Happy Independence Day, Stackers! While fireworks boom and flags wave, we’re lighting a spark under your financial life. This episode isn’t about tea in harbors—it’s about burning down debt, revolting against lifestyle creep, and rallying your family for a better money future.
Joining Joe and Doug in the basement for this full-on financial insurrection:
- Dorethia Kelly, TikTok titan and money coach, shares how she raised her financial flag as a single mom and became a force for smart money choices.
- Jesse Cramer of the Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors podcast ditches tired spending habits and charts a course for independence through intentional investing and budgeting.
- Steve Stewart, longtime SB editor and podcasting Yoda, reveals the pivotal Jeep moment that changed his financial course—and why he’s racing OG to mortgage freedom.
🎙️ In this basement-based revolution, you’ll hear:
- The financial “tea party” moments that woke our guests up to their money mess
- How to declare independence from credit cards, lifestyle creep, and sneaky “Buy Now, Pay Later” traps
- Tools, mindsets, and support systems that help you keep your financial revolution alive
- Why tax planning is the financial Boston Tea Party nobody’s talking about
- The trivia showdown no revolutionary should miss: How many grains of silver made a dollar in 1792? (Spoiler: Jesse knows his colonial coinage.)
And in the aftershow? We ask the deep questions our Founding Fathers never saw coming, like: why is gambling debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, but student loans aren’t?
🔗 Links from the Basement
- Dorethia Kelly: dorethiakelly.com and follow @iamdorothea on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube
- Jesse Cramer: The Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors Podcast (P-FLY, baby!)
- Steve Stewart: stevestewart.me for podcast editing help and community
💬 Join the Revolution
What’s your financial independence moment? Declared war on debt? Raided the coffers of lifestyle inflation? Come tell us in The Basement (our Facebook group) or catch us live on YouTube when we record!
💣 Because nothing says freedom like getting your financial house in order—before Doug moves in and changes your ringtone to Yankee Doodle.
FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/financial-independence-day-2025-1704
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Our Topic: Your declaration of financial independence
During our conversation, you’ll hear us mention:
- Financial wake-up calls
- Declaring money independence
- Credit card traps
- Debt payoff strategies
- Lifestyle creep
- Buy Now Pay Later
- Interest rate misconceptions
- Credit score myths
- Budgeting habits
- Family money talks
- Teaching kids finance
- Comparison culture
- Social media pressure
- Tax efficiency
- Student loan policies
- Bankruptcy inconsistencies
- Cash vs. credit
- Frugality mindset
- Income vs. expenses
- Saving vs. spending
- Support systems
- Financial mentors
- Building community
- Money misinformation
- Financial literacy tools
Our Contributors
A big thanks to our contributors! You can check out more links for our guests below.
Dorethia Kelly

Another thanks to Dorethia Kelly for joining our contributors this week! Learn more about Dorethia by visiting her website at Dorethia Kelly Financial Expert.
Check out her book #MoneyChat: How to Get Out of Debt, Manage Your Money, and Create Financial Freedom.
Jesse Cramer

Another thanks to Jesse Cramer for joining our contributors this week! Hear more from Jesse on his show, Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors – The Best Interest, on Apple Podcasts.
Learn how you can work with Jesse by visiting The Best Interest – Invest in Knowledge.
Steve Stewart

Steve is the Podcast Editor for some of the biggest indie personal finance podcasts like the Stacking Benjamins Show (look at that!), Afford Anything with Paula Pant, and the MilMo Show.
He also created the Podcast Editors Club, now with over 9,000 members, and co-founded the Podcast Editor Academy, which helps individuals build their own podcast services business.
You could say Steve loves the podcasting space. If you’re looking for help with your podcast, Steve is there to support!
Doug’s Game Show Trivia
- According to the Coinage Act of 1792, which established the value of a dollar, how many grains of silver equaled one US dollar?
Mentioned in today’s show
- THE PODCAST EDITOR ACADEMY
- Dorethia’s Instagram
- Coach Dorethia – YouTube
- Dorethia Kelly, MBA | LinkedIn
Join Us on Monday!
Tune in on Monday when we kick off the next edition of Greatest Hits Week! We kick things off with a classic episode centered around decluttering your life.
Miss our last show? Check it out here: Turning Ideas into Billion Dollar Businesses (with Julie Wainwright) SB1703.
