Have you ever thought about quitting your job, getting out of the rat race, and instead working on your passion? Maya Chupkov is a force of nature, and did just that. After scoring what was the “job of a lifetime,” she realized that the actual work didn’t meet what she wanted in life. So instead, she quit that job to focus on her lifestyle and needs. Her new boss at a smaller paycheck firm wanted to promote her into more responsibility (and more money) and Maya again said “no.” Instead, she spends her time shining a light on the plight of stutterers, something that has not only been a part of Maya’s life since she’s been born, but also has been a part of the life of one of our SB podcast hosts (Joe). Maya is not only now the host of the acclaimed Proud Stutterer podcast, but also is working a documentary about a man whose life changed because of his stutter, and not for the better. It’s called Rock of Hope, and Maya today details not only what it took to quit a high paying job, but also how she’s gained skills, connections, and funding for this new project. It’s a fascinating walk through the life of a woman who’s pursuing her dream: to help stutterers everywhere come out of hiding and focus on their strengths with the help of the community around them.
In our headline segment, trouble on the “making more money” front. The Wall Street Journal reports that pay raises are shrinking. What do you do if you aren’t going to be scoring as big a raise in the future as you have in the past? We share tips and ponder different avenues you should explore to try to not only tighten the belt, but make more money when others are not. We also spend some time on the back porch talking about Stackers who are Olympians, and feedback about our recent sandwich survey episode. Of course, we sandwich that all around Doug’s amazing trivia question.
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Our Headlines
- After a Pay Boom, Raises Are Shrinking (Wall Street Journal)
Maya Chupkov
Big thanks to Maya Chupkov for joining us today. To learn more about Maya, visit her LinkedIn profile at (6) Maya Chupkov, MPA. Check out her multiple-award-winning podcast, Proud Stutter at Proud Stutter.
Doug’s Trivia
- Which Academy Award-winning film was inspired by King George VI?
Better call Saul…Sehy & OG
- Stacker Dan called in with a question about how far before retirement to start accumulating cash.
Have a question for the show?
Want more than just the show notes? How about our newsletter with STACKS of related, deeper links?
- Check out The 201, our email that comes with every Monday and Wednesday episode, PLUS a list of more than 19 of the top money lessons Joe’s learned over his own life about money. From credit to cash reserves, and insurance to investing, we’ll tackle all of these. Head to StackingBenjamins.com/the201 to sign up (it’s free and we will never give away your email to others).
Other Mentions
Join Us Wednesday
Tune in on Wednesday when you’ll learn everything you need to know about what to do with YOUR stuff (apparently) when you die with certified estate planner, attorney Tim Semero.
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Miss our last show? Listen here: RIP Piggy Bank: You’re Wasting Your Time With THESE Money Concepts (SB1557)
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] Joe: Did you guys see my [00:00:00] Doug: lumen stock? I normally watch your stock every day, Joe. It’s something that really starts my day off, right? But today I missed it. [00:00:09] Joe: I have to admit that, uh, I stopped tracking it this garbage for people that, that are new to Stacky Benjamin Show I had $500 sitting in a brokerage account. [00:00:18] I saw something. Oh, here [00:00:19] OG: comes the flex. [00:00:20] Joe: I saw something online where the CEO just bought a bunch of her own stock and it was, you know, buck 50. So I loaded up $500 worth guys. I know, I know the big money [00:00:32] OG: right here. Well, now it’s big money. What, what’s, what’s in the account right now? Taking us all to, [00:00:37] Joe: well hold up all the Sizzler [00:00:38] OG: after this. [00:00:39] Joe: So then I told people that even people that know what they’re doing do stupid stuff they shouldn’t do. Like, you know, open up a, uh, let’s say Doug not quite as bad as opening up. Let’s say that I opened up a casino app and didn’t, uh, look at the fine print. I would never do something like that, but $500, I [00:00:54] OG: make four grand, bro. [00:00:55] Come at me. [00:00:58] Joe: Well, there, somebody in the basement Facebook group was like, yeah. And I looked at Joe’s Lumen stock for fun and wow, he’s doing great. I’m like, I am. Yeah. And they said the magic words, you know what the two magic words are to make your stock go through the roof. [00:01:14] OG: Elon Musk. [00:01:15] Joe: Well close. [00:01:17] Artificial intelligence. Oh yeah. They’re building fiber optics that help, uh, artificial intelligence go faster. So You’re welcome. You’re welcome. Stackers. I’m sure you took me up on my big stock tip. That was fantastic. [00:01:32] OG: Well, are you doing anything with it? You selling it? You just letting her ride? [00:01:35] Joe: Oh, no. [00:01:35] I’m gonna, I’m gonna pull a neighbor. Doug. I think I’m gonna ride this back all the way into the ground. If, if Gotcha. If possible. [00:01:43] OG: Hey. Yeah. It’s gotta be worth two grand now. That’s pretty good. [00:01:45] Joe: But you know what, the, the whole time I was celebrating, there were people out on the front lines making sure that we were safe so that we could party because the lumen stocks through the roof. [00:01:55] So I got my Sparty mug getting ready for a new season. There’s a new hope. My team’s undefeated, og, my team’s undefeated. And you’ve got, I have [00:02:03] OG: my flapjacks, [00:02:04] Joe: flapjacks in a, a breakfast cake. It’s protein and Doug, you’ve got. Sausage. He’s, he’s good. We got Flapjack sausage and coffee between the three of us. [00:02:16] That’s pretty good. Nice. I’m here to inspire that. Inspire mug of yours. Looks like the uh, NBC. It does. The more you know, the more you know. Doesn’t it? Yes. On behalf of the men and women, make a podcast to Mom’s Basement, the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union, supporting our troops. Here’s to our troops. [00:02:33] Thank you so much for all the work you do. Let’s go stack some s together. [00:02:37] Doug: I, uh, I don’t like my job and, uh, I don’t think I’m gonna go anymore. So you’re gonna quit? Nuh, I’m [00:02:45] bit: just gonna stop going. [00:02:47] Doug: So are you gonna get another job? [00:02:48] bit: I don’t think I’d like another job. [00:02:57] Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:03:11] I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor Doug, and today you’ll learn how to budget for the activities that fulfill your heart, but don’t make you any money With documentarian Maya Choko in our headlines, prepare for your next raise to be smaller. We’ll explain why in our headline. Plus we’ll answer a question from one stacker who thought, you know what? [00:03:32] I’d better call Saul, see hi and og, and then I’ll share some. E ecu missionary trivia. And now two guys who never mince words When it comes to personal finance, it’s Joe and oh, ju ju g. [00:03:53] Joe: Hey everybody. So happier you’re here. Welcome to the Doug Musta purchased a dictionary podcast. Elocution. Yeah, you say it, you try saying that on the spot. [00:04:05] Doug: Elocution. I def i I defy you to def define that word you were gonna say. I defile you. I know you were, I defy You caught yourself. Well, we got a show to do first. [00:04:18] Joe: If we got a i I get a little excited when you use the word elocution. We got a fantastic show everybody. Welcome to Stacking Benjamins. I am Joe Saul. Sea High and relax. Sit back and get ready to, uh, get your money nerdy on ’cause we’ve got some. Good stuff for you today, man. I’m looking at this. This is like a greatest hits episode all in an hour. [00:04:40] Maya Chuko here today, OG Sweet. She is, uh, has made a documentary, and you know these people that make documentaries that make you no money. So what’s it doing on a money show? Well, as you know, og, sometimes it’s about a little more than money. You know, like let’s say you decide to put a pool in your backyard that will make you, I’m sure that that made you a ton of money. [00:05:01] OG: The pool in my backyard has not made me a ton of money. [00:05:03] Joe: No, no. [00:05:04] OG: I’ve not turned it into a revenue stream as of yet. [00:05:06] Joe: So I’m gonna ask Maya why she didn’t just put a pool in her backyard instead of making a, a documentary. But there are these things that you wanna do that fill your soul. And, uh, we’re gonna talk to Maya about that. [00:05:20] She’s the host of the Proud Stutterer podcast. She, um, advocates for people that have the condition that a lot of people don’t know that I have, uh, stutters all over the place. But before that, we’ve got a wild headline. Gee, you and I need this. Before Doug asked for his next raise. That’s gonna be an important one. [00:05:38] It’s getting [00:05:38] OG: a [00:05:38] Joe: 200% [00:05:39] OG: raise. [00:05:39] Joe: You know what? Let’s give him a 400% raise. Four bajillion percent Doug. Congratulations. What is this? We decided to change your ti, your raise this year. We’re changing your title to the King of Podcast announcer, guys. [00:05:53] Doug: Is that how you quantify? A bajillion is by a title change? [00:05:56] Yes. Yes. I like the bajillion more than the title. I’ll take it. I don’t, I don’t care. I’ll take it. We’re gonna pay [00:06:03] Joe: you in publicity, Doug. We’re gonna make it so all the listeners can hear. Both the listeners can