There are three words that quietly end up costing more than almost any bad investment: “he handles it.” Not because delegating is wrong, but because somewhere between division of labor and total disengagement, a line gets crossed that most couples never notice until a crisis forces them to. This episode is about that line, and about the less obvious ways money stress shows up when it’s not just a spreadsheet problem, it’s a physical one. Jill Schlesinger and Kristy Talorico both join the show, and each brings something you didn’t know you needed to hear.
What You’ll Walk Away With
- The real difference between splitting responsibilities and losing all visibility into your own financial life
- A simple, low-stakes way to start a money conversation with a partner who’s checked out, without triggering defensiveness
- Why financial advisors dread meeting a client’s “uninvolved” spouse for the first time after a death
- What actually happens to your financial life if your money-handling spouse suddenly can’t do it anymore
- How financial stress physically changes your body, according to a major new health study
- Why the standard advice to “just put more in your 401k” completely misses people who are financially struggling right now
- The surprising first place financial counselors suggest looking before you take out any kind of loan
- A behind-the-scenes look at how employers are (and aren’t) using workplace benefits to actually help people
Why This Matters Now
In your 40s, you’re often the connective tissue for your whole household’s financial life, sometimes for a spouse, sometimes for aging parents, sometimes for kids just starting out. It’s easy to assume that as long as someone in the relationship understands the money, everyone’s fine. But real financial confidence means everyone involved has at least a working map of where things stand. This episode isn’t about becoming an expert. It’s about making sure “I don’t really know” is never the answer when it matters most.
From the Basement
Doug’s trivia question drags in an unexpected lesson about knowing what things actually mean, not just recognizing the name, which somehow ties together German car history and financial literacy in the same segment. Basement logic, but it works.
Resources Mentioned
Findhelp.org — the free navigation tool for local financial and hardship resources
Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger — Jill’s new podcast with Mark Talercio
Jill on Money podcast — Jill Schlesinger’s long-running personal finance show
“The Most Dangerous Words I Hear From Married Couples: ‘He Handles It'” — the Kiplinger piece referenced in the episode
Brightside Financial Care — Kristy Talorico’s company, financial care benefits for employers
Our Mentors:
Jill Schlesinger
Big thanks to Jill Schlesinger for joining us today. To learn more about Jill, visit Money Moves — Jill on Money. Grab yourself a copy of the book The Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money: Thirteen Ways to Right Your Financial Wrongs
Kristy Talorico
Big thanks to Kristy Talorico for joining us today. To learn more about Kristy and what Brightside offers, visit Brightside.
Doug’s Trivia
- On this day in 1938, Volkswagen was founded. What does the name Volkswagen literally mean in English?
Have a question for the show?
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Other Mentions
Join Us Wednesday
Tune in tomorrow when Wall Street Journal reporter Justin Baer takes us inside Fidelity to reveal how the financial giant grew, who controls it, and what investors should know about the company holding trillions of dollars.
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Miss our last show? Listen here: When Should You Take Social Security? Avoid These Costly Mistakes (SB1873) | Stacking Benjamins
Episode transcript
opener: [00:00:00] Where’s the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom
Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement, it’s The Stacking Benjamins Show
I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and wait, hold on. Tuesday, Tuesday and SB? Well, go ahead and pinch yourself because that’s right. To get you ready for our Financial Action Month kicking off next week, we’re bringing you some awesome special shows. First, you’ve heard those people who say, “Oh, my spouse takes care of that.”
Well, CBS business analyst and host of the Jill on Money podcast joins us to share why that’s a problem and what you can do if you have a friend, spouse, or significant other who refuses to learn about money. And then we’ll take the most [00:01:00] important break of the day for my incredible trivia question, bonus trivia, and how about yet another guest?
Okay, you’ve got it. In the second half of today’s show, how much stress is your money situation causing? If it’s a lot, you know what’s not making it better? Your workplace benefits and education. One woman is with a firm trying to help the world change that. We’ll chat with Kristy Talarico from Brightside Financial Care.
All that on a Tuesday? You betcha. And now, here comes a guy who’s got the microphone hot, Joe Saul-Sehy.
Joe: Hey there, Stackers. Happy Tuesday. How often have you heard me say those words? Uh, welcome to the greatest money show on Earth, the Stacking Benjamins show. We’re super happy that you’re here. We are happy to be here on a Tuesday.
In fact, the guy Skip to the microphone’s here with me, Mr. OG. How are you, man? [00:02:00]
OG: Skippedy-doo-dah. Uh, fantastico. I love working extra days. Thank you for the overtime pay.
Joe: Well, the, the, the good news is we’re actually going to give you kind of an easy day, ’cause you’re here to help us introduce stuff, and maybe we can talk about, um, your air conditioning situation later on on your side of the basement, ’cause it’s not good right now, huh?
OG: It wasn’t good, and then it’s good now. Yeah. It’s a whole story arc
Joe: Yeah. It’s hard to keep up. Hard to keep up. One person it’s also hard to keep up with because she’s always doing something new and fun, Jill Schlesinger coming down to the basement. Maybe, maybe one of my favorite people in personal finance.
Well, definitely one of my favorite people, and I will tell you, I’ve, I’ve said this myself, the Jill on Money show is the show that goes with me when I’m out walking, when I used to run before, before my ankle injury. Jill on Money when it comes to personal finance, just loves the way [00:03:00] she tackles questions, loves the way Jill thinks, and, uh, super happy that she’s gonna extend her expertise that she has, not only on the Jill on Money show, but also on CBS News-
Doug: She’s
Joe: everywhere
uh, here in mom’s basement today. Yeah, and then Christy Talarico. You know, OG, when people look at their HR benefits, we miss a huge swath of people according to recent, uh, data that just came out. The data in your benefits says, “Hey, put more money in your 401.” There’s a big portion of the workforce that doesn’t have any idea where that money would come from.
Like, they’re so worried about tomorrow’s dinner that they don’t know where it’s gonna come from. So Christy Talarico gonna talk about how we solve that problem. And if you’re a stacker and you know somebody who’s, is struggling, maybe this is the perfect episode for them. Or you’ve got somebody like Doug that just doesn’t wanna learn about personal finance.
We’re gonna talk to Jill about that. We’ve got a fantastic… I love the look. I just got the look, OG. Did you see that? That was [00:04:00] fantastic.
Doug: Just over here cruising Facebook, not paying attention, and then you’re just taking shots at me.
Joe: People are wondering- Pretty enjoyable … why are we doing five episodes this week.
It’s because Financial Literacy Month is every April. And, you know, that’s fine. It’s good that you learn more. But without doing anything, it doesn’t matter. So next month we’re calling Financial Action Month, and to get you rolling on it, you’ve heard of bingo. Time for you to play Stacko. If you go to stackingbenjamins.com/stacko, you can get your board, and over the next month we’re gonna talk about some easy financial moves you can make to send your personal financial situation skyrocketing.
Just what you wanna have happen. Stackingbenjamins.com/stacko to get your bingo board, uh, your Stacko board to have fun with us next month. All right. Speaking of fun, Jill Schlesinger upstairs talking to mom. We’re gonna hear [00:05:00] from a couple sponsors who help us keep on keeping on, and then we’re talking to Jill on Money, Jill Schlesinger, coming down to mom’s basement
Well, and I’m super happy this woman’s back with us. Jill Schlesinger’s here.
Jill: Yes.
Joe: How are you?
Jill: Well, you can see I’m still in my Knicks high. So I just wanna point that out to all of your listeners and viewers, whoever, however they access you, that, uh, I’m an old Knicks fan who was a fan in the ’70s. Yeah, I’m that old.
It was a long time coming. So when, um, announcer Mike Breen said, “Oh, go ahead and cry,” we were crying. It was amazing. Anyway, hi.
Joe: Everybody, that whole town was, was crazy. Yes. I was there. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to see you, but I was there when they made it to the finals, and it was a madhouse then, Jill.
Jill: Funny, you were here and didn’t see me because you were here and you didn’t reach out to me
Joe: [00:06:00] Well-
Jill: So this is, here comes the Jewish guilt. Here it comes
Joe: Let’s move, let’s move on.
Jill: Moving on.
Joe: I can only spend so much time around my heroes, you know? Oh, God. It’s just- I’m
Jill: your shero.