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] Joe: Doug, you ready to start this thing? [00:00:02] Doug: I am. Hit record. [00:00:05] Joe: I think we’re recording. We are recording. [00:00:07] Doug: Oh, cool. I wish somebody told me I wouldn’t have said all the stupid stuff. Hey Joe, it’s summer blockbuster movie season, right? I mean, I know you’re into movies. You’re probably gonna go to a couple ’em. We got F1. [00:00:21] Doug: We got, what is it? Thunderbolts is coming. The surfers coming out. Check this out. When will you finally declare your financial independence? Well, hopefully right now because live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it’s the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:00:52] Doug: I am Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, in this Independence day, let’s start a revolution. Who’s with me today? We’re talking about how to burn down the barriers of debt, overthrow bad planning, and start anew. But that’s not all. Of course, we never build a newer and better financial plan that didn’t include our awesome Friday trivia competition. [00:01:15] Doug: And now here’s a guy who’s lightened the lantern and shouting. The savings are coming. The savings are coming. It’s Joe. Oh Saul, see, hi. [00:01:29] Joe: Hey, there’s stackers. And happy Friday to you if you’re in the United States. Happy Independence Day. If you’re anywhere else, happy Friday. We do have a special show for you today because we are celebrating Money Revolutions, and we got a few revolutionaries here with us, so sit back and relax because we’re about to have not a lot of tips per minute, but a lot of fun conversation about great money topics. [00:01:53] Joe: And so our first revolutionary. He’s the guy that doesn’t throw tea in the harbor, but he will toss out your tired old money habits. Mr. Jesse Kramer’s here. How are you man? [00:02:03] Jesse: Doing well. I wasn’t sure if that was gonna be my intro or not, but uh, yep. Big tea party fan. Sometimes just me and my dolls sometimes, uh, on a boat, but, uh, either way. [00:02:12] Jesse: Happy to be here. [00:02:13] Joe: Yeah. Sometimes you and your dolls sometimes on a boat, but does have to be either or. You could have your dolls on the boat. [00:02:18] Jesse: That’s special occasions, but that might be this weekend. That might be, uh, July 4th weekend. It’s that special. [00:02:23] Joe: Fantastic. And guess who else we got with us, Jesse. [00:02:26] Joe: Who else? We have a woman from Detroit, Michigan. She says, down with tyranny and down with monthly banking fees. That’s right, my friend. Money chat. Dorothea Kelly’s back. How are you? Woo. Hey. So happy [00:02:40] Dorethia: to be here. [00:02:41] Joe: It has been too long. It’s been far too long. It has. I know. How have you been? I have been amazing. [00:02:46] Joe: You’ve been mastering TikTok lately. You’ve been all over TikTok. Yes. I’m [00:02:49] Dorethia: mastering TikTok all over it. Yes. So we [00:02:52] Joe: find you at Dorothea Kelly or at Money Chat on TikTok. [00:02:55] Dorethia: Um, at I am Dorothea on. All right. All things social media. Yes. You know what [00:03:00] Joe: we’re gonna do? We’re gonna link to it in the show notes, everybody. [00:03:02] Joe: ’cause you wanna follow Dorothea Kelly? Yes. [00:03:04] Dorethia: Yes. Uh, [00:03:05] Joe: money chats though, Dorothea, super important when you’re trying to quote, overthrow your money situation and start a revolution. [00:03:13] Dorethia: Absolutely. Because what you don’t talk about, you don’t do. Gotta say it out loud. And it’s not just about what you’re saying, it’s about the strategies that you’re putting behind it. [00:03:21] Dorethia: So we can all make up stuff and say anything. There’s no revolution in that. The revolution is in the action that you take behind what you’re saying and your goal. So absolutely. [00:03:30] Joe: Well, guess what? We got a guy for the revolution today with us. Dorothy, you know who else is here? Uh oh. Who is, it is a guy who’s crossing the Delaware debt to plant the flag of freedom on your Money Mountain. [00:03:42] Joe: He’s on every single episode, but you rarely hear him on the mic and he is a big part of every episode. Steve Stewart is here. How are you man? [00:03:52] Steve: Hey, long time listener. Long. I was listening to Stacking Benjamin Show before it was the Stacking Benjamin Show long time listener. [00:03:58] Joe: Well, and what’s funny brother, is that we were listening to your awesome show, money Play Os mm-hmm. [00:04:04] Steve: Before Stacking Benjamins. That was fun. We got to meet in FinCon in 2012. You you actually tackled me at the elevator. I think it was just before I went up to my hotel room and I had no idea who you were. And it’s been a brotherhood ever since. You’re my type of guy. I have been, I have been just a stalking a Steve Stalker [00:04:20] Joe: since the very beginning. [00:04:22] Joe: You found out who you were after he pressed charges [00:04:25] Dorethia: there. It’s like, oh, nevermind. Yes. [00:04:28] Joe: And for people are nude to Stacky Benjamin’s universe. Steve has been, uh. Editing the Stack Benjamin Show since, uh, near the very beginning. I did it myself for a while, Steve, and then you took over. And by the way, Steve didn’t have any gray hair before he started. [00:04:39] Joe: No. Working with [00:04:41] Steve: this is, uh, relatively new past decade. [00:04:43] Joe: All right. We’ve got, uh, Steve here. We got Dorothea, we got Jesse, we got neighbor, Doug and me. We’re gonna start a money revolution, so we’re gonna talk all things. What do you gotta do to start that fire, right? To get things going when it comes to your money. [00:04:56] Joe: We’re going to have a lot of fun with that today. Before that, we got a couple sponsors that make sure we can keep on keeping on, so we’re gonna hear from them. And then Dorothea, Jesse, Steve, Doug, and me. We’re gonna dive into starting the Money revolution. [00:05:19] Joe: You know what, before we get started, we’re not the only ones. By the way, guys, we are live on YouTube. We got Dan hanging out with us in Maryland. Dan, who’s Baltimore? Orioles? Uh, Doug. They’re not having the year they had last year. No, no. That was an anomaly. Let’s be honest. That was in novel. Wow. Dan, send your hate mail to Doug. [00:05:36] Joe: Not to be Matt from Charlotte, North Carolina. Here. Eric is here from Minnesota. We got, uh, Bradley hanging out. Kyle from Vermont, love Vermont, and of course love Kyle except for the fact that he went to the University of Michigan, that horrible, horrible school. If it’s the cow, I think it is, uh, be in California in the high desert. [00:05:56] Joe: Jessica in Colorado. Thanks for hanging out. We generally make the show on Wednesday afternoon, so if you get a chance, come and. Watch us, uh, make the show. But let’s start off guys talking about this idea of a money revolution, because, you know, some people were good with money from the very beginning, but for me, I had to have a gigantic wake up call. [00:06:14] Joe: Like it truly was a revolution. I had to say, you know what? Screw this, I gotta do better. Like for you, Dorothea, was it a money revolution? Did you have to. Smack yourself upside the head and say, let’s do things a lot differently, or were you good from the beginning? [00:06:29] Dorethia: No, there was no good from the beginning. [00:06:31] Dorethia: The beginning was very, very rocky. I was a single mother. Everybody I saw was broke and I was like, is this, this cannot be how life should be lived. I had to have my own revolution to say, I want a different life, then teach myself because there was nobody to teach me. So there was absolutely a revolution and it took a lot of mindset changes for me. [00:06:54] Dorethia: Especially when your surroundings, you don’t see too much else. [00:06:57] Joe: For me, it was a set day. Dorothy, I was actually out in Ann Arbor speaking of that horrible town. I was in Ann Arbor and I ran outta gas one day and I was walking to the gas station. When I realized just how screwed I was and how I had to do things a ton different, like there was a day when my revolution started. [00:07:15] Joe: Did yours have a day or was it kind of slower build? [00:07:19] Dorethia: I think it was a slower build. I think for me it wasn’t a day because I was so young and I was on my own so early that that it just was my life was the revolution. And I was like, I knew I wanted something different. So there was not a day when I said, you know what? [00:07:34] Dorethia: I gotta do something different. [00:07:36] Joe: Yeah. [00:07:36] Dorethia: The way I started life as a young adult, I immediately knew that wasn’t how I wanted to live. [00:07:40] Joe: But still, the people you’re around teaching yourself, teaching your kids, like all this stuff, all completely revolutionary. [00:07:46] Dorethia: Absolutely. And I’ll say this though, the creditor calls crying to myself to sleep at night. [00:07:54] Dorethia: Those are moments along the revolution, right, that make you say never again. So I, I would say, and I bet a bunch of folks would agree with me, I never wanted a creditor to call me again. Yeah. Because that was. Crazy. It was stressful. And the things they would say to you was inhumane. So I was gonna say Dorothea, [00:08:11] Joe: the ones that I got, I don’t know if they were like mine, but the ones that I got, those people to call ’em s is being incredibly nice. [00:08:17] Dorethia: Very nice, very kind of you. [00:08:21] Joe: Let’s see about, uh, what about you, Jesse? Was it, uh, revolution for you and your money, or were you good with money from the beginning? [00:08:27] Jesse: No, I was, was not good from the beginning. I can think of a few formative moments, a few times where, uh. I declared independence, as it were, from my lack of common sense by Thomas Payne. [00:08:39] Jesse: Oh yeah. Deep cut there, Doug. Well done. Well done. Deep, deep. Done. Well done. [00:08:43] Joe: Respect. I love how it was, by the way, for people that missed it. It, it, it was declaring independence from common sense, not toward common sense [00:08:50] Jesse: from my, was it my lack of common sense, but did I do a triple negative there? I tried to flip it on his head, declared independence from my lack of common sense. [00:08:58] Jesse: Gotcha. You know, pursued the liberty poll. And really, for me, early on, I remember thinking to myself that I could monitor and manage just simple cash flow without even paying attention to it. Like, okay, I, I, I’ll just spend money the way I wanna spend money, and at the end of the day, I, I should be fine. [00:09:14] Jesse: And after a few months of trying that, or maybe a few years of trying that, I, uh, kind of tarred and feathered that habit, put it to bed. And, uh, declared revolution. I started measuring my money, started investing wisely. I’ve told that story before. And [00:09:28] Joe: was there a day though? Was there a day like me or was it more like Dorothea where it was a no, like a slow burn? [00:09:34] Jesse: It was years and years of, it was a slow grind. Yeah. And I’m trying, I’m trying to put into revolutionary terms. I’m sure the, uh, American Patriots here just got sick and tired of the loyalists and taxation without representation. It wasn’t one moment. It, well, maybe eventually it turned into one moment in the revolution, but for me it was just enough was enough. [00:09:53] Joe: Yeah. Just boiling point after a while. Steve, let’s hear your story, man. Revolution or good with money from the beginning, [00:10:01] Steve: I, I was average with money. I had frugal parents and I just learned how to live that way. And I was only broke for a few years, maybe after high school. But then I had, you know, I was above the line on, on net worth, I think for quite a while. [00:10:11] Steve: But it wasn’t until I had a pivot point. So not at like a revolution day, but a pivot point. I. When my wife and I went to buy her a new Jeep, I’d been listening to Dave Ramey for a couple years, thought, oh, we’re okay. We’ll we’ll keep the credit cards and you know, mortgage is fine, all that stuff. But then we went to get this Jeep and we couldn’t pay cash for it. [00:10:27] Steve: And I’m like, we should be better than this. I really thought we should be better than this. So at that point, it was in 2007 that I decided this is it. I’m getting rid of the debt. I cut up my credit cards and I just paid off the car as fast as we could. It took about a year, and since that I’ve been consumer debt free. [00:10:40] Steve: Mm-hmm. [00:10:40] Joe: Uh, you had [00:10:41] Steve: just [00:10:41] Joe: a [00:10:41] Steve: mortgage, right? Yeah, just a mortgage. And we paid that off early too in 2015 until we moved here a year ago and now I’ve got a mortgage again. But we’re gonna get that really fast. [00:10:48] Joe: You’re like OG who’s on vacation today, but you and OG like working hard to pay that mortgage off early. [00:10:53] Joe: It’s not about interest rate, it’s about getting rid of the loan. [00:10:56] Steve: Yeah. And you know, we can talk interest rates, but it’s really not about that. It’s about having that monthly obligation. Mm-hmm. We wanna have the money that we make go towards the things that we wanna buy. We made that decision when we decided to get this house that was more expensive than what we could afford at the time. [00:11:11] Steve: So we are paying that off. Paying that price, I guess you’d say. But yeah, I, OG and I are in a race right now to see who can pay off their mortgage early. [00:11:19] Joe: That’s fantastic. Well o Okay guys, let’s do this. Some people need to declare independence from debt, right? It’s revolutionary because debt keeps people financially, quote, colonized credit cards, car loans, student loans dictate their life. [00:11:34] Joe: Dorothea. When you’ve got debt, you’re not calling the shots. You know, you talked about those creditors calling. They’re calling the shots. [00:11:40] Dorethia: That’s right. Absolutely. They’re calling the shots. And a lot of times, and we’ve all been here, right? We’ve been in a lot of places, experienced a lot of things. But one thing that really gets you with the credit cards is people assume that if I just pay the minimum payment, or maybe I’ll pay a little bit more, I’ll be okay, I’ll still be paying the debt down. [00:12:00] Dorethia: But what you really have to understand is that you have your minimum payment. But if you don’t also pay all of the interest that you’ve incurred for that month, that is how the hole gets deeper and deeper. So if your minimum payment is a hundred dollars and you pay 150, but the interest is 180, you have not helped yourself any. [00:12:22] Dorethia: And I think that people really miss that point and they’re like, well, I’m making the payments. I’m paying $50 extra. Well, you’re not really helping yourself because you have to pay both, and you really need to work on those lump sums to pay it off so that credit card debt really gets people in a bind. [00:12:38] Joe: Dorothy, a couple weeks ago, Cheryl, my spouse and I went to, uh, Creighton Barrel because they were having this huge, like clearance sale we’re adding onto our house. We found a sofa that was about half off, which meant that it’s about a reasonable price for a sofa instead of Crate and barrel prices. Right? [00:12:53] Dorethia: Eggs. I was about to say, when you said Crate and Barrel, I was like, oh, okay. Right. [00:12:57] Joe: But here’s the deal. I found out that I would get even more off if I opened up a Crate and Barrel credit card and used the credit card. And I had the money in cash. I was ready to spend cash. I opened up Crate and Barrel credit card. [00:13:11] Dorethia: Yes, I [00:13:11] Joe: used the credit card. Yes. I just got the agreement in the mail last week. Do you know what the interest rate is? Dorothea, to your 0.0, on that Crate and Barrel credit card? [00:13:20] Dorethia: 29.99%. [00:13:22] Joe: Yeah. What is it? 33? Yep, [00:13:25] Dorethia: yep, yep. 33% interest. It’s crazy [00:13:29] Joe: what? What they were charging. So anyway, I got the great deal and that thing’s going away. [00:13:33] Dorethia: That’s what I’m saying. So you took advantage of it. You didn’t need it though. You see the difference a hundred percent. So that when you got the statement and you’re like, uh, no, I’m not paying this. You were able to get your furniture for cheaper. Finance it for that moment, and then the next month pay the whole thing off. [00:13:47] Joe: Yeah. Steve, you’re a guy who, I mean, back in money play and SOS days today, like whenever you’re appearing anywhere, you’re like, just stay away from debt, stay away from credit cards. You don’t play the points game. When did you declare the revolution against, against Debt, but because I think about you and I think about staying outta debt. [00:14:07] Steve: Yeah, it was 2007. It was that day with the, with the Jeep and just decided that, was it Borrow that, was [00:14:11] Joe: it? Like not, not, not anything besides that. Yeah. Like I feel like family members in the past got into debt trouble or something. And that’s why you were so passionate about not having debt. [00:14:21] Steve: No, I just, I just knew it would be a better thing for my net worth overall. [00:14:24] Steve: And it’s so much better to have that cash available to you. Even, even on a short term basis, when you get paid, that money’s yours to spend. It’s not something that you have to repay back. It was really just to stay outta debt. I don’t really, I do get concerned about paying interest. Sure. There’s that, you’re, you’re paying more for something just because if you’re paying interest, not paying off the debt every single month, but as far as like the credit cards and stuff. [00:14:42] Steve: You know, the revolution for me was to also just rail against the whole, you need to have credit cards to live in the United States. I haven’t had credit cards since 2008 yet. We’ve taken trips, we’ve flown rented cars, hotels. There’s nothing keeping me from doing anything here because I don’t have any credit cards. [00:14:57] Steve: I have a debit card, I have a bank account. I can transfer money back and forth. We pay for things with cash and cash equivalents. [00:15:04] Joe: Future expenses can always be in the future. I, I, I don’t make money and spending it on hamburgers I had in the past. [00:15:12] Steve: Yeah. And another thing too, if you don’t have the cash to pay for something, it makes you think twice about it. [00:15:15] Steve: And I. It also makes you find alternative ways to get whatever it is that you’re looking for. So first you’re identifying, do I really need the thing? And then secondly, you’re thinking, okay, if I can’t pay cash now, what can I do without borrowing money to get there? Work harder, work longer, work more hours, whatever. [00:15:30] Steve: There’s a lot of creative ways people can generate income or get prices down to where they can