hear all, all the words that come out of your mouth. But before all that, we have sponsors that make this podcast hung to keep it free so you don’t have to pay for it. [00:06:17] And uh, here’s a couple now we’ll be right back. Maya Chuko joining us to talk about her new documentary Rock of Hope. And the making of a documentary when you know it’s not gonna be a big money making project. But before that, let’s do our headline. [00:06:33] headlines: Hello darlings. And now it’s time for your favorite part of the show, our Stacking Benjamins headlines. [00:06:39] Joe: Today’s headline comes to us from the Wall Street Journal. This is written by Vanessa Furmans and San Bangalore. This is a disconcerting og prepare for your next raise to be smaller than you’d hoped. It’s, uh, if we’ve been warning people the last couple years that you really needed to make sure that you got a raise, inflation being very high, you needed the raise to keep up with it. [00:07:03] And now og um, looks like that window may be closing for a lot of people, not great. [00:07:10] OG: Well, and the problem there is of course, is that inflation is very. Local, and it’s very specific it seems anyway, relative to both where you are economically, how it’s impacting you, and geographically. Obviously there’s different areas of the country where it’s, you know, a little bit higher or lower than other places, and it’s focused on generally just a few key areas. [00:07:32] Healthcare, food, and transportation, and to some extent, insurance, which I guess you could put in the transportation cost. Those are the like the largest expenses that people have. But when the government looks at it, the government looks at it and says, oh, inflation’s like 3%. That’s good. It’s like, well, yeah, you’re counting this thing that I don’t use very often, and part of that formula. [00:07:52] Meanwhile, eggs are going up, you know, a dollar every week, every time I go to the grocery store. [00:07:57] Joe: No, it’s magic. It’s barely gone up at all these two, right? The era of hefty pay increases over companies are already making plans to trim raises again next year. The shrinking raises at the latest side alongside a couple weeks ago is lackluster jobs. [00:08:10] Report workers have lost much of the leverage they’ve had with bosses in the past few years with hiring now slowing sharply. Employers are controlling payroll costs by cutting or freezing bonuses, doling out fewer and smaller merit increases business leaders and compensation consultants say. So if we assume, OG, that the raise may be smaller this year, what do we do then on the other side of the balance sheet to maybe control the fact that there might not be as much money coming in the front door? [00:08:38] OG: Well, I think that some of this goes to your ability to communicate the value that you provide. You know, just because the economy’s a little weaker, or just because unemployment’s a little bit higher, which means you know that what the author is saying here is that there’s a little, a little less leverage, right? [00:08:55] You gotta, you don’t have to pay me as much because you go replace me. ’cause people are looking for jobs a little bit more than maybe they were. Two years ago. A lot of this comes down to, you know, your self-promotion and your self marketing. If you haven’t taken a tally of the last year’s worth of projects that you’ve worked on or the last year’s worth of outcomes that you’ve provided for your, for your company, it’s a great time to do that because then when those, that season comes up, we do our stuff in the middle of the summer, and I, but I know a lot of companies have third quarter, fourth quarter. [00:09:28] You know, that’s kind of the seasonality of, of bonuses and raises and that sort of thing, promotions. But you don’t want to go into that meeting without having your own ammunition, right? If you show up with like, Hey, I’m here for my performance review and I haven’t done any personal prep, then whatever, whatever the boss says, now you’re arguing. [00:09:48] Versus showing up with like, here’s all the money I saved, or here’s all the, you know, the sales we’ve made because of our team, or here’s the projects that we accomplished, and you know what I mean? Like, if you can make a case for yourself and the summertime’s a great time to do that. A lot of places are a little slower in the summertime, you know, before it picks up again as everybody gets back to school. [00:10:06] So. Go back through your calendar and look at the engagements that you’ve had or look at the clients that you’ve won or, you know, that sort of thing, and kind of start building your, your own pitch book, I guess. [00:10:16] Joe: Well, and I love to that point, og I loved when Len Penso was here last week for people that missed him. [00:10:21] You wanna go back and listen to his wonderful sandwich survey episode from last week looking at the price of inflation, what we’re talking about here, but through the eyes of back to school, back to work sandwiches. But he said what he would always do was he would keep a tally whenever he was involved in a project. [00:10:37] He, he had this little notebook on his desk and he would just jot a little thing, I’m working on this, I’m working on this, I’m working on this. So he didn’t have to remember. ’cause how hard is it to remember what you did in February and March when you’re trying to put all that together in November? I love that idea. [00:10:52] OG: Yeah. There’s no way to accurately portray your entire year’s worth of work when you’ve got, you know, 24 hours to think about it. If you, to len’s point, if you haven’t put this down over the course of a year, now’s the time to start kind of thinking about it because. You have time to kind of build your, build your case, if that makes sense. [00:11:10] Joe: Ellen Teeter, 23 years old, was told when she joined her company, she received a 10% signing bonus. By the way, was told that raises would range from none at all to 10% her raise. I. One point half percent. [00:11:22] bit: None at all. Oh, [00:11:24] Joe: what’d you say? [00:11:25] Doug: I said none at all. None at all. That’s what I was gonna say. [00:11:28] Joe: Sorry, what were the with the under on that one? [00:11:30] She says quote, and this, this might be the understatement of the year. Speaking of under, I was underwhelmed said the bank operations analyst in Charlotte, North Carolina, she’s in banking and did that bad. The median raise last year was 4.5%. And to your point, og, this is gonna be regional. This is also going to be industry by industry. [00:11:51] Much more specific than that. So maybe join Glassdoor or another place where you can look at what people in your business are actually getting for raises. But nationwide, 4.5% was the median 4.1. They expect to be the median this year and 2025, they expect that to go down to 3.9. That’s all according to employer advisory firm, WTW. [00:12:13] But let’s talk about that other side of the belt. Let’s say that no matter what, you know, you work for a company and it’s just tight, OG. That means that maybe the income side of the balance sheet, sure we can start a side hustle. We can do some of the make more money things we’ve talked about over the years on the show, but let’s talk about what the easiest wins are on the expense side of the ledger. [00:12:34] Where can we find money to make up for the fact that we aren’t bringing as much, you know, competitively through the door? [00:12:42] OG: Well, setting aside the go earn more money argument, which we, you know, we’ve talked about, uh, those things. But also going to find other work in your industry is usually the largest increases that you get. [00:12:54] I think everybody recognized, I was having this conversation with a friend of mine a couple of, uh, weeks ago. He was looking at, uh, his company and the money that he was making and stuff like that, and I said, look, the only way that you’re gonna get an outsized return is to actually leave. You can come back. [00:13:10] You know, like if you’re good, they’ll want you back, but you go somewhere and then you reset that. Now a lot of people don’t wanna do that. I get it. It’s a giant pain in the butt and. If your company finds out that you’re looking, that’s bad juju, all that sort of stuff, but not doing any of those things. [00:13:25] The thing that I would start with in your personal life is looking at where you’re spending all of your money. A lot of times, CDs, David Bach, for example, the latte factor, which drives me crazy. It’s not about the latte, it’s about the fact that you’re paying a higher than you should mortgage rate or something like that. [00:13:44] Look at where the big checks that you write every single month are going and see where you can move those needles. Yeah, sure. If you go out for coffee every day, maybe if you change that to every other day, you can have an impact. But if you look at your expense list and sort it by highest expense to lowest, that gives you a good idea of where your biggest bang for your buck could be [00:14:07] Doug: about. [00:14:08] Six months ago you said something. I I wrote it down. ’cause it, you finally said something that I liked and I agreed with og. It was so [00:14:14] bit: good. [00:14:15] Doug: I think at the time we were talking about strategic planning and the, the value of the exercise. A lot of times as a team, whether it’s us here in the basement or you’re in a big corporate environment, the value of that isn’t as much about. [00:14:30] The document you come up with at the end, but all of the discussions that lead into that. So I’m gonna [00:14:35] bit: yeah, [00:14:35] Doug: quickly pivot to the latte factor because no, you’re probably not gonna make huge meaningful