Joe: All right, let’s get into this because one of my favorite recent pieces that I read came from Kiplinger.
Financial planner Tracy Burns wrote this about what she called the most dangerous words she heard- Mm … from married couples during her years as a financial advisor, and those words were, “He handles it.” Ugh. But Jill, t- tell me how you really feel. I’d, I’d actually like to make this bigger. I wanna set this up because what worries me isn’t husbands or wives, it’s any time somebody says they handle it, right?
Yeah. Totally. My advisor handles it, my spouse handles it, accounting handles it, HR handles
Jill: it. How about my dad? My dad handles it. Right. My mom, my parents. I know. It’s like, I think that when you and I were in the business, which was 100 years ago, we ran into this in a very gendered way [00:07:00] most of the time, right?
Like, it was like, “Oh, my husband handles this.”
Joe: Almost always.
Jill: It’s the ’90s. That’s what it was. Now, I am shocked to find out that so often it’s, um, now with my new show, with Money Moves, which I’m gonna do the shameless plug, obviously, that when we are hearing from younger people, a lot of people are talking about how their parents are doing their stuff.
So I am one of those people who’s, like, kind of, I think you are too, it’s like you get very uncomfortable when somebody has outsourced the, a job, and you basically just walk away from it, which is not to say that all of us in committed relationships don’t have a division of labor. But division of labor does not, not mean you’re uninterested, uninvolved, and don’t know.
That’s where the line is quite clear to me. What about you? What do you think, Joe?
Joe: N- no, 100%. There’s a, um, there’s a story we did recently about a family, you might have seen this in The Wall Street Journal, Jill, about their 17-year-old [00:08:00] son is their financial advisor, quote-unquote. And then we talked about, you know, as a 17-year-old, even if they know a ton, do they have enough life experience- Mm
to truly advise Mom and Dad? But, but let’s do this. Let’s, every family, you mentioned this, every family divides responsibilities. One person cooks. One person schedules vacations. Maybe one person pays the bills.
Jill: Mm-hmm.
Joe: What is really wrong with this picture of dividing responsibilities?
Jill: I don’t have a problem with dividing responsibilities.
I have a problem with uninvolved and don’t know. So let’s drill down on this. Obviously, a vacation, no biggie, but let’s go to the bill pay. Example, I pay the bills in my household. I know that’s shocking to you. Right. But- Why? You know zero about this stuff … my, the, yeah. So my wife, I sit down with her, and I’m like, “Let me show you exactly the bill paying system that I have developed,” which is not perfect.
You know, like, we all get into ruts, but why do I do that? Not [00:09:00] because I really think she’s gonna take over at any time, although I’m happy to actually have her do it at, you know, and have the role reversal. But let’s just pretend, I don’t know, like I drop dead tomorrow. God forbid, poo, poo, poo. Okay.
Joe: That’s funny.
I used to call it the bus test. Yeah. I would tell my clients, I’m like, “My job is not to take this from you. My job is if I get hit by a bus, you’re smarter about this stuff tomorrow than you are today.”
Jill: Absolutely. So okay, let’s do your, use your bus, ’cause I used this in my first book when I said my great fear was getting hit by the M57, which comes swinging around the West End Avenue, right near the Broadcast Center, okay?
So you get hit by a bus. Now your partner, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your husband, your wife, has no idea how to pay the bills? I mean, what? That seems insane, and let’s take it a step further. Let’s say that not only do they not know how to pay the bills, but they have no idea, like, where the money really is.
Where are the accounts? Who are the people that you’re, they’re talking to? Is there an advisor? Where is the estate- Well, even- … planning [00:10:00] document?
Joe: Even something as simple as what are the passwords to get in?
Jill: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, oh my… Everyone should have one password, but I don’t like that service 1Password.
There’s some way to do it- We all have this crazy list of passwords that’s floating around somewhere, but yes, you gotta know where that is. You know, listen, I feel like I have honed this. This is so embarrassing for me to say to you, but, like, when my dad died in 20… So we had, my father-in-law died in 2011.
My own father died in 2013. It was like a crash course in how much of a pain in the neck it is to deal with these types of issues after someone dies. And my dad actually gave me the list of passwords, gave me the list of accounts, but there were a few things he, like, forgot to put on some, w- w- you know, in, in one place or another.
And, you know, frankly, my mother had no idea. Zero. So it was incumbent upon me to be the… Like, I was kind of, kind of right about this, talk about this ad nauseam, ’cause I [00:11:00] feel like these are avoidable issues. And I’m sure that you have heard from people, spoken to people, it’s like, big death is a pain. It really, it’s a thing also.
It’s like dealing with all these companies, dealing with all these things. If you have the passwords and the accounts and you know, and you have a conversation and you kn- you have a relationship with someone, Joe. Like, when you were an advisor, even if there was an uninvolved spouse, weren’t you, like, bummed when that person didn’t show up to a meeting?
Joe: I made it mandatory- Yes … that they had to come.
Jill: Yes.
Joe: And I would spend most of my time talking to the uninvolved spouse.
Jill: Yes, because you want there to be continuity. You want someone to feel comfortable. And by the way, the number of people who will say to me, like, “Oh, that’s his job, her job,” I always say, “Well, it’s okay to have that person be the job, but don’t you have an opinion?
Do you have any voice in this?” I think it’s… And, and there’s an in- I was just at a conference with a bunch of really smart, powerful women advisors. Finan- you know, CFPs, [00:12:00] fiduciaries. And I was talking to them, and they were telling me how they have spent so much time scooping up business from other advisors.
When the husband dies, the advisor has no relationship with the wife, and then in come the, these people who are like, “You’re the uninvolved spouse and no one’s ever talked to you, like, to your eye? You didn’t have a Joe in your life or a Jill in your life?” Oh, my God. It’s horrifying for
Joe: everybody.
Jill: Right?
Joe: What a horrifying conversation. “Hi, I’m your financial planner. I know where everything is, and I don’t know you.”
Jill: Exactly. Exactly right. So let me ask you another question, though. So what is your opinion of the… You know, we know that there is, there is certainly a group of younger people, let’s call them under 35, many of whom rely on their parents much longer than our generation did.
How do you feel about the parents saying, like, “Oh, my advisor will take care of your account here or your account there”? What do you think about that? [00:13:00]
Joe: I think having a continuity, like a family financial, uh, relationship with the same person doesn’t bother me. What would bother me is handing it over to a person that just because my parents use them, it doesn’t mean they know anything about me.
If every single person that this advisor works with is my parents’ age, and they don’t work with people in my age group dealing with this stuff, y- you know, I mean, I’m a, I’m a 50-something-year-old dude. My kids are in their early 30s, Jill. They’re dealing with completely different stuff- Mm-hmm … than I’m dealing with, and is the advisor equipped to do that?
Like, you and I know some fantastic advisors, but the best ones go, “You know what? I work with women 50 and older. I work with people who are in their 30s in the tech fields, you know- Yes … uh, dealing with stock options. That’s what I do all day.” I like the continuity, but I wanna know more about the advisor and their ability to handle my stuff, not just my parents’ stuff.[00:14:00]
Jill: I would almost prefer if you had a firm, and I know a lot of firms will do this, where they have their younger advisors come in, and they meet with the children of their clients and develop their own relationship. And I mean, I think it’s very nice if the parent’s like, “I’ll pay for that. Like, I will pay for your advisor relationship, but let me push you.”
Like, this is part of your job. You wanna create financially independent kids. I understand that especially if you have a parent who’s, like, in the business or associated with the business that… But you know what? Having your own relationship where you can be completely candid with your advisor in a way that you can’t be with your parent.
I’m sorry, you cannot be that person. You know, what if you have to have that moment where you’re like, “My God, my parents paid for this amazing education. I have a good job, but I hate it, and now I need to think about something else”? You’re want- you wanna have that conversation with your parent there? Uh-uh, no way.
Joe: No. Uh-uh. Not in a million years.
Jill: No.
Joe: We did a story about this, about parents helping their kids buy a house, and one mother-in-law was coming along. [00:15:00] Imagine OG on our show said this. Imagine your mother-in-law weighing in on whether the house is good for you or
Jill: not. Dude, I cannot believe you said that. This is, like, one of the things that’s, like, up, like, it really kind of is amazing to me.
