [00:27:20] You and I talked about this around New Year’s, and it was a great way to frame 2024 for our Stacking Benjamins listeners. Talk about this idea of listing your big moments when you’re a teen. Yeah. So a big part of that is self-awareness. You’re trying to do an exercise that gives kids a little bit of insight into things they love. [00:27:38] So the best moments list is that chance to say, Hey, what are the things that really light me up if I paid attention? If I was a little deliberate, what am I noticing that I really love? And as a parent, you help the kid do that. As an adult, you do that on your own. It’s, it can be a solo activity, but an example of that would be. [00:27:56] When my youngest daughter comes home from, she’s like an assistant at an art studio, and it’s, it’s eight year olds, nine year olds, 10 year olds doing art lessons. She’s. Bursting with joy, she is lit up. And so we as a parent in that moment will try to be a mirror and go, Hey, do you notice that like when you’re around kids and there’s art involved and you get to teach ’em a little bit, like, man, that’s really, that really lights you up. [00:28:18] We should put a little pin in that. We should write that down on a list of like. Things that light you up so that in a couple years when you’re looking at majors and you go, I think I’m gonna do a business major where I’m in marketing and I’m in a cubicle by myself, we could go, wait a second, remember that thing that lit you up? [00:28:34] Or my older daughter, more introverted. She loves swimming. That’s the best moment for her. And so then we might unpack that and go, what’s true about swimming? Boy, it’s a very introverted activity. You can’t even hear people. You are encased in water. It’s the ultimate introvert’s activity where my other daughter, who is an extrovert, we go, you’re really community based. [00:28:56] Looking at the sports you have access to. I think cross country, they have a good team. They have, you know, a group of girls that run every day together. Like that really fits your personality. So I look at the best moments exercise as a chance to reflect back to your kid some things they might be missing. [00:29:12] It’s that old line. It’s hard to read the label when you’re inside the bottle. And I think as a parent, we’re trying to reflect things back to our kids. John, you really not only love this list, uh, you also love the idea of wins in this book. Are you talking to me or John L? No, I’m sorry. John Lanza. Yeah. Oh yeah. [00:29:31] John L. Let’s go. One of the things I did want to say about this best moments list that I really did like is that. And I think you talk about this in the book too, is the difficult part for our kids. And we think it’s great. We say you have the whole world is open to you. Uh, you can travel anywhere, you can, you can be anything you want, but that is paralyzing. [00:29:51] It’s this kind of paradox of choice and by. Implementing this idea over time, having this moments of LI list, then now we’re going back to this idea of reflecting. They have access to something they can look at to find what it is out of this seemingly endless menu that is gonna actually light them up. [00:30:12] And I love that term that you use, which is lighting, that you want to find the things that really light them up. So it’s a great way for them to kind of figure out where they’re going in life. The other thing I really liked in your book too was this idea, because I don’t know if you’ve, either of you have read Dan Gilbert Stumbling on Happiness. [00:30:31] Mm-Hmm. Um, but it was similar to this, which is you say that what a kid should do is find an adult in their life that is doing something that they really like to do or is living a life or has just a disposition that they like and. You know, interview them, find out more about them. And that’s very much one of the big findings that Dan talks about for, even for adults. [00:30:54] You know, it’s like if you don’t, if you wanna be happy, try to find the people that seem to be doing the things you like to do, or are the kind of person you wanna be. So I, I like that advice that you share in the book as well. Well, and I think what’s fun about that is I tell my kids all the time. The adults love to help kids that ask questions like that. [00:31:14] I was talking to somebody yesterday, there was a 24-year-old that I took to coffee a couple times and gave him some books to read and ’cause he was a killer, like he was in it. He had a job, he was flipping Jordans like he had like just an entrepreneur. He had a full-time consulting position just. [00:31:30] Rockstar and I couldn’t help him enough because he was like, Hey, I’m hungry, I’m hungry, I’m hungry. Where I tell, I joke with my kids, if a 54-year-old asks me that question, I go, yeah, there’s a lot of books like you’re a grown adult. You can figure out a lot of this. We’re like a 14-year-old that goes. I wanna write a book someday. [00:31:48] You’ve written some books. Would you tell me like