impacts to your lifestyle and your budget by figuring out if you’re should buy store brand sugar instead of, you know, the national brand. [00:14:48] Is there one, I don’t know. But the exercise of looking through all of those expenses and you eventually get down to the lattes and the, you know, store brand versus national brand cereal, better example, there is a difference. [00:15:01] OG: Mm-Hmm. There is. That’s [00:15:02] Doug: where I think you find a lot of that stuff. And yeah, hopefully you’re gonna find some really big wins in the larger items in your monthly, you know, cars, homes, uh, vacations, et cetera. [00:15:12] But I do think there’s a value in looking at some of those smaller, granular expenses. [00:15:17] Joe: I found when Cheryl and I did that it, it was actually fun. It didn’t make a huge impact immediately. Doug, to your point. But when we go through our Monarch Money app and we’re looking at the different expenses that we have, like it just makes you more mindful about what you’re spending. [00:15:32] Doug: Yeah. I believed everything you said except for it was actually fun. It was fun. [00:15:37] Joe: Well, you know, I’ve talked before about how we do this nerd. We do it over over wine or pancakes. And it’s 20 minutes long. It’s a good time. [00:15:46] Doug: There would have to be acid in that wine for me to make that fun for me. Wow. All these expenses are in 3D. [00:15:56] Woo. Do you see lizards crawling across our balance sheet? [00:15:59] Joe: I think that one that always pops out on ours. OG restaurant spending. Right When I get a little lazy. I see. And the expense side ledger starts creeping up in a month. It’s because of the fact that. Yeah, we just, we, we didn’t take the time to do the grocery shopping. [00:16:14] And it’s funny because if I meal prep and I grocery shop, I actually eat that food that’s in my refrigerator. It’s when I don’t do that, those first two steps that I’m like, oh, you know what? I don’t wanna stop by the grocery store. Let’s go to a restaurant. [00:16:26] OG: You know what I just found in our refrigerator from, from May? [00:16:29] Oh boy. That I’m very bummed about takeout. Oh no, no, no, no. So my wife loves crab cakes, so we have a great crab cake recipe. Costco has fantastic fresh crab. You guys don’t like crab cakes? [00:16:42] Doug: No, I don’t like crab cake from March. Well, yeah, the crab sitting in the, that’s the part that I’m already reeling back [00:16:48] OG: on. [00:16:48] Yeah. So hold on, lemme get there. So her birthday’s in May, and when I was shopping for her birthday, Costco’s got fresh lump crab, and it’s a pound and it’s just, and they had two of ’em. And I was like, all right. When did they ex expire? In like in June. This is May, may, June. So two months. I can make crab cakes twice in two months. [00:17:05] That’s not excessive. Well. It’s August and that can of crab, lump crab is still sitting in the fridge. It was in the back corner. That stuff ticks me off because that stuff’s super expensive. You know, that’s like the one time a year where you buy that fancy stuff to make a nice meal or something. And then I was like, I’ll just get two. [00:17:23] ’cause it’d be really good. Yeah. And then it would’ve been cheaper just to go freaking out to dinner because I spent the money and it was trying to be smart and have two meals out of it and, and screwed it up. So, you know, take inventory of your, uh, of your fridge before you go garage grocery shopping. [00:17:37] Did you not [00:17:38] Doug: notice when the paint started peeling in your kitchen from the, it’s not [00:17:41] OG: open dude. It’s in a [00:17:43] Doug: container. What would that have been? Horrible. [00:17:45] OG: It’s not a crab sitting in the fridge staring at you when you open it up. Are, [00:17:49] Doug: are cats lined up outside your house? He, he can’t figure [00:17:53] Joe: out why every feral cat in the neighborhood wants into, oh geez. [00:17:57] Kitchen. [00:17:58] OG: Geez. It’s in a container. I [00:18:01] Joe: didn’t know though, because those are sealed. There’s an expiration date then, huh? [00:18:05] OG: Yeah, it was a month and a half ago. There’s some chance I’ll open it just to double check and make sure I’m pretty good about going. Yeah, no, but this was expensive enough that I might, I might have a whiff just to see how brains that it is. [00:18:18] Joe: I hope everybody can join us for next Monday’s episode. How to pay for emergency room visits outta your pocket. [00:18:24] Doug: HSA. It’ll just be Joe and I. [00:18:27] Joe: That’s [00:18:27] Doug: right. [00:18:27] Joe: Yeah. The value of HSA spending. So we’ll see. Well, OG there’s one more facet to this piece, which is that, uh, new hires of course now are going to be taking the brunt of this, right? [00:18:38] So if you’re somebody OG looking for a job now, make sure you grab either our 2 0 1 newsletter, where Kevin’s gonna go through, dive in, how to apply for jobs and get the job that you want. Go back and listen to Tessa West, who was on just a couple weeks ago, talking about getting the job that you really want. [00:18:55] Like if you’re sending out 600 resumes. You’re doing it wrong. You are doing it wrong if you’re carpet bombing for a new job. But I think that learning about the new job is, is, uh, learning about how to be more strategic, getting your new job. I think it’s gonna be super important. I’ll link to this piece in our show notes at stacky Benjamins dot com. [00:19:16] Coming up next, Maya Chuko is, uh, someone I met when she invited me onto the Proud Stutterer podcast. I found out that she was working on this awesome, awesome documentary project, and it always amazes me when someone is working on a project and dedicating hours and hours to something that has very little chance of a monetary payoff. [00:19:40] And yet you see if anybody’s ever read the book flow, oh gee, have you read Flow? [00:19:46] OG: By mha, I was gonna let you pronounce his name. Yeah, yeah. [00:19:53] Joe: mha, uh, yeah, the University Chicago Guy Doug. Have you read it? [00:19:59] OG: No, I have not. Oh, Doug’s a really good English reader. Maybe he should try to say this guy’s name. I [00:20:04] Joe: think it’s B English [00:20:04] OG: reader. [00:20:06] Doug: I thought you were trying to say Mikayla Schiffrin. So no. Close. No, but, but not quite. She could write a book about flow. Yeah. [00:20:15] Joe: A different person. But the philosophy of flow is when you, when you are so into something that the hours just seemed to pass and it’s this optimal use of time. And for Maya, as you’re going to hear putting this documentary together, is that, but how do you finance that project? [00:20:29] How do you get that done? How do you work on things that aren’t going to quote pay in dollars? We got that coming up next, but uh, before we get there, Doug, you’ve got some, I, I don’t even remember the word. It was such a big, what was the big word you used? Electrician. [00:20:45] Doug: Wasn’t that it? I think it was elocution if you say so. [00:20:49] Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug inspired by today’s guest stuttering advocate, Maya Chuko. Wait, I’m, I’m not saying she’s an advocate who stutters. I mean, she’s an advocate for people who stutter, but she. Also stutters, so technically she is a stuttering advocate. Anyway, before I get myself into trouble, her work got me thinking about someone else who was famous for his stutter. [00:21:18] King George, I six, known as Prince Albert before he was crowned. Oh, that’s where that name comes from. So I guess he’s known for two things. Aside from lending his first royal title to a provocative body piercing that I may or may not have. King George is most well known for his legendary accomplishments during his reign throughout World War ii. [00:21:41] Most notably, he helped unify the country by continuing to live at Buckingham Palace during the war. Sounds like something I would’ve done. Actually, man. I once stayed here in the basement for an entire week while the Jehovah’s Witnesses were canvassing our street. Oh boy. Thank God for Uber Eats. I don’t know how I would’ve survived if I had to go to the grocery store myself, have to talk to somebody. [00:22:03] I mean, you’re just putting yourself in danger. Those Jehovah’s Witnesses are roaming the neighborhood. You can’t do that. Today’s trivia question is, which Academy Award-winning film was inspired by King George the sixth. I’ll be back right after I figure out how to apply for Knighthood and look up Prince Albert Piercings. [00:22:22] Sure. I mean, I know what it is, but it’s always good to verify with pictures. [00:22:34] Hey there, stackers. I’m Piercing Survivalist, and Future Knight Joe’s Mom’s Neighbor, Doug. During the break, not only did I look up Prince Albert Piercings, I recommend, by the way, not looking that up, at least not on a work computer. I also measured myself. For an eventual suit of armor. When I’m knighted, I added a little room for a sweater. [00:22:55] It’s gotta be cold inside those things. And don’t worry, I used imperial measurements since I’m submitting them to the empire. It’s a little gestures like that that make a big difference when you’re applying for a job or a royal title. Today’s trivia question is, which Academy Award-winning film was inspired by King George I sixth the answer. [00:23:15] Taking home a whopping 70 awards across various ceremonies. The King’s speech depicted King George’s inspiring radio speech that informed the world of England’s decision to enter World War ii. And now here to teach you how to fund your passions without going broke. It’s today’s mentor, Maya Chuka, [00:23:38] Joe: and I’m super happy she’s joining me at the card table. [00:23:41] Maya Chka is here. How are