There are so many parents who are like, “I’m gonna help you buy a house.” I’m like, h- b- h- they’ll come on Jill on Money, like the big show.
opener: Yeah.
Jill: And they’ll say, “I have $250,000 that I wanna give my kid to buy a house.” I said, “Does your kid want to buy a house?” “Well, I haven’t asked.” Well, uh, okay. This is what you wanna do.
Look, the whole reason I started Money Moves is that I felt like I could be like a, um, like, a lover, not a fighter. I wanna bring generations together. I really do. I really want generational conversations to occur- Yeah … that are positive. I don’t wanna hear from my coworkers that like, “Oh, these young kids, they’re so la…”
They’re not lazy. They have different value system than you do. And I, I mean, I basically have said the whole point of Money Moves is to [00:16:00] say to a different generation, Aunt Jill or Uncle Joe, you can come on the program with me, that we wanna be there to help you, that we want to be there to be the person, uh, the people, the kinds of resources that get where you’re coming from.
I feel like we need to meet people where they are, and the whole point of the programs that we produce is to say to somebody, “You are where you are. You’re not your parents. You grew up differently. You have a different… Like, you have a different angle on this. I get it,” but there’s no judgment in that.
It’s so much harder to do this when you’re the parent. So we have to really give people the power to say like, “I need to access information. I need to be able to understand what is important that I… What can I outsource? Where do I have to be involved?” Basically, when it comes to your money, you should be involved, at least knowledgeable about all aspects of your financial life, and that you should really be part of a process that…
And, and it’s not an event. Joe, so many [00:17:00] times people will be like, “Here’s the thing that was sold to me. What should I do?”
Joe: Right. Yeah. I actually got an email about that this morning. “What should I do? I just had a index universal life policy sold to me.” Oh, boy, and then we’re, you know, we’re-
Jill: Are we in a 10-day period?
Can we just get out of it? Well,
Joe: that’s- Are we, are we good with that? That’s, that’s where we’re starting, right. I wanna tackle this from two different angles because the people that listen to shows like yours and like Stacking Benjamins are generally the money geek in the family, right? Totally. You’re jonesing on this, so let’s do this.
If you’re the money geek in the family and you’re the person that handles it, how do you begin to involve the other person? Because what bothered me in these meetings, Jill, and it might have bothered you too, was that often the money geek was so excited- that they would create this Camp David fricking summit- Yes
that the non-money- Totally … geek wants nothing to do with, right? They’re like- Yeah … “Oh my God, please.” It’s like, you know, when your friend loves board games and you don’t, right? They wanna have [00:18:00] 45 minutes of rules, ’cause I’m that guy who wants to teach you the board game. But how do you begin to involve the person, and not talk down to them, and not overwhelm them?
Jill: I wanna do two things. I wanna talk as if you are having a conversation at home versus with the financial advisor, okay? So you’re home and you wanna have a, you, I think it’s really smart to be able to say, “Let’s do a quarterly financial meeting. Not when we’re having a fight about money, not when some event occurs, but every quarter when we get our retirement account statements, let’s just sit down and make sure we’re on the same page.”
That is a meeting where you explain, like, “By the way, oh, you know, we had this strange thing happen. The market went up a lot, and our accounts which are on automatic rebalancing were just magically put back into our allocation.” “Oh, what’s our allocation?” “It’s this and this.” “What does that mean?” Or- “It’s this or this”
Joe: what is auto rebalancing?
Jill: It’s like the [00:19:00] best thing since sliced bread, is what it really is. Um, and it- Well, well,
Joe: yeah, but I’m saying the person might be so uninvolved, Jill, they might not even know what that means …
Jill: and so if they don’t know a term that you say, you use this as like, okay, it is a, it is a moment to be able to explain but not talk down to.
That’s what you’re really hoping for- Yeah … right? Yeah. Like, I wanna have a conversation. We want, it’s like anything else, you want to explain. And don’t use jargon. And if they don’t wanna do a quarterly meeting, how about twice a year, okay? You get to do a meeting on December 1st and on June 1st, and we’re just gonna have a meeting.
We’re just gonna chit-chat about what it is. We’re just gonna go over everything. Once you get into the situation where you’re like, “Oh, wait a minute, we’re going to the advisor,” here’s my best advice. Shut up. Say nothing. Do not make this some soliloquy or sidebar conversation with the advisor. If you would like, you can talk to the [00:20:00] advisor ahead of time and say, “I just really need you to talk to my uninvolved spouse as if they were the only client, and I’m just gonna sit in the background, and that’s what I’m gonna do.”
That’s fabulous. And shut up.
Joe: Yes.
Jill: Shut up. And
Joe: I think it’s also important, Jill, because when I was an advisor, I had, you know, a time limit on my meeting. I wasn’t available forever. What was interesting, by the way, my clients didn’t know that I had a timer running. I had a playlist that was the same playlist in every meeting, so I could listen to the song that was playing in the background, and I knew where we were, so I could just focus on you without looking- Look at you
without looking at my watch. But the advisor has to have… You know, they have to run a business, so they only have so long. Absolutely. But I think, I think doing that at a home is important, too. My goal when I realized Cheryl, my spouse, wasn’t as involved as I had hoped and was creating the meeting that you’re talking about, I put a timer on it because I wanted to make it so that there was this thirst to have another one.
Mm. Not that we would run and run and run and run and… ‘Cause God, I could talk about this, and so could you all day. So if I set [00:21:00] that timer kind of short, it becomes like a, your favorite Netflix show, where you get done with one, and I wanted her to go, “Ooh, let’s do that meeting again,” you know? Yeah. “That was pretty fun.”
Jill: You know what’s great? If you treat this as, of course you’re gonna continue to be the one who’s responsible for it, but that everyone needs to know what the game plan is. So if I’m the third-string quarterback, I still have to know what the game plan is. I have to know how to run the plays. I’m probably not gonna get in the game.
I might, but I might not, but I have to be able to understand, what is my game plan? And you know, listen, we, you, you’ve, I’m sure you’ve seen all the crazy stories and the books written and Bell Burden about my husband, you know, pilfered all of my money and all this stuff. That’s not common. What is more common is not that, like, your spouse is stealing from you.
What’s more common is something happens to your spouse, and you are left at a period of time in your life when you are a complete emotional wreck, [00:22:00] not able to make decisions. And so having the at least base knowledge of what’s going on and what is happening and who are your people, who are your resources, having that team established I think is so important.
You know, Joe, I know that you also hear a ton from do-it-yourselfers, right?
Joe: Sure.
Jill: It’s like our, our people.
Joe: Right.
Jill: I always say to the do-it-yourselfer You’re happy doing it now. You’re 40 years old, you’re 30, 40, 50, maybe even 60 years old. But what happens if you cognitively cannot do it? Will you know when that time comes?
What happens if you were to drop dead? Should you have a relationship with a financial advisor who you could just talk to and have your spouse, if, especially if there’s an age disparity, we’ve had a couple of, like, interesting age differences that have come on the programs, and, and, you know, it’s like, well, get that person somebody that they can talk to-
Joe: Yeah
Jill: and have it ahead of time.
Joe: That’s fabulous. Knowing at least which levers to pull- [00:23:00] Exactly … is, is so important. I wanna take this the other way. Okay. Let’s say, and I love this when this happens, and I know you do, too, we get the person who’s listening to you and I right now because they realize they’re not involved- Mm-hmm
and they need to be more involved, and so they’re maybe listening to Stacking Benjamins on the sly, listening to Jill on the sly, whatever. Yeah. How do you re-engage with The Money Geek, and this, you know, happens a lot, too, without saying, “I don’t trust you”? Because if it’s you and I, Jill, and you’ve been handling the money forever- Yep
and I go, “Hey, Jill, um, what’s going on with this thing?” Your in- your initial reaction is gonna be you no longer trust me- Yes … which isn’t the case.
Jill: No. I-
Joe: It’s not the case …
Jill: I would say, “You know, I’ve been listening to Money Moves, I’ve been listening to Stacking Benjamins, ’cause I really wanna be a better partner to you, and I wanna really understand what’s going on,” because they raise this amazing issue, which is what happens if your involved partner drops [00:24:00] dead?
Come through the front door. It’s like the same way you talk to aging parents. You wanna try to, like, worm your way in to figure out what’s going on, what’s really happening, and the way you talk about it is you say, “My friend’s mother died, and the estate was such a mess, and it was so scary. Do you guys have that done?”