three things I need to think about? Adults can’t help but like can’t wait to help that kid. So there’s a, yeah, I try to get my kids to understand that’s an asset. Like my friend’s daughter just opened up her own boutique and she’s 20, and the mayor was coming to do a ribbon cutting out and I said, make sure you mention your age. [00:32:07] And she was like, what do you mean? I was like. That’s one of your assets. You’re a young female entrepreneur. That’s amazing. Make sure that if they do a story about you, that’s something you mention because adults love to support a 20-year-old female entrepreneur who’s daring to do a boutique. That’s an asset. [00:32:24] So I think age is also an asset that I, I try to get teenagers to see versus I’m just a teen. Nobody will listen to me. Nobody wants to help me. No, that’s an asset. What if we looked at it as a benefit? I think it helps him fight through the fear too. You know, ’cause I think John Lanza. John, I think you’re right on. [00:32:42] I mean, I remember myself being a teenager and being a dad of teenagers. Like there’s a ton of fear during that time. It’s bewildering. It is, yeah. It’s, but like John Al, you pointed that out. Just even if you’ve done this parenting move, we’ve all done, the amount of colleges you didn’t know exist that are all number one in something that mail your kids. [00:33:02] They’re like, you’ve never heard of us. Did you know we’re number one in redheaded People who attend schools with engineering departments. Maybe that’s for you and you like you get a stack. And so the paradox of choice. I love that you pointed that out, John. Just, I have to ask this, Joe. I have to ask John something because the problem here, I’m thinking like. [00:33:22] Other parents listening are probably thinking what I’m thinking, which is, okay, that’s good advice to give to your kids, right? But how do you do it in a way that they don’t roll their eyes because it’s, it’s not easy for a kid to have that conversation with an adult. Adults seem to be intimidating, so any advice in that area? [00:33:42] Yeah, I mean, I think one is, you’re gonna have to have it a lot. And some of the times you’re gonna get the door shut in your face. Some of the times you’re gonna get the AirPods thrown in, you know, like they’re gonna walk in wearing headphones and go to their room and you’re gonna, and if you knock on the door and go, Hey, how’s it? [00:33:57] They’re gonna be like, I’m good. I’m good. And you’ll go, okay, so maybe we’re not gonna talk about your college major today. So I, I just think one, you’re gonna have to do it a lot. One, you have to be brave. Parenting takes bravery. You’re gonna get your feelings hurt. A lot by somebody you love, by somebody who, a, a week ago wanted the advice like a week ago was asking for the advice and you go, man, let’s have another conversation like that when they go, I’m not that per, I don’t, that person doesn’t exist anymore and I’m actually kind of bothered. [00:34:26] You’re like, why are you asking? So don’t interrogate me. Where a week ago it was, I’m so glad you’re invested in my life, dad. And then a week later it’s, you’re interrogating me. So I think you’re gonna have to ask it a lot. And then I think you’re just like. That’s part of them having other adults in their life too. [00:34:41] That’s another hard thing about parenting is it takes more than you. So I know that my daughter, Ellie, who is in a small group with a woman named Amy Fenton, who like from sixth grade to senior year told Amy things in the context of this group that I haven’t heard. And it was a group of young girls that she became great friends with. [00:34:59] She lives with one in college right now. This is the third year they’ve lived together as roommates. So as a parent, you let go of that. They’re gonna be challenged by a coach. And then it’s the same in marriage. We’ve all had that. We’ve all been married a long time. It kills my wife when I come home and I go, Hey, some dude at this restaurant I overheard was saying I should try this thing. [00:35:17] I think I’m gonna try it. And she goes, I. I’ve been asking you to do that for three years, and I go, no, this guy, a stranger who was eating wings mentioned it. I think I’m gonna do it. And it drives her nuts. The same thing happens in parenting. You’re gonna have a guidance counselor, a teacher, a coach, a boss, go, you’re really good at, with people. [00:35:37] You should maybe think about working with people. And as a parent, you’re gonna be like. We could have saved two years of a major that I told you, I told you you would hate this major. We went through the class list and every class made you gag a little. But you wanted the prestige of this school. You thought, I gotta be a nurse. [00:35:52] ’cause you got it in your head. You’re a nurse and I knew you weren’t a nurse. You know like, and then you get to kind of like bite your lip. What we learned in the first book, ’cause we did one called your new playlist, was that. Parents would say, there’s