you? [00:23:43] Maya: I’m doing well. I’m so excited to be here. [00:23:46] Joe: I’m super happy you’re here. In fact, our whole team is super happy to talk about this because we talk about so many things. Before we get to you and what a badass you are and how cool this project is that you’re working on, there’s an elephant in the room that we have to talk about. [00:24:01] Last week the Olympics ended. You are very close to, uh, one of our Olympians and not just any Olympian. One that I think a lot of our stackers will know. [00:24:10] Maya: Yes. Jade Carey, who’s on the USA Women’s gymnastics team. Never heard of her. She is, [00:24:16] Joe: no, I’m kidding. [00:24:18] Maya: She’s my, my, my cousin. So my cousin just married Jade’s father, so we have officially have an Olympian in the family, which has been really exciting. [00:24:30] Joe: That’s so co. Have the two of you met? [00:24:32] Maya: Yes, her, her cousin, and. Um, now her dad’s in our family. They got married at my mom’s house, so. Oh, cool. Yeah, we’re all very close. [00:24:43] Joe: Yeah. So you might’ve been watching with a little, uh, little extra home push, I would think. [00:24:48] Maya: Yes. I was very nervous the whole time, but she, she knocked it outta the park and I’m so proud of her. [00:24:55] Joe: It was so amazing. That’s cool. Alright, I just wanted to start there. We’re not gonna talk about Jade, we’re talking about you, Maya. I wanna talk about, this was really three things. One, I think there’s a lot of us that just wanna see the behind the scenes of how you make a picture, whether it’s a documentary or just any picture. [00:25:14] Like what really goes on. Like what’s the good, the bad, the ugly, what’s the sexy stuff? And also the stuff that other people don’t see. And then second, we tell our stackers all the time that life is about more than money. And yet we tend to focus on money. ’cause we’re, because we’re, we’re a money show. I know that, uh, we’ve spoken to a few documentarians. [00:25:35] And I know that it’s, it’s a struggle, but it’s worth it in so, so many ways. Spending hours without a profit motive, you know, I’d love to talk about that and about the goals for this film. And then third, I’d like to talk about budgeting for this. Let’s talk about the, the money a little bit, if that’s okay. [00:25:54] But I think we have to start out, Maya with stuttering. How has stuttering affected your life? [00:26:01] Maya: Wow. So yes, stuttering has probably affected every part of my life from the grade school times, which was a little more traumatic to now like finding my life’s purpose. So I would say it, it’s impacted every part of my life, but mostly when I think about my life now, I feel like it’s given me so much and it makes all the. [00:26:32] Negative things I experienced as a kid, so worth it because now I’m able to really know who I am through coming to terms with my stutter and helping others have kind of that same experience. [00:26:51] Joe: When I was in elementary school, they called me the jackhammer and it was merciless. And then obviously you get a little older and kids go, you know, and well-meaning adults go just spit it out. [00:27:03] Just spit it out. And it was funny. And you know this ’cause you, you know, a lot of the science behind it, clearly way more than I do that. Um, I could say without a stutter. If I could spit it out, I would, but then I would go back to stuttering over the same thing that that was happening. What was it like, you mentioned elementary school, was it similar for you then? [00:27:25] Maya: Yeah, I don’t have a ton of memories from elementary school. I feel like it was really painful for me. So I feel like so much of those memories are just kind of like they’re there somewhere, but I feel like they’re really, I like push them down. But the kinds of things I do remember, just navigating middle school and high school is one of the things I’d always wanted to do was audition for the school play. [00:27:51] Like I always wanted to act. I always wanted to like be on stage and perform, and I just never did. And sometimes I feel like I wish I did because it would’ve given me a lot. But you know, that’s just one of the things with, with, with stuttering when you’re young, like something that comes up a lot on my podcast, proud Stutter is avoiding situations where you might. [00:28:23] Get found out. As a person who stutters, I would try my best to hide that part of myself. [00:28:31] Joe: How do you go from hiding to becoming such a huge advocate? Like where did the podcast come from? [00:28:39] Maya: It happened during the pandemic as a lot of things probably sprouted from that, but, but yeah, for me it was just being really unhappy. [00:28:50] I think a story that would resonate with your audience is during the pandemic, I had gotten a job where I was making the most money I’ve ever made and I thought I made it. I was like, this is the job, like I’m gonna, life is good. Right? And then I started to, to realize like, this is not the job I thought it was. [00:29:14] And I was really unhappy and it just made me look at. Money differently because I had always strived to like get a high salary to feel valued. But then that experience just made me realize like, it’s not worth it. And now how I think about a salary is like the higher your salary, the more they can kind of expect from you. [00:29:44] And so now I really approach my work is that my salary doesn’t dictate my worth. Like I’m in control now. I have a decent salary, but like I’m not attaching it to my worth. I’m attaching my worth into, worth into the things that drive me and my passion, which is making films. That’s [00:30:10] Joe: so interesting. We spoke with Scott Galloway recently on the show and I’ll link to it in the show notes. [00:30:16] And he said this idea of having a work that fulfills you is kind of kind of bs. Like you can pay the bills and make sure that it leaves you time to fulfill you in other ways. Did you change jobs then? So when you got the high paying job, did you then end up quitting that job and taking a different lower paying job? [00:30:33] Or did you just kind of mitigate it into a job like with your boss that you liked better? [00:30:39] Maya: So yeah, I changed jobs, took a huge pay cut and I’m talking huge and the reason I took a huge pay cut is ’cause the job that I really wanted. I just felt like it was such a good culture fit and I followed my gut and it, now I’m at a job where I’m like the happiest I’ve ever been and I, I did manage to get. [00:31:08] A pretty decent salary boost recently. And so now I’m at a more stable point and I think it was just me following my gut and really trying to make it work and my happiness allowed me to adapt . And honestly, ever since I started the podcast, doors have just been opening up because I just feel like there’s this curtain that’s been pulled and there’s this openness and the more open I am, the more opportunities there are. [00:31:46] Joe: Isn’t that wild? ’cause it’s the opposite, I think of what most people think. [00:31:50] Maya: Yeah. My philosophy now, whenever I talk to anyone that’s really struggling with their job or like trying to navigate these transitions, I just tell them the story that I just. Told you because like, I wish someone would’ve told me that earlier. [00:32:09] ’cause it’s always been instilled with me that I have to like work hard and like step up and there’s this path. And so now I’m like some, something my boss just asked me, he was like, oh, if you, if we were to get more money for your program, would you want to manage other people and get like more money? [00:32:36] And I’m just like, no, I don’t wanna manage anyone. Like I’m okay with where I’m at. Like I know what makes me happy and what what doesn’t. And managing someone is just not something I wanna do in like that job. Stuttering’s a whole different thing. But yeah, I’m starting to really be more in control of, of what I want professionally, which is really powerful. [00:33:03] What’d your boss say when you said that? He was like, oh, okay. Like he was just like, what? I’m like, yeah, just he, he probably doesn’t hear [00:33:10] Joe: that much. [00:33:12] Maya: No, I, I don’t think so. He was definitely shocked, but now he knows. He’s like, okay. Like that’s just a boundary Maya has, and I felt really good in that and not every boss would react that way, but I felt that I could be honest with him about that. [00:33:31] And so now we just have this understanding. [00:33:34] Joe: Our stackers are wondering, just a couple things, Maya. And the first one is maybe impolite, but how old are you? Because there’s a bunch of people wondering like, what stage of your career you’re in? I am 31. And then the second question is, uh, that I know people are wondering is you took this big pay cut, did you have to then downsize at all? [00:33:53] Or when you got the big pay bump, had you not really increased your lifestyle? Because we see people, I. That we interview on the show that struggle with that all the time, like there might’ve been a lifestyle change. [00:34:03] Maya: Yeah, so my lifestyle did not change. I was at this job for a little over a year, but I’ve always been raised to like have a savings account. [00:34:14] My dad really instilled that in me, and so I really just kept up my normal lifestyle. Like every once in a while I would just have an impulsive buy that really like made my endorphins increase, which was fun. Gives you that big dopamine [00:34:32] Joe: hit. Yeah. [00:34:33] Maya: Yeah. But other than that, I really just stayed at that level and I was able to save a lot of money. [00:34:42] So that was cool. [00:34:43] Joe: Well, that’s fantastic because I feel like for a lot of people, as they make more