So it’s using either a real-life example or just saying, “I feel like I have not been carrying my weight. I want to be able to at least understand- Oh,
Joe: that’s
Jill: great … where the relationships are, what you’re doing, and I wanna be a better spouse to you. I wanna…” It’s like almost saying, like, someone says, “You’ve been doing the cooking the whole time,” right?
Do you watch The Bear, by the way?
Joe: Uh, yes. It’s so intense.
Jill: It’s so intense. By the way, I went back to watch Scallop, um, from Season 4. I encourage you to do that. Okay, there is a point in this show where, like, the master chef who has to do everything, right? It’s like, “I gotta do everything.” If you guys don’t watch, it’s awesome.
But then you realize if you actually empower someone else to be [00:25:00] part of this, it’s a richer experience. And so even if you’re the spouse who does all the cooking, you could say to your uninvolved spouse, “I love cooking. I want you to help me with a meal plan. I want you to help me with this,” or, “You’re gonna be the uninvolved spouse with cooking.
Uh, you’re gonna be the cleaner.” Fine, great. But, like, you know that in partnership you share responsibility, so it’s so odd to me that people completely just walk away from this part of their lives. So raise your hand, say you wanna be a better partner, because Jill and Joe, Uncle Joe and Jill, have actually taught you that you can be better.
By the way, Joe, what do you think when people are like, “Oh, I’m just bad at math”? I start laughing. Oh. I’m like, “Oh, my God.” I’m like, “Adding? Subtracting? Do you know how to do that?”
Joe: Well, and the bad news is, is it’s not about the math.
Jill: No. It’s half math and half art.
Joe: Yes.
Jill: And the art part is way more important.
Joe: A- and way more fun.
Jill: Yeah.
Joe: Way, [00:26:00] way, way more fun. Yeah. I think the takeaway today isn’t… Let’s talk about what it isn’t. It isn’t never trust anybody. No. It’s, it’s never outsource your understanding. You can absolutely delegate tasks. You can hire experts. You should lean on great advisors. You should divide responsibilities. But just make sure that you understand your financial life.
You know, Jill- Everybody that listens to Stacking Benjamins, well, maybe some people don’t. Your show, Jill on Money, has been, I’ve said this out loud so many times, my go-to place. It’s when I’m been out on my runs over the years, you’ve always been with me. When, uh, I just, I just, I find the way you tackle questions so fun and so interesting.
But I’d love it if you’d do something like we just did. Instead of, like, 20 minutes, if you could talk about stuff like this, but maybe instead of me, like, if there was a guy named Mark- … that you could do it with. Like, I think that would be perfect.
Jill: Oh, that’s a great idea for a show, and we’re doing [00:27:00] that.
It’s so- Really? … exciting.
Joe: Just for me?
Jill: Money Moves- … with Jill Schlesinger and Mark Taliercio. So, you know, by the way, Mark is mortified by all of this. And you know Mark. Mark is a behind-the-scenes kinda guy. But this is my… So for everyone who knows, like, I had this other show called Jill on Money, and Mark Taliercio was the executive producer of that show.
And then behind my back, he went and got his certified financial planner designation. And then- I remember
Joe: when he was starting that. It feels like yesterday, but that’s been a long time
Jill: he’s had it now. Yeah, it’s been a while. Yeah. So now when we launch this new show called Money Moves, it has been such a joy because I make Mark come on the camera with me.
And this is a show that is, it is a YouTube show. You can get it with your RSS feed. Of course, you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. But the whole point of that show that we were… Like, the other show, Jill on Money, was, like, people who had money, ha- were established, they wanted a place to kinda talk this through.
And now I really wanna focus this new show on the younger people who are [00:28:00] either starting out, or maybe they’re, like, mid-career and they really wanna talk about what’s going on in their financial lives, just like they do at Stacking Benjamins. Come on the program with us, talk to us. And then also we have a f- fun feature.
Joe, you’ll be so into it. It’s called the TikTok Takedown- Oh my God … where we take, we take a social media clip, and we kind of demystify it. We kind of rip it apart. And sometimes… Listen, the… You know there are some people who are decent out there, but there are a lot of people who are not licensed, not registered, putting stuff out on social media, whether it’s Reels or TikTok, that is nonsense.
Can I tell you one of my favorite recent ones? You’ll love this.
Joe: Tell me yours, and I got one for you, Jill.
Jill: All right. Well, this was one where it was, uh, somebody who said, “You know, rich people don’t pay down their mortgage.” So I was like, “Okay, I’m, I’m, I’m good with that.” What rich people do is they borrow against their investment accounts, and they buy rental property Basically, [00:29:00] this advice was to margin your investment account and buy one, two, three, four, five rental properties.
What could possibly go wrong? Do they ever talk about, like, what happens when the market drops? Do they ever talk about how being a landlord is not the easiest thing in the world? Do they ever talk about anything that has to do with the downside risk? No. So that was something where I was like, “Wait, what?”
It was just shocking. Mark wants to try to get some sort of antacid or blood pressure- … medication, a pharmaceutical company to sponsor it, ’cause he g- he’s like, it blows his mind every time. It’ll
Joe: be great. Pepto-Bismol brings-
Jill: Come on, Pepcid, let’s go. I, I, I want Pepto-Bismol- Tums … Pepcid, Tums, uh, Alka-Seltzer.
Come on.
Joe: It’s the perfect opportunity. Exactly. No, uh, uh, my favorite TikTok clip might be One where a guy said, you know, you can pay for breakfast or you could save that money. And he did the math on how much money you’d [00:30:00] save by going in the back door of the local Courtyard by Marriott- Mm … and stealing breakfast- Oh
pretty much. Walking in and having breakfast on them, and then take the money you would’ve spent on breakfast and invest that money. So Jill, just steal your way to success.
Jill: It works. Sure. Sure. You know, it’s what’s funny about that is that particular type of financial, personal finance stuff, you know I hate that.
Like, that whole idea of like, “Don’t drink a latte and you’re gonna be a millionaire,” because it’s so- it’s nonsensical. Right? You have to live your life. I’ve never been a finger-wagger, like, “Don’t do this. Don’t spend your…” I think, like, don’t do things that are really bad for you, and do be aware of, like, choosing to spend your money in a very specific way.
But we had a question that came up on, on Money Moves where someone’s like, “Should I spend the money to go to the World Cup or not?” And I’m like, yes. Events, you’re not going into debt to do it. You’re spending some of the money you have in savings and you’re gonna have s- do, like, something fun. You’re gonna go see Taylor Swift.
You’re gonna go see the Knicks [00:31:00] play basketball. Like, yeah, go do that. Don’t go into debt to do that. Don’t deplete your emergency reserve fund, but what is life? Are you living like a miser? I can’t… I, uh… You know me, I hate the whole fire movement because I’m like, “That’s not realistic. That’s not how normal human beings wanna live.”
Joe: Yeah. Uh, not a big fan of, uh, deprivation.
Jill: No. I mean, like, I like fire for the idea of, like, financial independence.
Joe: Sure.
Jill: But, like, retire early? Like, uh, I don’t know. Your life’s gonna change quite a bit. Good luck.
Joe: Well, and just the fact that there’s… And we could talk about this all day, but just the fact that m- my life isn’t unicorns and rainbows now, but somehow it is gonna be in the future.
I think that no matter where you are, you show up, you
Jill: know? Yes. Yeah, and, and enjoy yourself. I mean, deprivation… That’s what I think is funny about, like, when someone’s talked to me about being a financial planner, they’re like, “Oh, you wouldn’t tell me to spend money this way.” I said, “I never told somebody not to spend money on the thing they wanna do.”
I
Joe: told people- That’s what’s surprising about the field, I think, about how the good financial planners are like, “No, it’s just a balance.”
Jill: Exactly. And also- You
Joe: gotta do it [00:32:00] today … uh,
Jill: the thing that a financial planner might do is say, “Hmm, that is a big jump in a house for you. Like, you live in a $300,000 house, and now you’re buying a million dollar house.
Let’s run the numbers to see if that can work. And if you desperately wanna do it even if the numbers don’t work, let’s figure out the way that we can get you there, or as close to there as possible.” Right. And that’s the beauty of working with an, a planner. I mean, not that I wanna be in the business anymore- I think that being around a bunch of financial planners over the last couple of days has been a really wonderful reminder to me, like, just how valuable that relationship can be when it’s a good planner.