no world where I’m giving my 15-year-old son a book and being like, Hey, it’s a bonus book. [00:36:09] It’s not even part of school. Just, you know how you love reading for kicks. Like there’s no way I can do that. But what they did, and we didn’t see this coming, this was all parents, they listened to the audiobook because the audiobook is Ellie and McCrae. So it’s a teen talking to a teen and they listen to a chapter on the way to soccer practice and they’d ask a question and they’d go, Hey, what do you think about that? [00:36:29] You think, is there something that you think about is the best moment for you? Like, is there something, and that changed everything when how we thought about the book. Now we’re like, okay, I. If the audiobook is what’s out there, great. Because I’m not, I would never, I’d be Pollyanna and fake if I was like John LI don’t know what you mean. [00:36:46] It’s hard to parent. Like it’s been very easy. Like you saying you make out all the time. Like it’d be call back to an earlier joke. That would be so unkind for me to tell parents. It’s just easy. It takes like an hour. Why? Why are you even making it so hard? Kids are magical. I’m gonna go back, John, to you talking about the fact that there are other adults in their life and I, I do think there’s a lot of stuff I missed up, but there’s a lot of stuff that Cheryl and I, my spouse and I got right, and one thing was helping them find those other adults, knowing they’re not going to learn from you. [00:37:14] I. I’m very lucky that I get to interview and speak with people like the two of you. And I know these people that are really good at money habits and you know, dad starts talking to ’em about money habits. They kind of roll their eyes sometimes. I don’t know about you guys, but my kids certainly did. Yeah. [00:37:27] So instead I introduced them to, uh, some people that I thought they would really like, specifically Aaron Lowry broke millennial. Who is closer, much closer to their age. Mm-Hmm. And Scott Trench, who wrote a great book, he’s now the CEO of BiggerPockets and wrote a book called Set for Life. And I gave them both of their books. [00:37:47] I introduced them to their work. I didn’t, I didn’t impose upon my friends, Aaron Scott, say, talk to my kids. Didn’t do that. Just gave them their books and say, you know what, these are people that are closer to your age. You could learn from. My daughter ended up becoming a huge fan of Aaron Lowry’s and read everything and all this stuff. [00:38:03] To your point, Johnny Acuff, my daughter would come back to me and go, oh my God. It was a, Aaron said this stuff and it’s the same crap, Cheryl, and I’ve been telling her for five years. Yeah. But the fact that Aaron said it was a huge win for all of us. Because Autumn learned it and she didn’t have to deal with the eye roll of dad and Mom. [00:38:21] We’ve got just a few more minutes and uh, John Lance, you do something really cool, uh, in the Art of Allowance podcast, and I thought Johnny’s never been through this, so let’s make him sweat. I sweat through it on your show. I sweat through everything, so that’s not unique. I’m a very sweat, I’m sweating right now. [00:38:36] Before we even started Perfect. Introduce this closing segment, John. Alright. We like to do, uh, we call it our gauntlet on the Art of Allowance podcast, and it’s called The Fast Gauntlet. And Fun Round the Gauntlet. Yeah. And, uh, now are you prepared to run the gauntlet, John? I am prepared. Very prepared. Okay. [00:38:56] Well let’s get started. So what does the term money empowered mean to you, John? Um, money, uh, put to purpose. Very nice. What is the best investment of time or money you’ve ever spent on your kids? Ooh, we paid them a thousand dollars one summer to read 15 classic books and seeing them at the neighborhood pool reading May Antonia or Count of Monte Crito, like during versus TikTok, like that was worth its weight gold. [00:39:32] I’d pay that a thousand dollars again and again and again. Hey, cuff, you didn’t just like that because of the learned lessons your daughter’s got. You love the fact that you got the social. Cool from all the other parents going and hurt my heart and Oh, I’m sorry. Is my daughter reading great expectations at the pool? [00:39:49] Oh, I guess I’m just a great parent. Yeah, that is a great answer, John. Now this is one of those things I always come back like I just wanna rewind and try that idea. That’s such a great idea. Love it. A hundred percent. My wife, I’m just taking credit for it ’cause she’s not on the podcast. Alright. What advice to your kids do you most hope they will actually listen to? [00:40:14] Um, advice to my kids. So I talk to my daughters about the boys they might marry someday. A lot like we’re having those conversations. So I would love them to marry a boy who loves them, who loves God, who loves to work. Who loves this country. So yeah, I talk a lot about, ’cause I think what’s changed me the most in my life is my relationship with my