money, they think, well, this is who I am. And I love the fact that you’ve divorced yourself from that. Like who I am at work and the money I bring in is not who I am. The podcast obviously is done very well and I love the accolades that you’re getting for the podcast. [00:35:03] How did that then end up becoming this documentary project? [00:35:08] Maya: Yeah. So I’ve wanted to make documentaries since I was pretty young. I actually interned at the International Documentary Association. Oh wow. [00:35:18] Um, when I was in high school, but I never thought it was possible for me. I just didn’t, I never thought I was creative enough or talented enough. I. I think there was a lot of lack of confidence because of my stutter. I’m not saying I couldn’t make films ’cause of my stutter, but there’s like an a connection between my confidence and stuttering and thinking I could make documentaries. [00:35:47] And so the podcast really started giving me the confidence to have a voice and I was able to tap more into that creativity and really find that creativity that’s always been in me. The podcast like started as just a passion for project, but now we kind of have a decent amount of like monthly, monthly the donors that kind of helps cover our operational costs. [00:36:13] It’s not a lot, but it’s, it’s helpful and I had wanted to see if I could get grants to do Proud Stutter and make it into a nonprofit, so I. I recently partnered with the Independent Arts and Media to be my fiscal sponsor so I could use them to apply for, um, tax deductible grants. And once I had that, I started just exploring grant opportunities and I found that there’s, California Humanities is a grant maker and they had a track for like audio documentaries. [00:36:50] And so I was like, how cool would it be to do an audio documentary around stuttering? So I sent them a grant application that I’d worked really hard on and they ended up. GI giving me $35,000 to make Wow. An audio documentary. Yeah. Um, but then can we, [00:37:11] Joe: before we go fir hold on. Before we go further, ’cause I’ve got so many questions along the way because that first step is, you know, Maya, during your interviews I hear this, everybody’s afraid to make that first step. [00:37:21] When, when you reached out to that organization to ask them for help, how hard was that and how did that discussion go to get them on your team so that you’d be able to then get these grants? [00:37:37] Maya: Yeah, so that process was actually pretty smooth because, um, they, like, what you had to do was just fill out a form and then they meet with you. [00:37:49] And then you talk about like your Prolo Graham and why it fits their criteria of what they’re looking for. And so. I already knew they had a lot of podcasts, part of their network. So, um, I was pretty confident that it would work out. So that part was pretty easy because, you know, as long as you’re like an art program or something, like they accept a lot of people in their network. [00:38:18] Joe: Well, I, I think a key there, not to put words in your mouth. Yeah. But just listening to you, it feels like, like it does for me. Just doing your homework and being prepared really calms down the fear. [00:38:30] Maya: Right, right. Yeah. Like I had known going in that this was a good fit and I’d done my research and Yeah. I thought a lot about the, the different options because yeah, there’s a, there’s so many ways to, to be a nonprofit and I just thought. [00:38:50] Having a, a fiscal sponsor would allow me to just hit the ground running without worrying about like all the admin and paperwork type of thing. Yeah. Right. [00:39:00] Joe: Well, and then that’s the second question is, so you get this monster beau, just a beautiful grant. You said you spent a lot of time on it. How do you define a lot of time, like if somebody’s looking for this type of a grant, how much, how much time did you have to spend? [00:39:14] Maya: Well, balancing a full-time job and a podcast, I spent two months on that. [00:39:20] bit: Yeah. [00:39:20] Maya: Yeah. It’s, it’s a very, very competitive grant, so I kind of knew like I really wanted to knock it out of the park, so I kind of like overdid it in the best way. Well, [00:39:35] Joe: and apparently it worked. Right. Do you remember where you were when you opened up? [00:39:40] I’m assuming it was an email that you got that said you won. [00:39:43] Maya: I don’t even remember. It was such a blur, but. But yeah, I knew, yeah, that was the biggest grant. Like that was the start of everything. That moment. Um, yeah, because then one thing led to another where some, someone, my, my kind of co-partner on the film, Tessa, who also stutters, when she had heard an interview from one of my, one of my episodes, she was like, Maya, we need to do a documentary on this. [00:40:21] Is there any way to change that? And so, yeah, I, I, um, was able to change from an audio to a full on documentary. And so that’s like the pool of money we’ve been using to work on this documentary. [00:40:38] Joe: Well, before we talk about the bait and switch of, we got ’em with audio, let’s go video. No, I’m kidding. But we’ll talk about that change in a second. [00:40:47] The subject of this documentary you first saw on a episode of John Stewart. I understand. [00:40:54] Maya: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I just so happened to be watching this show, the, the problem with John Stewart on Apple, the tv, uh, ’cause my husband watches it a lot and I don’t really watch it, but I just so happen to be like watching it with him. [00:41:09] And I start listening to Jay speak about, um, his life story, how he’s, he’s advocating for people with felonies and his life, just like being out outside of prison and just like how much it was stacked against him and everything he was saying. I just felt this sense of like, oh my God, I need to like, reach out to this person and just tell him how much he’s inspired me. [00:41:44] And so, yeah, I found him on LinkedIn. Messaged him and he responded almost right away and was like, oh, I see you have a podcast about stuttering. I too stutter. And I didn’t hear him stutter at all. I was just kind of like, I just felt something. I was like, I pulled towards him just for him speaking. And then that was the moment that everything changed. [00:42:12] Joe: It’s so wild though, just by reaching out, I mean my, my impetus and I think this originally comes from stuttering, is to not reach out. Right? I think a lot of, for me, being an introvert is because of stuttering and I stutter more when I get tired. And so I’m always, to your point earlier, afraid that I’ll, you know, do something stupid or that I’ll stumble a lot and so I don’t reach out. [00:42:36] But just the power of making that one, I. That one connection that had nothing to do with anything ends up being this cool serendipity, just this cool fluke. Tell his story, this gentleman’s story. What is his name? And I mean, you mentioned, you mentioned prison and incarceration. How did having a stutter lead to incarceration? [00:42:59] Who is this gentleman? Introduce him to us. [00:43:02] Maya: Yes. So, um, Jay Jordan. Yeah. He’s a, a black man, born and raised in Stockton, California. Um, he grew up with a debilitating stutter, still stutters to this day. And his way of masking his stutter was like wanting to protect himself from bullies that would make fun of him for his stutter. [00:43:28] And so. Like a lot of us stutters, we develop coping mechanisms. And his coping mechanism was to put on a persona of like macho man, like the first time he really stood up for himself was he put his hands on his bully. And ever since then he kind of, um, used violence as a mask for his stutter and it kind of led him down a path where he eventually was incarcerated for something that he did, that he took the fall for. [00:44:01] And so he spent seven years in prison and through those years he kind of transformed and really came to terms with like his stutter and who he was and how he wasn’t this violent person. And it just. Takes us through his, his whole story. Um, and it also brings us to his present day story, which he has two sons who, who also stutter. [00:44:29] So there’s, and they’re just about to start school. And so he has this fear that the same things that happened to him would happen to his sons. And there’s this process happening of him letting go and do, doing his best as a father to be there for them while also letting them navigate school on their own. [00:44:55] So that’s, that’s the story. We’re still very early in pre-production, so there’s still a lot that we’re navigating, but that’s really who the, the story is revolving around. [00:45:10] Joe: You have made an early trailer. Let’s listen to a piece of, uh, the trailer and, uh, at Jay Jordan talking about his situation. [00:45:21] bit: I know who I am as a black man. [00:45:24] I know who I am as a person who stutters. [00:45:26] Maya: That’s Jay, and this is his story. Jay struggled with his stutter at school. [00:45:33] bit: The fact that they were trying to help also made it clear to me that something was wrong with me, that I had to fix, and I hated this room [00:45:44] Maya: and navigated feelings of being misunderstood. [00:45:47] bit: Uh, people thought I was, um, you know, kind of. You know, had autism or, you know, had some sort of mental illness because I didn’t wanna talk. [00:45:56] Maya: We are raising money to turn Jay’s story into a documentary film, and we need your help. One moment on the playground changed his life forever and eventually led to his incarceration. [00:46:09] bit: And I remember that day was kind of a, a turning point for me, which wasn’t a good turning point because it led me down a dark