If it’s, like, a crappo salesperson or a wirehouse person who’s just selling you, like, “I’m gonna manage your money but not do planning for you,” then yeah, no, that don’t- I don’t think that’s the greatest thing in the world.
Joe: And have you seen the numbers too, Jill? We need more women in the field.
Jill: Oh my- I got
Joe: this- We need more people of color in the field.
Jill: Yeah, that CFP report was bad. That was bad, dude. It was, like, the same 23 or 24, 25% of women, the same, like, less than [00:33:00] 10% of people of color. It’s just- it’s bad.
Joe: And even, listen, for old white guys, there’s still not enough. I mean, we just need more people in the field, no matter who you are.
Jill: I have, like, a thesis about that.
Part of the challenge of the profession is that it requires people to be a salesperson, and so I think a- that, that if you’re the kind of, like, number-crunchy do-gooder type who would wanna be a financial planner, then the idea of, like, “Oh my God, I have to go get business,” like, that freaks me out. But when you turn it around and say- Yes, it is sales, of course, but you are selling something that people need and want.
100%. So it’s not like you’re selling them an indexed universal life insurance product. You’re not. And you are trying to help them manage where they wanna go in their lives. What a gift that you could bring to someone’s life.
Joe: Yeah. When I realized two things, Jill, I got really good at marketing my business.
Number one was that I’m not trying to sell you something that you don’t want, so [00:34:00] I don’t need to shove this down people’s throat. If you’re not interested in your own financial security, I can’t help you.
OG: Right.
Joe: But if you are interested in your financial security and you want somebody to help you go faster, then yeah.
And when I started presenting myself that way versus, hey, come buy stuff from me or come, you know, whatever, like I was intruding on people. Mm. I’m just a guy who helps you go faster. If you don’t think that you need to go faster, then I’m not for you. And there were plenty of people. All of a sudden, I was attractive to people.
Jill: Right.
Joe: But also, life is sales. I had to sell you big time on coming on Stacking Benjamins. Jill was like, “No, I’m not coming.” Oh, stop
Jill: it.
Joe: You’re ridiculous. “I would never
Jill: go
Joe: on that show.”
Jill: Didn’t I blurb something for you? Didn’t we do something fun? You did. I was… I mean, come on. I love this guy.
Joe: You did. You’re in my book.
I mean, you’ve done
Jill: so much for us. It’s a brilliant thing. We’re… It’s like also like we are like-minded people. But also because we came from industry, it’s a very distinctive way. It’s like you came, you understand the industry, but you’re not, like, out there selling something. I mean, a book here and there, sure.
I think [00:35:00] that the misconception about what it is to get financial advice and how you can have that really help you in your life is about like, oh, it’s just for rich people. Now, I’m not saying that the industry does a great job of managing the process for people who have, say, less than a half a million dollars.
Yeah. I do think that that’s a tough sell. But I am encouraged, ’cause I do think that if we can use AI in a smarter way, if we really get good at that, or that is somehow that, that these big financial service companies or big f- financial planning firms can somehow have a lower… A, a different level of service.
If you have fewer than, if you have less than a certain amount of money than our minimum, you can use our proprietary, safe- AI modeling where we will have somebody meet with you once a year to review it or twice a year. If there’s some way to bring people in who really do need financial guidance in a safe way using AI, I think that could be cool.
I really do. I think that would, could be [00:36:00] a game changer in the industry, and I hope that there is a development around that. But you’re right, we need more planners, we need smarter people, we need empaths to come into the industry. Instead of going to be a shrink, come and be a financial planner. Because you know what I found?
The greatest thing in the world is, like, if you’re a voyeur, which basically Joe and I are, and so are shrinks, you love people. In financial planning, you get to tell them what to do. You do. When you’re a shrink, you have to get them to come to the conclusion. And-
Joe: And you get to see the inside of everybody’s wallet.
Jill: Right?
Joe: And, and- And realize we’re all asking the same questions that we think are embarrassing.
Jill: Exactly. There was a funny survey out, I think it was, like, Credit Karma. It was like, “Why do you use AI?” And, like, three-quarters of the people are like, “I’m too embarrassed to ask these questions.”
Joe: Wow. That’s so sad.
Jill: I
Joe: know. But it is great. There are, to your point, there are so many opportunities. But opportunity number one, Stackers, is if you’ve got a non-involved person in your family- Mm … take Jill’s advice today and get on it. And then number two is [00:37:00] pause the show right here and go subscribe to the new show.
Jill: Money Moves.
You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or check us out on YouTube, because of course, Joe, this is the funniest thing, the most common feedback that I’ve gotten from people is, “Oh, Mark is so much more handsome than I thought.” Is that the best? Mark is a
Joe: handsome dude.
Jill: Well, because he’s sort of a curmudgeon, gang.
And he’s like, he’s in his 40s, but he sounds like an old Italian grandmother sometimes. He’s very cranky. And so people are like, “He’s in his 40s and he has a full head of hair? Like, that’s crazy.” Wait,
Joe: what?
Jill: Yeah. So Money Moves wherever you get your podcasts, but importantly also on YouTube so you can go check out how cute Mark is.
He’s married, sorry guys.
Joe: He’s not available, but, but you-
Jill: Unavailable …
Joe: but you can still look.
Jill: But I think it’s fun because I think his wife’s like, “Really? That’s what they think?” As only a spouse can tell you and keeping it real.
Joe: We’ll link to the Money Moves YouTube page, to the podcast page on our show notes, [00:38:00] stackingbenjamins.com in the show notes here, wherever you’re getting your podcast.
Guys, we’re gonna throw this over to Doug, who’s got a very… Jill, he’s got a very interesting trivia question today. And in the second half of today’s episode, Kristy Talarico’s gonna join us. You know, Jill, a great place where I just read this survey that shows that so many people do so much better when they go to these workplace lunch and learns where the- Oh, really?
The, the, the… and they dive into workplace help.
Jill: Mm.
Joe: But nobody goes. I know. Nobody
Jill: goes. Those benefits are all wasted. I mean, it must make… Uh, corporate America goes, like, freaks out about it. Use your benefits, gang.
Joe: Well, Kristy Talarico is going to talk about why those don’t work, and how to get more out of them.
So Doug, you’ve got it, man. Take it from here.
Doug: Hey there, Stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and I love Joe and Jill’s conversation about why it’s okay to delegate your investing. Just don’t delegate your understanding, which also explains why Mom no longer [00:39:00] lets me handle anything important. I used to say, “Don’t worry, Mom, I got this.” Turns out that’s exactly what she was worried about.
And here comes Christie Talarico joining us to talk about workplace benefits that can make employees happier and less stressed. I’d settle for the basement finally getting dental coverage. Maybe you can talk about that. No? No, they’re shaking their heads no. Can’t talk about that. Speaking of understanding how things work, on this day in 1938, one of the most famous car companies in the world was founded.
Most of us have heard the name our entire lives, but very few people actually know what it means. So today’s trivia question is this: What does the name Volkswagen literally mean in English? And no Googling on your phone. Mom already confiscated my phone after I tried to expense pizza as continuing education.
I’ll be back with the answer right after I convince Mom that my El Camino is technically a medical expense because, you know, emotionally it supports me.
bumper: Looking for the answer and correct spelling. Old [00:40:00] MacDonald had a what? Farm. E-I-E-I-O.
Doug: Hey there, Stackers. I’m automotive historian and guy who still thinks the check engine light is more of a suggestion, Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Before the break, I asked you what the name Volkswagen literally means in English. I love this question because it’s exactly what Jill Schlesinger was talking about earlier.
Most of us know the name, millions of people have driven one, but very few people ever stop to ask what it actually means, and that’s true with money, too. A lot of us know the names 401, Roth IRA, HSA, target date fund, but if you don’t understand what they are or why they work, it’s really easy to hand the steering wheel to somebody else and hope they’re driving in the right direction.
So whether it’s your retirement plan, your benefits package, or even the car parked in your driveway, it pays to stay curious. So what’s the answer? Volkswagen [00:41:00] literally means the people’s car. And now back to the people’s host and his guest. Here comes Joe and special guest, Christy Talarico
Joe: Well, maybe the bills are piling up.