afford the thing before they have to go and buy that. Instead of buying that $25,000 vehicle, maybe they, they settle for a $10,000 for the next couple years. [00:15:43] Joe: Jesse, your first tip to people listening or, or hanging out with this on YouTube who might have a debt problem, like what’s the first thing they should do? [00:15:52] Jesse: Ooh, really good question. The first thing they should do, my mind, there’s a tie and it’s either stop the leaking, that might be the first thing you wanna do. It’s just like, well, is the debt growing? If so, like, can you stop doing that thing that the debt, you know, is like, is there a spending problem, for lack of a better term? [00:16:08] Jesse: But then tied with that is just. Understanding, identifying the debt itself. And, and in my personal approach would be stack ranking it by interest rate. Right? Understand which debts do you have and then what’s the principle amount and, and then what are the interest rates? ’cause my approach is you wanna start paying down the, the highest interest rate debts first. [00:16:28] Joe: Mm-hmm. Stop the leaking. I love that. Have you ever experienced leakage, Jesse? Yeah, it’s gross. [00:16:34] Jesse: Uh, remember what I was saying earlier about my tea party? [00:16:38] Doug: Here we go. I knew you weren’t gonna be able to let that go. Oh my goodness. Like what? Let what go. I’m just, as soon as he said leaking, I’m like, oh, here we go. [00:16:47] Joe: I just asked trade locker room. I asked a simple question. Dorothy, what’s the first thing you would tell people to do when they have debt problems? [00:16:54] Dorethia: Oh, definitely pause. The thing is that a lot of times when people have debt problems, what do they do? They go look for more debt to cover that debt, right? [00:17:05] Dorethia: It’s like, what are you doing? I’m like, what’s happening here? But honestly. You have to get another job because your income does not allow you to cover your expenses when now that you’ve got all this racked up, all this debt. So it’s a season of extra work. It is a season of extra work, and then all the extra money you make goes to pay that debt off. [00:17:27] Joe: I had a friend in college named Lisa, who is running her own Ponzi scheme, Dorothy. She was opening up new credit cards to pay off the old credit cards. Yes. And it was only a matter of time till we, what’s going on? She goes, at some point my dad’s gonna find out. [00:17:39] Dorethia: Exactly. That was what [00:17:40] Joe: I mean, how lucky by the way, that she had a dad who was gonna be able to bail her out in the first place. [00:17:46] Joe: Right. Exactly. ’cause for me, I didn’t, my, my dad would’ve went, good [00:17:49] Dorethia: luck. No. Yeah. My mother was like, uh, I have nothing to help you with. You’re on your own. Right. [00:17:54] Joe: Steve, anything to add? When people are first staring down the barrel of debt, starting the revolution, [00:18:00] Steve: Dorthea just answered it. How could I even expound on that? [00:18:03] Steve: She has the answers. All the answers come from her. [00:18:06] Joe: You gotta work. Alright. All right. Well Steve, let’s stick with you for the second one because you know what, there’s getting into debt and then there’s this amazing thing where there is no interest called buy now. Pay later now. Right? I mean, I can buy it now. [00:18:21] Joe: I can have the thing, but I don’t have to pay right away. And as long as I make the four easy payments or whatever, there’s zero interest due. What, what could be wrong with [00:18:30] Steve: that? It sounds so great, doesn’t it? But I go back to my original principle that if I can’t pay cash for it, then I don’t buy it. [00:18:36] Steve: Because now I’ve got that obligation coming out in the future, even if it’s a zero. Yeah. Or even if I get it at a discount, it’s still gonna be an obligation in the future. And I, I like simplicity. I like it to be easy. I like my budget to show what I’m paying for and what I want to buy and not what I have purchased and what I have to go back and pay off. [00:18:55] Steve: Mm-hmm. It’s just a simplicity type of easy living. [00:18:58] Joe: So another thing on here, another um, a revolutionary concept, let’s overthrow the demons of lifestyle creep. Why this is revolutionary. The more you make, the more you spend, the more you stay stuck. The revolution, draw a line in the sand and say, you know what, I’m not gonna do that. [00:19:13] Joe: And yet, Jesse, you know, you look at the neighbors down the street, they got a new car. You look at the nice neighborhood, man that’s just a little bit nicer, the neighborhood you live in, you’ve got a child. Now you’re like, if I could bring up my child in that neighborhood versus this neighborhood and I only gotta stretch a little bit, [00:19:32] Jesse: yeah. [00:19:33] Jesse: That’s of revolution against our human brains, right? Our. Comparison. Brains are jealous brains. What is it? Um, Charlie Munger has this really good quote, basically saying that like, envy, envy is like the worst of the seven sins. And it’s, well, he says it because it’s the only one that you don’t get any joy from, which is pretty funny if you think about it. [00:19:53] Jesse: But he’s got a good point where it’s just like, envy is this, you know, we, we all have it. And, uh, we see what other people have. We want that thing too. I was just having a really good conversation with, uh, Spencer, who runs a podcast called The Military Money Manual. And I was asking him, ’cause he was kind of telling me about his military career and how like, you know, as you rank up you get more income and, and, and some other benefits too. [00:20:13] Jesse: And I was like, well, when you ranked up, when you first became like a captain. Did you look around at like what all the other captains have and did you feel some of that? And he’s like, yeah, a little bit of it, but sometimes yes, sometimes no. But it’s all around us. Like there are hierarchies all around us and it’s only natural, it’s only human to compare yourself to other people in your hierarchy, but then also maybe above you too. [00:20:31] Jesse: Or even worse, maybe. I don’t know. When someone, what’s that one famous quote? There’s like Warren Buffet says it is, there’s nothing that makes you feel worse than when your neighbor who’s like stupider