path. [00:46:19] Maya: But Jay’s story is about redemption and finding strength in his stutter. We need your help to make this film. To dispel the negative stereotypes around stuttering once and for all. [00:46:31] We are raising money to finish the film, which includes three more days of filming. [00:46:37] Joe: Uh, I’ll have you tell this in real time, about three more days of filming, but let’s talk first about the switch. So they give you a ton of money to create the documentary, and you go back to them and go, uh, hey, uh, I got a better idea, or a different idea. [00:46:55] Like, tell me about the conversation to take this audio documentary and turn it into a full blown picture. [00:47:02] Maya: Yeah, so I felt confident in that the, the switch would be okay, given that it had, it was the same theme and most of the, the grantees were doc documentaries, so I just kind of showed them that there’s like. [00:47:25] A story here that I think needs to be heard. And I think visually it’s just, there’s gonna be more of an impact telling the story visually than just audio. And so they, they said, sure. Totally. Yeah. [00:47:39] Joe: But then that changed your budget. I would think my Abby a ton to put it nicely. [00:47:44] Maya: Oh yeah. So now I’m in the process of like taking on a whole new skillset, which is budgeting for documentaries and which is something that I’m just learning as I go. [00:47:59] And so a lot is, has, has changed since we first decided to do a documentary. Um, but yeah, I’m just immersing myself and learning as much as I can and every day I feel more confident and yeah, it turns out I’m not like I’m, I have been able to. To raise a lot of money since that first grant, which is great. [00:48:27] But the, the level of funding we need to really meet our vision is astounding. So [00:48:36] Joe: how, how much money in all is that? [00:48:39] Maya: So our dream budget is around 1.5 million. Wow. Yeah. So that’s the feature that we’re trying to fund. Although, you know, I have a bare bones budget and a mid-tier budget. So we have like different scenarios, but the budget, our dream budget is the one that we’re sharing with, with investors and other foundations. [00:49:06] So, so yeah, my [00:49:08] Joe: mom has this great book, which is, uh, wisdom, uh, from eight year olds. And my favorite one, Maya, is, uh, if you want a kitty, start off by asking for a horse. Yeah. And yeah, Melissa H eight, pretty smart. Okay. You can’t ask for the horse later, right? Yeah. I mean, you need the dream budget and then go from there. [00:49:26] I watched the trailer and you can watch it on our show notes page at Stacking Benjamins dot com, a link to it, and it totally doesn’t look like this is your first project. I mean, that is a well done trailer. Like it’s well shot. Like I’ve never shot anything, but I’m a, for people that have listened to our show for a long time, I watch a ton of movies and this is very well shot. [00:49:45] It sounds like you’re, you’re learning this stuff, drinking through a fire hose? [00:49:49] Maya: Yeah, so I’m not actually the one behind the camera. Okay. Tessa is my, like co-director, Cova. Producer and she does a lot of video production for her job. She works for the PGA tour. Ever heard of it? [00:50:06] bit: No. [00:50:08] Maya: Yeah, so she actually does mini documentaries of a lot of the players. [00:50:13] So she’s the one that edited this. So we kind of share a lot of responsibilities. She’s the one that edited, she’s the one that found the crew, which is really small crew for this first shoot we did. And so that’s how we were able to kind of use these talented, um, cinematographers and film makers to capture the footage. [00:50:40] And then Tessa and I were in like director mode throughout the whole day and. Tess is a very talented editor as well, so we’re a good team. [00:50:53] Joe: I, I would imagine you’re very good at the script writing. [00:50:56] Maya: Yes. So yeah, I, I helped with that script. And my role really in this whole thing is getting, the funding for the film was going to all the film festivals, networking, marketing, kind of being that person that is just like building a, like a family around the film, um, is kind of how I like to describe myself. [00:51:25] Joe: I love the idea of like dream mid-level and bare bones, and I think that’s great. By the way, stackers in your individual life for budgeting budget. If I got my dream budget, if things are going really well, if they’re mid or if it’s super tight even there. But what have you learned about budgeting during your time budgeting for this project? [00:51:45] Maya: Oh my goodness. Yeah, I learned a lot from that first shoot. I tried my best to have as cheap of a budget as possible, but you kind of have to learn while you’re doing. So, you know, there were a lot of things that we kind of just had to learn as at that shoot. And one of the things that I didn’t anticipate is we needed a security guard to like make sure our equipment doesn’t get stolen. [00:52:17] Oh wow. We needed to get approval from the city, which had to be done like 10 days in advance. So there’s all these little things that I just didn’t know that I had really had to learn as I go. And so now for the next shoot, I can better prepare a budget that, that I can be really thoughtful about because what I’ve learned in the film, the film business is the most successful. [00:52:45] Producers know how to stay under budget. And so that’s really my North star in building my, the career now that I wanna do films as long as possible is like getting really good at budgeting and getting confidence from people who are working to like tap me because I know how to keep things under budget. [00:53:09] So that’s kind of like what I’ve been learning. [00:53:13] Joe: Well, I think it’s spot on. We spoke with, we had Don Hahn, the legendary producer from Disney on Maya, and I. You know, he did Beauty in the Beast, lion King, he’s done budgeted so many things, but he started off as an imagineer. And I remember asking him about being a guy that was on the artistic side and now being the guy that controls the purse strings. [00:53:34] And he said that if you don’t have a budget, if you don’t have constraints, nothing gets done. Once you say, Hey, you have to do it in this timeframe. I mean, this is why deadlines work, right? If I could gotta do it with this amount of money in this timeframe, it happens. But if you go, Hey, you got forever and dream big, you just, you just keep dreaming and, and nothing goes. [00:53:53] Maya: Yes, I definitely believe that too. And I feel like going through the process of making my first film is only gonna make me a stronger producer as I, as I continue on. [00:54:10] Joe: I love this because you’re looking at it also from a long range perspective. I wanna end on this ’cause I, you know, I started off saying there are things that are beyond money. [00:54:19] And certainly I’m sure that you, you are hoping, and I’m hoping as a stutter, that this project gets the same fame as a documentary, like free solo, you know, where I’m holding my breath the whole time, hoping this guy doesn’t die. And I’m hoping that it’s critically acclaimed that it has that type of commercial success. [00:54:40] But going in with a documentary, you know, this isn’t gonna be Star Wars at the box office. Mm-Hmm. Like how do you reconcile chasing this thing without the, you know, big money at the end zone? [00:54:53] Maya: Yeah. I think this just comes with having such an amazing team around the film. Tessa and I are both women who stutter and we check each other every step of the way. [00:55:06] Like we have, I. Our kind of impact vision for the film, and we don’t want anything to get in the way of that vision. So our goal is to just make a film that will make as much of an impact for people who stutter as possible. And so that’s why we’re dreaming big, because the more acclaim this film gets, the more people will watch it and the more our society will begin to understand people who’s a stutter. [00:55:34] So we’re not doing it for the claim ourselves, but we really just believe that people who stutter deserve to have a film that they can feel proud of and that they feel proud to share for their friends and family. And that’s why we’re taking our time and really being careful in trying to meet that vision and stay true to it every step of the way. [00:56:03] Joe: If people wanna help, where do they go? [00:56:07] Maya: So, yes, if you want to help, um, we actually just launched a new campaign to get the rest of our film funded during this pre-production phase. And so you can get that at rock of Hope film.com. [00:56:28] Joe: Awesome. And we will, again, stackers link to it in the, in the show notes at stacky Benjamins dot com. [00:56:34] Maya, thank you so much for mentoring our stackers today on the role of passion in the project about becoming somebody who can transform the way that, um, really not just stuttering, but the, the way that people view anything in our society. And just for, um, I don’t know, the passion you bring to this whole thing. [00:56:58] I super appreciate it. [00:56:59] Maya: Yeah, thank you so, so much for having me. And. Just one last thing. Like this film, whether you stutter or not, it’s for everyone because we all have been made to feel less than or ashamed or uncomfortable, and this is really a film about standing up to that and embracing your full self. [00:57:24] bit: This is Chris from Heavy Metal Money. When I’m not raging in the mosh pit, I’m Stacking. Benjamins. [00:57:30] Joe: Big thanks to Maya. And so inspirational when you see somebody changing lives in an area that they are as passionate about as Maya is. And of course, um. The fact that a stutter helps send