Maybe you’re skipping the doctor because of the co-pay. Maybe you’re laying awake calculating which payment can wait. I’ve been there. You still go to work, you still answer your emails, and from the outside you look fine, but your body might be telling a different story. Today we’re not beginning with investment returns, we’re not talking retirement projections.
We’re starting the second half of the show here with a more urgent question. When financial stress starts affecting your sleep, your health, your relationships, or your ability to function, what should you actually do next? Christy Talarico works with employers and working families confronting exactly those problems.
Christy, so happy you’re here. Welcome to Mom’s Basement.
Kristy: Thanks, Joe. It’s good to be here. And I can definitely relate to that position of laying awake at night [00:42:00] thinking about, worrying about money always on your mind.
Joe: Oh my goodness. And I’m sure we’ll get into your company, what your company does later in the interview, but you talk to people all the time that are facing these same uncertainties.
I remember this. This is the mid-’90s for me, laying awake and just going, “How am I gonna even face tomorrow?” But before we get to any of that, I just gotta ask you a personal question. Having the name Christy Talarico meant nothing- … like, three months ago, and now, like, everybody in Texas and half the people in the United States are like, “Is she related?”
Your name’s not even spelled the same as the guy running for the Senate.
Kristy: No, it’s not. It’s not spelled the same. We are not related in any way, but, you know, best of luck to him and his campaign.
Joe: To your cousin. To your new, to your new cousin.
Kristy: It’s interesting how time evolves, because I used to be asked if I was related to Steven Tyler from Aerosmith, and now- Oh, that’s funny
now I’m getting James instead. So it’s interesting.
Joe: Is Steven Tyler’s real name Talarico?
Kristy: It is. Is it? Also not spelled the same, but [00:43:00] yes.
Joe: I did not know that. How about that? Yeah. That is wild. Yeah. It’s funny, so your name goes through boring periods and then through exciting periods.
Kristy: Yeah.
Joe: All right. Let’s get to business here, because we do have people that are listening, we got some stackers I’m sure that are in this situation, or they know people that are in this situation. What if our stacker’s feeling completely overwhelmed, Christy? The rent’s late, credit card’s maxed out, car needs work.
The advice they keep hearing- at work is, “Hey, start investing in your 401allen.” Yes. Where, where should that person begin instead?
Kristy: Why is that a thing? Yes, you’re absolutely right. What we have found in our research via the Financial Health Network is that almost 70% of Americans are either financially coping or financially vulnerable.
And we also know from the same source that 53% of working Americans have less than $500 in emergency savings. And these are people working full time. These are not people who are sitting home in front of the [00:44:00] TV. Like, they are doing their jobs and trying to provide for themselves and their families. But what we find in the workplace is that, you know, your 401and your financial wellness solutions and the AI chatbot that will talk to you on demand for baked questions or the webinars that educate people, they are financial wellness solutions because they’re designed for people who are already financially well, and they’re not utilized by people who need to be met where they are today, that need liquidity to get to tomorrow.
They’re not thinking about 30 years in the future.
Joe: Yeah, I remember back in my old career as a financial planner, the way I built my business was going into companies, and I would help people set up their 401stuff. And then because we hadn’t solved the root of the problem, Kristy, the same people a month later are borrowing all the money they put in.
Kristy: Yep, exactly. Borrowing out of their 401, applying for company hardship programs, wage garnishments, payday loans, you know, predatory loan places. But to answer your question most directly, those people have a much more complicated [00:45:00] journey today.
Joe: Yeah. Let’s not solve HR first. Let’s help our stacker solve their problem.
What’s the first problem to solve? Clearly, you say it’s not putting money in the 401. Is it whichever bill carries the greatest immediate consequence? Is it which one keeps me housed? Is it food? Is it utilities? Like, where do I begin?
Kristy: Yeah. I would say if I answered you statistically, based on our business, we find that over half of our clients come to us for the first time with housing insecurity.
That’s the first thing. So I think the answer to, to your question is the most urgent goal that needs to be met because every financial problem comes down to something that needs to be accomplished, and sometimes that’s keeping a roof over your head or feeding yourself and your family, and sometimes it’s more complicated than that.
Sometimes it’s making the choice between paying the utility bill or fixing the car so you can keep physically going to work and making that paycheck.
Joe: I never got to the point that I had housing insecurity, but I did wonder what I was gonna do tomorrow and how I was gonna keep the ship afloat the next week.
[00:46:00] Maybe then people are able to guarantee they have housing for the next week or the next month. But as you know, that only is duct tape. I remember thinking, Kristy, “How do I get ahead of this game so this doesn’t happen again?” Like, where do I start if I’m trying to get over that hump so that I’m not worried about tomorrow, I can worry about three days from now instead?
Kristy: Right. Yeah, this is true. There are a host of resources, and it’s one of the things that our company provides is financial care navigation for people in those situations. So you can look at your employer’s benefit ecosystem and see what tie-ins there are that can help solve a financial problem. For example, when we have people who are escaping domestic violence situations, part of that benefit ecosystem is an EAP with mental health counseling.
Very necessary, of course.
Joe: For people that don’t know what EAP stands for, what is that?
Kristy: An EAP is an employee assistance program that many large-scale employers have in place that can provide things like legal [00:47:00] counseling or mental health counseling.
Joe: Oh, cool. Okay.
Kristy: And then an additional layer to that, outside of an employer ecosystem, sits in what are local resources that are available.
Depending on where you live, there could be local government hardship grants that you could be applying for. If you need to fix your car, there could be a local trade school that has students learning how to fix cars and therefore deeply discounting the cost of repairs. There could be women’s shelters for housing.
There could be food banks. There could be United Way chapters. There’s a myriad of different things. The problem is someone who is so overwhelmed and has these perpetually raised cortisol levels ’cause they’re obsessively worried about money, it’s overwhelming. It’s a lot. So it comes down to getting them help.
Joe: If people are gonna ask for help, I know the first thing that any of these institutions are going to do. Sadly, they’re going to make you prove it, right, that you need help. So before I ask for help, what do I gather? Do I gather my bills, my pay stubs, my benefit information, my eviction shut-off notices?
Like, what evidence [00:48:00] are people gonna ask for that will let me get the help that I need?
Kristy: So if you are working with an employer that has our financial care benefit available, the only thing that you need to do is download our app and enter your first and last name and your date of birth and the last four digits of your Social Security number, and that’s the only eligibility check that we need to do to ensure that you’re an employee of the company that we’re working with.
So that’s very simple. And then once that happens, you’re very quickly connected with a financial care assistant and telling them what your problem is. And usually we get greeted with, “I need a loan to meet this goal,” and we start the conversation there. And what we usually do is put a pause on that and start digging down into what is the root cause of that need and then work on solving it.
Joe: Right. And we should talk about the name of your company, too. It’s, uh, Brightside Financial. We’ll dig into exactly what you guys do. But let’s say they don’t have access to Brightside, Kristy. I know every local institution’s gonna be a little different, but there’s gotta be some things that would be best for our average [00:49:00] stacker to put in front of whoever these officials are.
Kristy: I think an average stacker, if they need to give themself help quickly, can start with a place called Find Help, which is a navigation portal where they can plug in their ZIP code and a little bit about their need and receive a list of options that is kinda curated to what they’re telling them that they need.
If it’s a financial problem, if it is needing a loan, whatever it is, that can help them in the short term. And, you know, I know we’ll talk about kind of the employer benefit option. In the longer term in terms of proof, I don’t know so much about proof, right? I think with 70% of the working country being financially vulnerable, this is a very popular conversation, and coming as you are to whatever your resource is, is the first thing that you have to do.
Joe: I like that. Just don’t worry about all this stuff, just go get help.
Kristy: Just go get help. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And navigate one question at a time. I think if people get in their heads, “Okay, well, I have to bring my utility bill and all of my paperwork around my lease and all of my ID,” like, it could be too [00:50:00] overwhelming too quickly.
G- go to that first place to go get that first layer of help, and then just take it one question at a time, one step at a time.
Joe: Yeah, don’t try to eat the whole elephant. It’s interesting you said the average person that you guys work with comes and they go, “I need a loan.” It is funny because I used to speak to high schoolers a lot.