than you is making more money. Like I know it’s a harsh quote, but Warren Buffet said it, but like there’s something, there’s something human where like we compare ourselves to others. [00:20:49] Jesse: We try to rank ourselves compared to others. How is [00:20:51] Doug: that more on, make it more than me? He just described what I feel like every time I’m on this show. Yeah, [00:20:58] Jesse: that’s exactly right. But I think it is, uh, we really need to try hard to overcome all of those thought processes, whether they lead to lifestyle creep itself or whether it’s just that feeling of envy and jealousy that brings us down because other people have nicer things than us. [00:21:11] Jesse: It’s hard to do. But really important, [00:21:14] Joe: Dorothea, one difference between when you and I were neighbors in Detroit mm-hmm. And, uh, living now back in small town America, Texarkana. Is that in the Detroit area? I could feel the rat race. You could just, you just feel that around you when you’re at the grocery store, when you’re at Yeah. [00:21:31] Joe: Kids events. Right. Oh my goodness. PTA meetings. You could just feel this rat race. I’m [00:21:38] Dorethia: gonna tell you, let me tell you. So well, how do you set it aside? [00:21:40] Joe: Yeah. [00:21:41] Dorethia: Well, one time my daughter was in high school and we moved, had moved to the suburb so she could get a good education, right? I’m in this PTA meeting, there’s this trip and I think the trip was like a thousand dollars. [00:21:53] Dorethia: And I’m sitting there like, okay, what is the payment plan? Because, and everybody else is like, can I write a check? And I was like, wait, what? Where else? Like, hold on. So you don’t wanna be like, what’s the payment plan when everybody else is like, yeah, I can write a check, get my credit card. You really have to be confident in who you are and your goals. [00:22:12] Dorethia: And social media does not help. Like we’re talking about the in-person lifestyle. When you’re at the grocery store and you’re riding around, everybody’s got these different kind of cars and these fancy, uh, you know, the parents with the, um, baby strollers, like thousand dollar baby strollers. Like what is happening here? [00:22:29] Dorethia: And you really have to focus on your goals. But here’s something that might bring some levity for everybody. Some people are doing great. They’ve got the money. That’s cool. But you don’t know the situation. You have no idea what’s really going on behind closed doors. You don’t like, I’m a coach, you guys, we’re all in this money game. [00:22:46] Dorethia: So we’ve heard all the stories who is, you know, refinancing this, who is going into deep debt to keep up with other people who really shouldn’t have bought that luxury vehicle, but just had to have it because I worked so hard. Right? You cannot compare yourself to what everybody else has going on, even if what they have going on is real and true and great and they really have all that money. [00:23:05] Joe: It’s funny, the, the display of wealth, to your point when I was a financial planner, Dorothy, it was exactly a hundred percent what you’re talking about. Display of wealth and having money. Two totally different things. When you got to see behind the hood, you’re like, really? You know, you’re spending every dollar you make so that you look great. [00:23:20] Joe: Yes. Alright. In the second half of today, I want to talk about. Breaking up with bad money vice, there’s a revolution. We talked a little bit about that, uh, on the show last week, starting a tax revolt, maybe even, uh, storming the gates of financial literacy and more. But before we do that, at the halfway point of every Friday show, we have this year long competition between our three frequent contributors, OG Jesse and Paula Pant. [00:23:47] Joe: Uh, just to keep things easy, will keep genders the same. So, Dorothea, you’ll play on behalf of Paula. How about that? Okay, Steve, if you’ll play on behalf of og, which means Dorothea, that means there’s some good news and bad news playing for Paula. You want the good news of the bad news. Uh, [00:24:02] Dorethia: let’s go with the good news first. [00:24:04] Joe: Well, the good news is, is that you’re gonna get to guess last because you are tied with Jesse, which means, uh, bad news for Steve. Steve playing for OG OGs out in front. But, but how much, Doug, what’s the score of this contest so far for 2025? [00:24:19] Jesse: Why don’t I just get the point? Can we, [00:24:24] Jesse: can we just agree to this? Please? [00:24:26] Joe: We could save ourselves 15 minutes. [00:24:28] Jesse: Hey, here’s a revolutionary idea for you. Gimme the point, please. [00:24:32] Doug: Well, Joe, we’ve got, uh, Paula and Jesse are tied at five and a half and OGs way out front with nine points right now. [00:24:41] Dorethia: Oh, wow. [00:24:41] Joe: Okay. All right. So Dorothea and Jesse, you got a mission here. [00:24:45] Joe: Either Jesse needs the point or Dorothea slash Paula needs the point. Steve, you can leave the brains at home today. We’ve got, gotta have a trivia question though. What’s on your mind this, uh, holiday weekend, Doug? [00:24:59] Doug: Well, Joe, this is a trivia question that we spent at least four and a half minutes researching, so I just can’t wait for, for everybody to hear this one. [00:25:06] Doug: Hey, there’s stackers. Oh, I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. And this discussion has been pure gold, hasn’t it? But on today’s date, way back in 1792, the young and lean US government passed a bill to make things way better for US currency. They called it the Big Beautiful Money Bill. No, that’s [00:25:27] Joe: not a, that wasn’t a thing. [00:25:28] Joe: In fact, we didn’t have to name all the bills back in the day. No. No. [00:25:32] Doug: Okay. Alright. Well, before Bill naming became a thing, they just called it the Coinage Act of 1792. Look, there are two words for that boar ring. I mean, there’s a reason they wrote all the boring bills before the internet. Anyway, in this act, the US Congress decided to use the silver standard to standardize the first official US currency. [00:25:57] Doug: So here’s the question. How many grains of silver and I can see the WT Fs on your face right now? Yes. Grains is an official measurement of silver. How many grains