somebody to jail. [00:57:44] Also, just kind of a, kind of a wild story there. Time for us to shine the light on one stacker that said, you know what? I better call Saul. See Hi N og. This is the part of the show where we help you get your questions answered about your money. So if you’ve got one, send it to me. You head to stack your Benjamins dot com slash voicemail, and, uh, you then can sound as cool as Dan does. [00:58:10] Dan from Charleston, who’s asking today’s question? Hey Dan. [00:58:15] caller: Hey Joe and OG and neighbor Doug. This is Dan from Charleston, longtime listener, second time caller. I think, uh, and I have a procedural question. Assuming one was going to follow OGs, general retirement advice, and that is to be in a hundred percent securities equities, uh, all the way up to and through retirement, and then to mitigate, uh, the rocky ride, the sequence of return risk with a big pile of cash. [00:58:40] How do you recommend clients go about piling up that cash? Uh, have you found it to be better for them to, in the eight or 10 years before they reach the age in which they plan to retire, to divert their retirement savings into cash? For us at, at $30,000 a year, if we need to do that for about eight or 10 years to get to about 300,000, which is where we would need to be in cash, or do you recommend they go past 59 and a half and then at some point between 59 and a half and the age at which they plan to retire, they begin to pull that money out of investments and putting it into cash? [00:59:13] And if so, is it better to do that from your Roth or from your tax deferred accounts? And I know, I know, I know the answer is gonna be, well, it depends on your situation, but surely you have some rules of thumb that you guys go by to help clients make that decision, and I would love to hear those. Thank you guys so much. [00:59:32] Joe: Uh, I love this question, Dan. I’d love the order of operations question. Thank you so much for that. So OG you strongly advocate having no bonds in a portfolio and to uh, Dan’s point then instead keep cash on hand. So when the market fluctuates, like it may have a couple weeks ago, fluctuates is a nice word. [00:59:54] We don’t have to worry about it, that we can stay invested. So how do we get to that cash position? And he used a number of $300,000 sitting in cash about how much cash are we looking at? [01:00:04] OG: Just to be clear about a couple of things, it’s not about the market fluctuating because obviously last week or, or you know, over the last month really since the 1st of July, the stock market’s generally gone down over that period of time, still up for the year, which is great, but we don’t remember the good times. [01:00:20] We only remember the bad when the market’s going down. It’s, it’s more around preventing your withdrawal from assets that have declined a lot. So say for example, that you’re the person who retired January 1st, 2008. You know, you have a million dollars, you’re gonna withdraw $40,000 a year. That’s your distribution plan. [01:00:38] You’re gonna do the 4% thing. By the time you got to September, and certainly beyond, as you got into March of 2009, your portfolio was down 40, 50% at that point. So somewhere along the line, you had to make a decision of when am I gonna stop taking money from this portfolio? And what we recommend is picking a dollar amount or picking, most people don’t spend percentages, so it’s tough to live in percentage world. [01:01:06] But looking at your balance and saying, all right, I have a million dollars in my brokerage account. I’m taking 40 grand a year. If this thing goes down below 800 K, I’m gonna not take any money from my brokerage account until it recovers. And statistically, giving yourself the opportunity for that to, you know, for the market to have recession and recover and all that sort of stuff, you need about two years. [01:01:27] If you wanna be conservative, you need about three. So in that example. Somewhere between 80 and $120,000 you’d have in cash to support your $40,000 a year withdrawal. So it’s not just, Hey, the market’s down this week, I’m gonna take it outta cash instead of my account. It’s once I’ve breached this point, then I’m gonna completely stop from withdrawals from the equity portion of the portfolio until I’ve run through all the cash because it’s gone down and now we have to give it enough time for it to do whatever it’s gonna do, the recession to happen, the recovery to start happening, and for the market to recover. [01:02:00] So it’s a long process. And so the question that he had at the beginning was, when do I start building that excess cash and how do I get to it? So in that example of, Hey, I’ve got a million bucks. I wanna have $40,000 a year, that’s my spending and I wanna have $80,000 worth of distributions and cash. How do I get that 80,000? [01:02:21] I would have that $80,000 on the day that you’re retired. Now, there’s a couple of different ways to do it. One way he said was, well, should I divert some savings over the course of the preceding few years to kind of increase to 80,000? Should I just sell something when I get to retirement, boom, that day I rebalance and all of a sudden I have 80,000 in cash. [01:02:41] My preference would be for that option because you’re having your money be invested as long as possible. Now, there could be opportunities more tactically as you are getting close to retirement. Maybe you’re rebalancing, you’re two years away and a portion of your portfolio has gone up a whole bunch. [01:02:58] You own Nvidia stock or something and you go, I’m gonna take a little off the table. Maybe that’s a good time to tactically say, I’m gonna take a little bit and that’ll start building that cash. That’s not as much of a rebalance issue, but my preference would be when your situation changes, that’s when you’re gonna change your portfolio. [01:03:14] Not like I think it’s gonna change in 10 years from now. Therefore. And that’s what we’re trying to prevent, right? We’re trying to prevent you from being too conservative too early in your portfolio. And so if you go, well, I’m gonna take 10 years to build up this cash, well that’s 10 years that that cash wasn’t being invested. [01:03:31] And over the course of that 10 year period, that’s another doubling of that cash give or take, right? So my preference would be to wait as late as possible. Obviously there’s some situations where maybe tactically it would make sense to get a little ahead of that, but generally speaking, I would wait. The next part of the question he asked was, and so where do I put that cash? [01:03:50] Do I put that in my IRA? Do I put in my brokerage? Do I put in my Roth? That is gonna very much depend, unfortunately, based on, you know, where all the rest of your money is. If you have a whole bunch of money in a Roth and a little bit of money in a brokerage account, not very much money, that’s pre-tax, well then obviously your distributions are largely gonna come from your Roth throughout retirement. [01:04:12] I would look at where the distributions are coming from. You know, where’s the allocation of your portfolio in terms of asset location? And as you plan on your distributions over that period of time, over the next, whatever, three years, where are the asset locations for the distributions gonna come from? [01:04:28] And that’s largely where I would have the, the excess, uh, cash reserve. He said something about 300,000. I don’t know what that was tied to unless he was trying to give an example of how much, 300,000 in cash. To me, you would need to be spending 150 KA year to have 300,000 cash. And if you’re spending one 50 a year, 300 in cash, you probably have a three or $4 million investment portfolio, you know, give or take maybe a little bit more, you know, while 300,000 seems like a lot in cash, like, holy cow, what am I gonna do with all that cash against the backdrop of a $4 million portfolio? [01:05:01] It’s like 9%, a little under 10. So it’s really not that much as part of your overall portfolio. You’re not as cash heavy as it might sound to some people listening. I mean, it’s a lot of money, undoubtedly and absolute amounts. And you know, the whole purpose of this isn’t to optimize a bunch of stuff. [01:05:17] It’s to say, how do I stay invested as long as possible and then give myself the opportunity to wait it out? ’cause the last thing that you wanna do is be drawing money from a portfolio as the market’s in a recession and you’re down 30%. And Covid Iss a great example. It was down 30% in 17 days. If you executed this, if you’re the person who has a million dollars 80,000 in cash March 1st, you would’ve taken your money out like normal by April 1st. [01:05:48] Let’s say that your threshold was a minus 25%, the portfolio was down. If it’s all s and p portfolio was down. Roughly 30% by April 1st, right? So you’re gonna switch over to cash. And from April 1st, 2020 through March 31st, 2022, that two year period, all you do is spend all your cash, regardless of what happens in the market. [01:06:09] You spend all your cash. So you know, you had a million dollars, it went down to 700,000, and then by the end of that two year period later, you’re outta cash, right? You’re like, okay. Now what? Your s and p fund had gone from basically 700,000 back to 1,000,003, just by giving it time to sort out what was happening during that, during, you know, in this case it was covid, but that’s true in all the recessionary periods. [01:06:37] About 30 months is the time. So you just wanna give yourself enough time to ride out the wave, and that’s what the cash does. [01:06:44] Joe: Dan, thanks for the question. And if, uh, you’ve got a question for us, much like Dan’s. Stack Benjamins dot com slash voicemail is