I went into this local high school, and I was a resource a few times a year, and they would always… I’d always do Q&A. And every single question, not every single one, I’d say 99% of questions, Christie, were, “How do I get into debt over my head?” Like They didn’t ask it that way, but this high school junior goes- Right
“How do I get a loan for a truck? How do I get a mortgage? How do I get a credit card? How do I get a…” Every question was a form of debt. There were very few questions about saving, and this is how ingrained this is in our culture, right? “I just need a loan.” And I remember when I felt that too, I was like, “I don’t care how I pay it back.
I can’t think about how I’m gonna pay it back. If I just get access to capital, then I can [00:51:00] think for the next six weeks, and hopefully in the next six weeks I’ll figure out some way to get that done.” You said that you often put that on hold, which I think is really cool because the first place I’ve seen people go is, like, a payday loan, a cash advance, a high-cost installment loan, a new credit card.
Something that’s gonna help you just dig the hole faster, right?
Kristy: Yes. You’ll be deeper in the hole. How do you put a pause on that?
Joe: Well, what do you do when you pause it? What are you guys doing instead if you’re putting a pause?
Kristy: Well, can I tell you a quick story?
Joe: No, let’s do it.
Kristy: All right. So, uh, let me tell you a little bit about Daisy.
So Daisy was one of our clients, and she reached out to us via the app, and she greeted us in the same way that many of our clients greet us. “Hey, I need a loan. I need $1,800.” That’s it. Not hello. “I need, I need an $1,800 loan.”
OG: Right.
Kristy: So our financial assistant said, “Okay,” you know, “First thing, understood. I heard you.
I hear you that you need $1,800. Positive reinforcement, I think it’s great that you’re looking for help, and emphasis on I’m going to help you reach your goal.” The [00:52:00] practice is called hope science. Build a belief in this human being that they’re gonna get to where they need to go. Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions?
And through a series of leading questions that people with good therapeutic backgrounds can do, teased out that Daisy had fled an abusive relationship, lacked family resources, did not have a place to sleep that night, and that eighteen hundred dollars was a loan for a security deposit on an apartment so that she can have permanent housing.
So the FA that was helping her navigate this situation said, “Okay, we don’t need eighteen hundred dollars yet. We need a roof over your head. We need food in your belly. Let’s start there.” And found her, again, through local hardship resources, found her a women’s shelter. She was able to– She had a bed for several nights, was able to get her meals from a local organization.
Okay, now she’s fed, she’s housed, she’s dry, she’s clean, she’s slept. Now let’s concentrate on your new apartment and how do we get you money for that? And it would be very easy to connect her with, you know, here’s a loan from a company like a Cashable and say, “Okay, now we’re done.” But instead, [00:53:00] this financial assistant helped her navigate her own employer ecosystem and found that her own employer had a hardship program that she could apply for.
And she applied for it, got approved, and was given, not loaned, given $1,800. And she was able to use that free money that she does not have to pay back to get a permanent roof over her head. That’s an example.
Joe: That’s fabulous, and it’s wild how one emergency spreads into all of these other issues, and by going right to the root of the problem versus another 1,800 bucks, and by going into all the existing resources, you’re able to come up with a much better solution.
Kristy: Exactly.
Joe: This is where generic financial advice, I think often fails so much. Like, how was the person able to identify all these different places where she could get money when other programs aren’t able to do that?
Kristy: This is a great question. I think part of it is when you’re a working American and you work for a large employer that offers financial [00:54:00] wellness solutions, those financial wellness solutions are usually administered by companies who typically are curated for people who are financially healthy.
So Fidelity, for, as an example, might be in charge of your 401and makes financial advisors available to you for phone calls, X many sessions or conversations per year so that you can plan, which is great for somebody- Yeah … who has money. Sure, right. But just like you and I did not learn how to balance a checkbook in school, and everything that you said about the individuals because they don’t know what a healthy income to debt ratio looks like, starts every conversation with, “I need the thing.
How do I get the thing?” Without a total awareness of the financial hole that it digs a person, because most of us don’t grow up learning what healthy income to debt ratio looks like. So those same CFPs, those same financial advisors, they’re used to talking to affluent people who can plan 30 years in the future, and therefore lack the advice of someone who has nothing.
After their bills are paid, there’s $5 left [00:55:00] in their checking account, and they’ve got 10,000 or more in debt. They can’t help them because you don’t wanna plan 30 years in the future. You can’t contribute to your 401. You, you’re borrowing from your 401. So those people wind up getting left behind.
Joe: I think this is an important point too for our Stackers because I know meeting people around the country, Christie, that we have such a giving community and people that wanna help more people get financially literate, and yet we’re used to talking to people about being in the 401or putting money in a savings account.
And there’s all these underlying things that the person you’re talking to probably will never tell you. They’re way too embarrassed to tell you. They’re way too emotional about it. They’re putting on the best front that they can, and I can say that with a lot of confidence ’cause that was me. I would look you in the eye and everything was A-okay, and nothing was okay.
Like, absolutely nothing was okay.
Kristy: Imagine if you were in a place where a conversation with a financial advisor would start with things like, “Let’s talk about how many subscriptions you pay a monthly fee for. Are you using all of [00:56:00] them?” Or, “Okay, how much is your monthly grocery bill, and what is that made up of, and are there ways to save there?”
Or, “What is your air conditioning usage, and are you ready, are you prepared for the spike in your electric bill that’s going to come come May and last through likely October, depending on where you live?” And those conversations are the basics of managing a monthly budget, but they get passed over because it, it’s centered instead on, “Let’s plan for your retirement 30 years in the future and all the money that you’re gonna put away towards it.”
Joe: Yeah.
Kristy: So it’s just two different constructs.
Joe: 100%.
Kristy: And therefore two different paths.
Joe: Well, actually, hopefully one leads to the next, right? I mean, hopefully people get to the point where they’re talking about the long-term stuff, where they’re through those hurdles. Which is why I think we just need a lot more education about the difference between a financial coach, which a lot of people need.
When I was a financial planner, people would come to me and I would end up doing financial coaching with them, more because I liked them. I couldn’t really make any money. It’s not the way financial planning operations are set up, [00:57:00] but it was because of the fact that I wanted to see this person succeed.
But now there’s a whole industry, as, well, you guys are a part of, of financial coaching to help people get on their feet and get things moving. I wanna talk about that, though, getting things moving, because while I love the Daisy story and about how she avoids the $1,800 loan, she now gets $1,800, which gives her the breathing room, but now she’s got to do something with it.
What’s the next step, then, for Daisy? How were you guys able to help Daisy beyond that, then, to maybe, I don’t know if it’s set up a budget, get rid of income insecurity, whatever the next steps might be?
Kristy: That’s a great question. Thank you so much for asking. So after we’re done helping Daisy solve that first problem, it would be very easy to say, “Okay, you’ve got a permanent apartment.
You’re safe, you’re housed, you’ve got food. Okay, nice to meet you,” right? It would be very easy to just kind of let it go. But I think the value of our financial assistance and a big differentiator is that we don’t go away. Daisy’s FA called her back to the table, and because she had built [00:58:00] so much credibility by helping getting her temporary and then permanent housing, she was able to ask the tough question, and that was, “Hey, Daisy, because you link your credit report with us through your app, I can see that you have $40,000 in credit card debt across 10 accounts.
Can you tell me, does that feel overwhelming for you? Would you be interested in figuring out a way together and let’s looking at some options that we can get that paid down and paid off and make it stop and just end it?” And, you know, this is now a person that Daisy trusts, and the FA had to work for that trust, but now that the trust was built, Daisy says, “Of course, I would love that help.
That’s fantastic.”
Joe: I was gonna say if I were Daisy, I’d be… I would… Am I interested? Are you kidding me? Like, who wouldn’t be?
Kristy: Right, exactly. I’m over the moon. Yes, absolutely. It’s like when someone walks into a therapist’s office for the first time. You walked in. You know you need help. You know you’re there for a reason.
You’re not gonna spill all the skeletons out of your closet at once. This has to be one conversation at a time, one data point at a time, little bits of credibility-building at a time. So once we get to that point of [00:59:00] trust, it’s almost like anything is possible
Joe: I wanna focus on something else too, because there’s been a lot of discussion lately around AI.