of silver equaled $1? Back in 1792 when they established the standard, I’ll be back right after I changed Joe’s mom’s ringtone to Yankee doodle. [00:26:21] Doug: Oh, that’s gonna be funny. Oh, that’s just [00:26:24] Joe: hilarious. Doug’s got all the good jokes. We’re talking grains of silver. Silver. [00:26:30] Dorethia: Yeah. And by the way, I’m so sorry, Paula, [00:26:34] Joe: but before we get to grains of silver, by the way, uh, Doug, you said WTFI saw somebody online last week who said they told their mom that WTF meant while. [00:26:43] Joe: That’s fantastic. And, and so when they, she found out her niece had a baby, she wrote WTF, which she found out that another family was getting married. She wrote WTF Uhoh. [00:26:57] Doug: Lot of unintended consequence. That’s like the people who use the, the laughing crying emoji. ’cause they see tears and they’ll use it for a sad thing. [00:27:06] Doug: Oh yeah, yeah. Well, my, my aunt passed away and then they send the, oh no emoji. Well, we had what [00:27:11] Joe: Mindy Jensen on talking about how. Oh yeah, she noticed there was a random vegetable, so she sent everybody eggplants when she would send emails. Uh, so good. All right, Steve, you’re guessing first grains of silver. [00:27:26] Joe: How many grains of silver back in 1792 Equal to dollar grains. Really? Grains is this kinda like the unit of measurement for silver, [00:27:37] Steve: like pound and pound? There’s money pounds. And the weight of pounds is, there’s grains in silver. There is, there [00:27:44] Joe: is. [00:27:46] Steve: Good lord. Okay, I’m just gonna throw a number out there ’cause there’s absolutely no way I can poll my way through that type of a question. [00:27:54] Doug: Did he just use Paula’s name as a verb? [00:27:57] Steve: I’m pointing it tm. [00:27:58] Doug: Paula, your way. I’m asking [00:27:59] Steve: for og. So let me do all the OGs. [00:28:01] Joe: We’re kind of hoping you, Paula, your way through it and, uh, don’t get it right? [00:28:04] Steve: Yeah. Uh, okay. So what would OG say. He would say, I have no idea, no bleeping idea. I would probably just go ahead and say, 1.5 million grains, 1.5 million [00:28:19] Joe: grains. [00:28:21] Joe: Jesse, [00:28:22] Jesse: I’m gonna go lower. We’ll establish that. Uh, I’m gonna go, I have no idea as well. Yeah, like if you looking it [00:28:32] Steve: up on his phone. [00:28:33] Jesse: No, no, no, no, no. I’m looking down at my notes. I dunno if you can see my, my notepad here where I was doing some calculations [00:28:40] Dorethia: to figure out the grains [00:28:42] Jesse: or, yeah, just right. I’m thinking to myself like a grain of sand, right? [00:28:45] Jesse: How many grains of sand would I have to smelt to create something that’s the size of a coin? That’s kinda what I was thinking. So I’m gonna go with, uh, 800 grains. [00:28:55] Joe: 800 grains. Dorothea, you got 801 point something million from from Steve. One point what million? Steve? 1.5. What the heck? 1.5. [00:29:07] Dorethia: Listen. A million. [00:29:08] Dorethia: Listen, I have absolutely no idea. [00:29:10] Joe: It’s gonna be a million grains. All right. We got a million. We get 1,000,500 thousand. And we have just, you had 500 and what? [00:29:18] Jesse: I think I said 800. I said 800 grains. [00:29:20] Joe: 800 grains, sorry. All right. And 800 grains. How many grains are right? We’re gonna find out in just a minute. [00:29:26] Joe: We’ll be right back. Steve, you kicked off this shindig by saying 1.5 million grains. Everybody else thought that was too many grains, that you can never have enough grains though, can [00:29:40] Steve: you? No. That’s great for your diet. Yeah. And the fiber that comes along with stuff like that. That’s, that’s right. OG would be proud. [00:29:46] Joe: Uh, Jesse, you went with 800, I think a factor. Many Xs below, uh, 1.5 million. [00:29:53] Jesse: Mm-hmm. [00:29:54] Joe: What do you think? Feeling [00:29:55] Jesse: good. I’m not feeling good about the guess of 800, but only in comparison to the much higher guesses. I am feeling good. Oh, only ’cause here’s my thought, it’s 1792. You’re writing a coinage act. [00:30:09] Jesse: You’re wondering, okay, we’re gonna make these coins. I assume one has to be able to count out the grains. Potentially that would go into a coin. I’m not sure how that all works. I’m just a modern, I’m not a, I’m a modern thinker. I’m not a 1700 thinker, but, uh. If anything, I don’t know. I think the answer might be like 17. [00:30:28] Jesse: So I’m feeling okay. [00:30:29] Joe: I, I don’t know. We’ll see if Jesse’s, uh, math in his head actually makes any sense. Dorothea, you went, well, not quite down the middle. You went with a million. Feeling good? [00:30:40] Dorethia: Yeah. Yeah. Feeling great. [00:30:44] Joe: It’s fine. She’s like, just give us the answer. Come on. Put us out of our misery, Doug, who’s gonna win this thing? [00:30:54] Doug: Well, hey Stackers. I’m expert prank, yet Guy who didn’t know Joe’s mom’s ringtone was already Yankee Doodle Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Ah, the Coinage Act of 1792. That old Pearl, I’ll bet there were fireworks that day as advocates of pyrite saw their metal cast aside and even slander called fools gold. [00:31:16] Doug: Heck, courts and Calcite didn’t stand a chance because it was silver’s big day. As today’s question, the US Congress pegged the value of a dollar on just how many grains of silver. Well, I’m not gonna give you the answer. This is OGs favorite part. I will tell you. The correct answer is 1499628.8 less than what Steve guessed, 999628.75 less than what Dorothea guessed, and just 428.75 less than what Jesse guessed, because the correct answer is 371.25 grains of silver making Jesse our winner. [00:32:03] Doug: Let me do some math for you folks out there who I know are thinking about it. Yes, a grain is an actual unit of measurement. One grain equals about 0.155 gram or 0.005 ounces and based on today’s silver price, yes, I checked this. That’s worth about $28 and 18 cents today. Congratulations, Jesse. You get no silver, just a single grain. [00:32:30] Doug: It’s the first 28 bucks. No, no, no, no. The 371. 