wife. [00:40:40] So I think and talk a lot about the relationship they might have with somebody in the future. You talk about the worst money, like the money situation in divorce is that actually ties in. So I talk about a lot about future spouse without the pressure of they have to find one. But here’s somebody that I, I hope you find that’s like this. [00:40:59] Yeah, well that money compatibility part of it is such a. Core element. Oh yeah. People like to say that opposites attract, but I, I remember talking to Megan McCoy as a financial therapist and she said That doesn’t work on the financial side with, uh, no, no. It like, you get to fight every day over every single thing. [00:41:17] Yeah. Alright. If you could transmit a message that everyone would see John, everyone sky, written billboard, wherever, guaranteed everybody’s gonna see it, what would that message say? Uh, you can turn overthinking into overachieving. I think there’s, I, I’m a overthinker myself and there’s a lot of overthinkers. [00:41:37] I think we’re only increasing as the world gets more complicated and that you can really do fun things. With that, it can be a super power, not a super problem. So I would try to help people figure out how to make their mind a great friend, not a great enemy. Very nice. Well, other than your own materials and great expectations, what’s the one we, we, we, I usually say Money Smarts book, but I’ll just say book, podcast, or media that you kind of go back to, or do you gift the most often? [00:42:08] Yeah. The book I’ve given away the most is, uh, the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. So Good, good. That that changed how I looked at fear as somebody who has a lot of fear naturally. That was groundbreaking for me 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Great choice. Fantastic. Well, congratulations, John. You made it through the gauntlet. [00:42:27] That was easy. I love the gauntlet. I’ve built for the gauntlet. He didn’t even sweat Lanza. He didn’t even sweat. I already had a sweat going, so you didn’t even know I was already in the ocean. I have a feeling he’d do it. No. We’ll come back to John Acuff in just a second. John Lanza, thanks for co-hosting this with me. [00:42:42] What’s going on for our stackers out there in the Stacky Benjamins universe? What’s happening at the Art of the Allowance? You know, we are getting into lots of different things. This is a fun interview to do here, talking about goals and talking about kids. We’re having conversations about media literacy because that’s so, so, so important on the financial literacy side. [00:43:03] So, uh, look for those conversations soon. Awesome. And John aov, great seeing you again, my friend. Uh, your daughter’s new book is How Teens Win, and I’m assuming it’s available everywhere. Everywhere. And audio, as I mentioned, audio is the, we’re seeing a lot of parents use the audio. So yeah, it’s, if you’ve got a teen you wanna motivate, pick up a copy. [00:43:25] Awesome everybody. Well, thanks for having this fantastic conversation. I appreciate both of your mentorship. I think you helped a lot of, uh, dads, moms and people just getting started out there. Thanks a ton. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Joe. Thanks John. Doug, you’ve got it from here, man. Lots of lessons, but what should be on our to-do list today? [00:43:42] So what should we have learned today? First, take some advice from John Acuff. Focus on helping your kids set goals by looking at what already lights them up. This gives you chances for great conversations and some parenting. Second advice from John Lanza. Don’t be afraid to tell your kids about your failures by showing how you mess stuff up. [00:44:04] You can show them first that you’re human and also that you were able to overcome adversity just like they will. But the big lesson. Speaking of goals, want the smartest goal of all? Tell your friends how awesome this episode was and help them become financially savvy. Then when their kids become the next bajillionaire, they’ll take care of you in your old age. [00:44:27] How about that? For a great goal, always thinking, this guy, always thinking. Thanks to John Ako for joining us. You’ll find the new book he wrote with his teenage daughters, Ellie and McCrae, called How Teens Win Wherever Books Are Sold. And thanks to the father of two daughters of his own, John Lanza for joining the Fun. [00:44:50] You’ll find his awesome podcast, art of Allowance wherever you are listening to us right now. Or pick up a copy of his amazing book by the same name. We’ll link to it in the show notes. This show is the property of SB podcasts LLC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe gets some help from a few of our neighborhood friends. [00:45:12] You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. [00:45:31] This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s Neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.
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