We’ve talked about AI a lot on the show. But the fact that this was a real person helping her, from my standpoint, from the outside looking in, Kristy, has huge advantages, just this caring that an individual person can do. Like, you know, AI talks to me all the time like, “Hey, Joe, you’re great. That was a great prompt.
My God, are you smart. We should do more smart stuff that you do every…” It’s great, but I also know that it’s a little disingenuous. But when a human being says, “You know what? You can make this happen,” I feel like there’s power in this human connection as well, Kristy.
Kristy: Yeah. There absolutely is. It’s funny, when I talk to FAs, we shadow them all the time, and every HR exec I speak to asks the same question: “Is that a human being?”
I’m like, “Yes, that’s a human being. That is not a bot.” And every FA says when they’ve built relationships with their client, they say, like, “We’re at the point where it’s a friendship. It’s li- it’s almost like an angel on the shoulder helping you make good decisions, and then helping you take that first step, and then the next step, and then the next step, and [01:00:00] keeping you motivated with positive reinforcement and an emphasis on the belief that there is a solve to your problem, that there’s a resolution at the end of this road, so let’s walk down it together.”
Joe: You know, often when it comes to money problems, we think, “Oh, Kristy’s making great points. Man, maybe I should get help, but I’m gonna work on this another month, another two months, another three months by myself and see if I can solve it myself.” I used to go to this church, and the woman leading the church had this great sermon, one of my favorite sermons of all time, Kristy, which was, “I’m gonna give it to God as soon as I finish it up myself.”
But I’m gonna make sure it’s c- it’s completely buried. When you and I were chatting about this before, you talked about the human toll, like seriously the physical toll, and we even mentioned it at the top of the show. Let’s talk a little bit about the physical problems that this creates when you’re dealing with all this financial stress.
Kristy: Yeah. I mean, so listen, I’m sure that all of your stackers can relate to the [01:01:00] being in the position of living with financial insecurity. We call it living with financial illness, and when you are living with financial illness, there is a massive tie to mental health and physical health being strung together, and financial health almost sits at the bottom of that.
If you are not financially healthy, you are suffering from anxiety and depression, definitely. And if you are financially unhealthy, your cortisol levels are perpetually raised. And any stacker who listens to this and remembers and knows what it feels like to be obsessively thinking about money all day, every day, every waking moment, feels anxious all the time.
And the Mayo Clinic just released a study in February of this year of two hundred and eighty thousand adults, and they found that financial strain is as bad for the heart as smoking. So now we have learned through the Mayo Clinic that perpetually raised cortisol levels causes premature cardiac aging.
So now we know, okay, financial stress actually can make you sick. It is making you sick, [01:02:00] and it’s just another incentive to try to find a way to solve it.
Joe: It’s wild, the feedback loop here. Money, stress damages your health, health problems create missed work, co-pays, prescriptions, additional bills. It’s tough to get out in front of that cycle.
Kristy: Right. Exactly. So think about it from a company standpoint. So now you are a large employer, you’re in the Fortune 1000, and you have thousands of people that work for your company. If we assume that 70% of them are financially unhealthy in some way, we are creating workforce outcomes through this problem that impact absenteeism, presenteeism, meaning that you’re physically at work but you’re not concentrating at work, creating safety incident issues.
Accidents happen due to lack of focus, LOAs, sick days, and yes, as you mentioned, healthcare claim and costs. The list goes on and on.
Joe: We did a show a few weeks ago about 401plans and the Roth component, and we asked the question about if they don’t have the Roth component, what do you [01:03:00] do? And OG, my co-host, said, “Talk to your HR team.
Talk to your HR team. Your HR team wants to hear from you. They wanna hear, ‘Hey, we really want the Roth component.'” What’s interesting about that, Christie, and I’m gonna tie it into what you guys do here in a second, is that the outpouring that I got after that show of HR professionals going, “Yes, tell us what you want.
Tell us what you will use. Please, please, please, please, because we get zero feedback from the people that work for us, and if you gave us more feedback, we could create programs to help you with this.” Brightside interacts with your employer, and it could be something that your employer works with already, or if they don’t, it’s the kinda thing that you could go talk to your employer about.
So let’s talk specifically about Brightside. How does it work? How do you guys work, and how do you interface with an existing HR program that already has a slate of benefits?
Kristy: Sure. Thank you for that. So Daisy’s story was a great [01:04:00] example of what happens in the day-to-day if your employer is partnered with Brightside.
We are a financial care benefit, not a financial wellness benefit, because our first priority are people who are not financially well. And we sell the benefit to employers, who then provide it as a free benefit to employees. And what it is is an app that is paired with unlimited access to a financial assistant that you build a relationship with, a human, and instead of them being a CFP or having their series 7, in many cases they have a social worker background or a teacher background or a nurse background, patient care associates.
Think people who have professional experience motivating someone to do something hard that they don’t wanna do that is good for them And through that relationship, we solve for people one financial problem at a time until they are building their own emergency savings, paying off their 401loan and not taking out another one, and starting to live a financially healthy life to the point where they don’t need us [01:05:00] anymore.
And they get unlimited access for that. So Daisy was able to get a temporary home, get a permanent home, work through $40,000 in credit card debt, and she didn’t pay for any of those services because her employer provided that benefit. And the great thing is she can do it with 100% trust because we don’t monetize a single choice that any employee makes.
If they do wind up with a loan, because we have a saying around here, “Better to be in debt with a roof over your head than the other way around.” So fine. So if an employee does wind up with a loan or a referral to one of our partners, we don’t make any money on any choice. We don’t monetize employee choices.
We are only incented to make sure that the client is helped and the right thing is done by them.
Joe: And if somebody wants to bring this to their HR pro, the website is?
Kristy: Website is gobrightside.com.
Joe: Awesome. And if you’re walking the dog, Stackers, or you’re, you’re on a commute, we’ve got your back. It’ll be in the show notes page at stackingbenjamins.com.
Christie Talarico. I have to laugh ’cause I… [01:06:00] Now, it’s funny, when we met, there was no association with Talarico. Now I say Talarico and…
Kristy: And you just got James on the brain.
Joe: Yeah. You know it’s triggering one way or another for everybody, no matter what. You get people like, “Yay or nay.” I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, but…
Kristy: I mean, we are progressive, for what that’s worth.
Joe: Employee wellness. Well, let’s get it… I think we can get bipartisan around financial health. I think we all get excited about that.
Kristy: Absolutely. I don’t think there’s a single person who does not feel like it’s important to be able to comfortably house and feed their families and provide generational health for their family’s future. That’s one thing that absolutely everyone can agree on.
bumper: Hi, I’m Mitchell Walker, and when I’m not teaching people how to find hidden money, I’m out stacking Benjamins.
Joe: Big thanks to Jill and Kristy, and thanks to you, OG, for, uh, just sitting quietly in the corner.
OG: Happy [01:07:00] to keep doing that for the rest of the day.
Joe: It was great. Well, y- you have the opportunity right now, ’cause I’m just gonna go to Doug. Doug, what should we have learned on today’s show?
Doug: So what’s stacked up on our to-do list for today?
First, take some advice from Jill Schlesinger. Delegating tasks, great. Deciding to not learn how your money works, money is too much of a fuel for the rest of your life not to know. Second, benefits packages? Take some advice from Kristy Talarico. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, maybe there’s more going on than you not understanding your 401.
But the big lesson, just because they call it the People’s Car doesn’t mean it belongs to all the people. Apparently that’s why Joe’s mom got a little bent when I borrowed her keys. Who knew? Hey, Ma, mega superstar announcers are people too. Take it easy on me.
Thanks to Jill Schlesinger for joining us today. You’ll find her new podcast, Money Moves, wherever you’re listening to us [01:08:00] now. We’ll also include links in our show notes at stackingbenjamins.com. Thanks also to Kristy Talarico for joining us today. Run benefits for your company? Check out Brightside. Head to gobrightside.com for details.
And you know what? I’ll also have my people put that on the show notes as well. You’re welcome. Coming up on tomorrow’s show during this special five-day extravaganza, you get statements that say Fidelity Investments, but do you know about the history of that company? We’re joined by Wall Street Journal special reporter Justin Bear, who shares the secretive family behind the big brand and how Fidelity made their mark.
This show is the property of SB Podcast LLC, copyright 2026, and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy. You’ll find out about our awesome team at stackingbenjamins.com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social [01:09:00] media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know.
This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and we’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamins show.
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