the way to get there. But if you are not worried about just, uh, cash in your portfolio, really you need to make sure that your portfolio dovetails with your goals. [01:07:03] And I know for a lot of people that doesn’t happen. We did a story og you remember the story just last week about too many people roll over the IRA and leave it in cash. I had so many people write to me after we put out the 2 0 1 the next day telling me they just hit reply on the 2 0 1 newsletter and told me, yep, this is me. [01:07:22] I feel like I’m seeing my, i a still sitting in cash, not sure what to do. [01:07:28] OG: Yep. A lot [01:07:29] Joe: of people, I [01:07:29] OG: mean, Vanguard said it was a third of people, right? [01:07:31] Joe: Yeah. Gotten caught in that trap. If you need to make sure your plan dovetails, so G and his team are taking clients, so head to Stacking Benjamins dot com. [01:07:39] Slash og. That’s the link to OGs team’s calendar. It’s the first step to see how you can find yourself skipping through the rest of 2024. Like it’s a field of dandelions and sunflowers and beautiful flowers with some wonderful music playing in the background. The rest of your life is just giggling, and [01:08:01] OG: that’s exactly what it’s like. [01:08:02] Does that sound [01:08:03] Joe: a little, little over the top? No, I don’t know. Stinky budgets.com/slash og. Doug. I’ve got some really cool stuff for the back porch [01:08:11] Doug: today. I bet you don’t. Oh, but what am I supposed to say to that? Okay. What’s your cool stuff, Joe? [01:08:18] Joe: Okay. Well, and actually none of it comes from me. Uh, the first one comes from stacker, John. [01:08:24] Who listened to our show with Len Penso last week? You, you know I had that rampage last week. The open face is not a sandwich. It is not. No, it’s an abomination. Yeah, it’s not a sandwich. [01:08:35] Doug: I’m with you. [01:08:36] Joe: Just when I see open face sandwich, I’m like, it’s, it’s open something. But get rid of the word sandwich. He also lays it down. [01:08:46] He also, I don’t know how you guys feel about this, but he says that the club is also not a sandwich because of the fact that it has three what pieces of bread and not two. Making it Not a sandwich. No. What In fact, he says the Big Mac a lasagna. He said that’s cake. That, that is cake. When you, when, when you pass two pieces of bread or two pieces of carb layering [01:09:11] Doug: it’s cake? [01:09:11] No. Okay. You’re gonna make me get technical on you here. The reason that the sandwich was invented was because while the Earl of Sandwich was playing cards, he wanted to be able to eat with one hand while he was still playing cards with the other. So having the second piece of bread allowed him to pick up the meat while he was still playing cards. [01:09:33] So he, that’s so you can’t throw cake and lasagna in there because those require forks. Unless you were like me last Thursday, but let’s forget about that for a second. The club is, or the Big Mac, absolutely a sandwich because it still has bread on the top and the bottom. I don’t care if you have 11 pieces of bread in between, you can still pick it up with one hand and shove it in your face hole that counts as the sandwich. [01:09:58] The club is fantastic, [01:10:01] Joe: but John’s saying, in fact, he goes to a website called Cube rule.com. People can go there asking, and the first thing they ask is, is a hot dog then a sandwich? [01:10:13] Doug: Sure, I’ll allow it. Yes. You know, speaking of club sandwiches, you may know that not too long ago, my son Tucker and I went to Scotland for a golfing vacation. [01:10:22] Oh ho mate. Unbelievable trip of a lifetime. Except for the food. Except for the food. We got to the point where we were begging for a, just gimme a simple club sandwich. Can’t screw that up. Except they can because they don’t know how to make bacon. All we want is a basic club sandwich. Just give us a simple club sandwich. [01:10:42] OG: What you should have done is ordered one person orders a Turkey sandwich with double Turkey. One person orders a Sam ham sandwich with double ham. Then make your own club sandwich. [01:10:53] Doug: Well, [01:10:53] OG: that would’ve been a good start and shear the one piece of bread. [01:10:55] Doug: Yeah. That would’ve been a good start. That’s a good thought. [01:10:58] Except the difference maker in a club sandwich is the bacon. Bacon’s Gross. So I don’t agree with that. The Brits still have no idea how to make bacon. I know you’re not a huge fan, but I mean, that’s what makes the club to me is crisp lettuce. Crisp tomato, crisp bacon, and then, yeah, Turkey and ham. Awesome. [01:11:17] But not a lot of deli meat over there. In fact, now that you mention it, can’t remember seeing any on many places we went to. And the, the ham is really like the ham you eat at Easter time, that thick little chewy. Oh, [01:11:31] Joe: thicker ham. [01:11:32] Doug: Yeah. And it just, yeah. Doesn’t work. That doesn’t belong on a sandwich. No. And some places would say, crispy bacon or regular bacon. [01:11:41] Crispy bacon, please. You left it in the air fryer for an extra 10 seconds. It’s not crispy. It’s crisp. Tell us how you really feel. Oh, I’m so still outraged by it. [01:11:53] Joe: Well, besides the food though, how were the prices? Was it bad food and expenses? No, [01:11:57] Doug: that’s, that’s interesting you bring that up. I wouldn’t say it was, and the, one of the reasons why we thought it was far more affordable, no tipping and taxes included. [01:12:09] So it really felt like you were getting like a 30% discount on your food. Wow. Because between the, oh, hey, would you like to automatically tip 50% and then throw in, you know? Right. Wherever you live, 6%, 8% tax, whatever it is. We were almost, every time we got done eating, we were surprised at how small the number was at the bottom of the bill. [01:12:29] Our [01:12:30] OG: bourbon budget, our scotch budget is way higher than we thought. [01:12:33] Doug: Right. [01:12:34] OG: This is awesome. [01:12:34] Doug: No, but even, yeah, exactly. I mean, even with drinks included. You get done with a dinner with you know, four or five scotches, uh, and whatever normal meals and you’re still like 60 pounds, 70 PI mean, it was fantastic. [01:12:48] That part of it was great. Just the actual taste bud experience. Not as good as the receipt experience. [01:12:56] Joe: I got just a couple more, uh, things here from the back porch. We’ve got a stacker who is in the Olympics, of course. We talked to Olympian, Lauren Williams at the beginning of the Olympics if you want to go back. [01:13:07] And she walked us through what it was like, uh, what the Olympic experience was, but we got a stacker that hopefully will be able to get him on. He’s representing the United States and the Paralympics, which is going to start on August 28th. His name is Evan Wilkerson and, uh, go Evan. I love it when we got people in the stacker community who are Olympians. [01:13:27] Super excited for that. And you know what? In the basement we will talk about when and how to follow what Evan is doing. His, uh, very proud mom and I have been chatting back and forth and, uh, he’s got some, some serious. Chances to me, she says his, his best chance of meddling is in the 100 backstroke, which is gonna be on August 31st. [01:13:52] OG: That’s pretty awesome. Yeah. [01:13:53] Joe: That’s so cool. Speaking of August 31st, that Labor Day weekend, uh, my son Nick and I will be in Minneapolis. So come hang out with us before Camp five. That’s gonna be Thursday, August 29th. We’ll be in Stillwater just outside of Minneapolis. Come join us in a bunch of, uh, stackers and people headed to Camp five the next day. [01:14:11] So hopefully if you’re in the Minneapolis St. Paul area, stack your Benjamins dot com slash meetup to come, uh, join us. That’s how you can get the details. But it’s at six 30 at night at the Red Siren. And, uh, lots of our stacker buddies and our financial independence friends. I’m gonna be hanging out there, uh, around Minneapolis. [01:14:29] Really looking forward to another campfire experience into seeing a bunch of our Midwest friends up there. Doc G’s gonna be joining me. Good. I also found, uh, that out as well. All right. That’s gonna do it for today, Doug, what should we have learned? Man, there was a lot. What should we have learned on today’s episode? [01:14:46] Doug: Well, Joe, I can tell you three of ’em. First, take some advice from Maya Chuko. Have a goal. Use the fact that you are quickly becoming smart about budgets to go get that goal. You can change your community and change your own life with your new Benjamin Stacking superpower. Second, while we hope you grab a big raise. [01:15:06] It’s better to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Tighten the belt, get that emergency fund in place, and tackle that list of talking points to secure a raise. But what’s the biggest to do? I gotta get myself a suit of chain mail to hold me over until my psda armor is finished. I gotta have something to protect my cargo shorts and big dogs T-shirts. [01:15:30] If the medieval Times restaurant calls before I’m knighted. [01:15:36] Thanks to Maya Chipko for joining us today. You’ll find details about her film, rock of Hope, and how you can support making it@proudstutterer.org. We’ll also include links in our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. This show is the Property of SB podcasts LLC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy. [01:16:00] Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. [01:16:21] This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. [01:16:39] caller: Okay. I’ve sat here trying to think of something pleasant to say after that, and I can’t.
Leave a Reply