3 71 5 grains, that equaled a dollar in 1792. ’cause you can go online, they still measure silver in grains. So I found a site online. Wow. And you put, it says how many grains you have. 3 71 0.25. And it tells you based on today’s price, this was as of like, I don’t know, one o’clock earlier today it was $28 and 18 cents. [00:32:54] Doug: So there’s some interesting thought process there between 1792 that was a buck. And today it’s only 28 18. [00:32:59] Joe: Talk about that money genius. You wonder how Doug finds these websites. It’s late at night. He’s got all the lights off. I turn all the trackers off when I’m going to these silver puts INO mode [00:33:09] Jesse: drinking tea [00:33:14] Joe: and goes and finds out how many grains of silver. All right. Congratulations, Jesse. Nice work man. [00:33:19] Jesse: Thank you very much. Feels good. I’m off the Schneider. You, [00:33:25] Joe: you were still, it was what? A half of the number that you had. Yeah. Let’s get into the second half of our discussion because man, do we need a revolution? [00:33:32] Joe: Let’s talk about rallying the troops. AKA, your family, right? We’re gonna have a revolution, Dorothea. We need better people around us. Maybe not even our family, but maybe better advisors, maybe better surround sound, maybe better tools at our hands. [00:33:48] Dorethia: Yes, absolutely. I like the fact that you said not maybe just our family and friends, but also our tools because some people may not have, I am blessed that I do have a lot of family and friends who later were able to kind of rally around me, but some people don’t have that and they do need to either find a new community of people, find tools and different things. [00:34:10] Dorethia: For me, one thing that really, um, was impactful was I had an uncle and him and his wife had just bought a home, beautiful home. He had a plan to pay that home off in five years. That just that one statement was like, what? I had never heard anyone talk like that. So you need to be around people who are having those kind of conversations. [00:34:33] Dorethia: It may not be your family and friends. It may be, uh, somebody, another community that you’re involved in, but they’re having those kind of conversations without the scamming this of things that can go on. [00:34:45] Joe: I love the title of your book, hashtag Money Chats because Yes, money chats. I mean, we’re having a money chat right here, and if it’s your first time in one of these, man, they are all over the place. [00:34:54] Joe: Dorothy. Yes. People always say there’s no place to look, and yet YouTube is filled with people having conversations like we’re having right now. [00:35:01] Dorethia: Exactly. So use the tools at your disposal. Like I was saying, social media. Now we do have to be careful because some of it is not good advice, but vet the people that you’re following and [00:35:13] Doug: some [00:35:13] Dorethia: of it, why you, [00:35:14] Doug: because [00:35:14] Dorethia: you said some of [00:35:15] Doug: it’s not good advice, [00:35:16] Dorethia: right? [00:35:16] Dorethia: Right. Because I mean, I’ve heard some stuff. I’ve heard some stuff, but vet the people, follow the people, see what makes sense for you and what applies because there is some really, like Stacking Benjamins, there’s some really good quality advice that you can get by following those folks. It’s almost like your virtual money mentor. [00:35:35] Joe: I love that. I love the, uh, advice that our firm Roger Whitney gives Dorothea, which is if somebody is online, they’re talking about product. Run away. Yes. If they’re talking about process and way to think, that’s when you latch on. That’s right. Steve, you said that getting the Jeep changed everything, but it’s not just you. [00:35:53] Joe: You’ve got a daughter, you’ve got a spouse. Like how does the Steve Stewart team, how do you get the whole team involved so that [00:36:00] Steve: it becomes a team sport? It’s drawing out that picture of what you want to be, you know, they always say, what do you wanna have? Or what do you wanna be in five years picturing what you wanna have in the next decade? [00:36:10] Steve: What is it gonna look like? It never, ever works out that way, but at least you’re heading towards that goal. That was what kept us moving forward. It’s just be able to say, we don’t want to be like we used to be. We wanna improve and then this is what we wanna look like in five or 10 years. Do you feel like your daughter has good money habits? [00:36:26] Steve: She does, and we never actually, like just sat her down at the table and, you know, wagged our fingers and said, here’s what you gotta do. She just seemed to learn by observation and hearing the conversations like, like Dorothea was saying, just overhearing something and said, oh. I think that’s what she absorbed. [00:36:41] Steve: ’cause she’s got a good head on her shoulders. She’s making some good decisions. [00:36:44] Doug: You, you never had the sweetheart. Here’s how a dollar is made. It’s time you learned mansplaining, mansplaining money. Did you know how many grains are in the more corners? Really love each other. They turned into a $2 bill. [00:36:58] Joe: Well, dorthea, you have older kids like I do, like kids are sponges, man. Like even if, to your point, even if you don’t sit down with them, they’re watching you. [00:37:05] Dorethia: They are watching. And I did sit down because nobody sat me down and I didn’t want, I didn’t want them to live the way I did or start out the way I did. [00:37:15] Dorethia: Right. So I did sit my kids down. Now, sometimes they listen, sometimes they didn’t. My son, he really listens. He, he holds onto a dollar dollar. That’s another thing I would like to say for parents. Just do the best you can. Sit down with them. Teach them as they become adults, you will have to, sometimes just, it’s different relationship at that point. [00:37:36] Dorethia: But you will have to sometimes say, okay, well, have you considered this? Have you considered that? You know, sometimes you gotta buy a book or two. You know, you sometimes you gotta pay for something to send them to. If you see that they’re just going down a path that’s reckless financially. So yes, I did sit down with my, they went with me when I went to speaking engagements, all the things. [00:37:55] Joe: Jesse, is your, is your daughter a year old yet? [00:37:57] Jesse: Yeah, she’ll be 13 months here in a few days. Unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, [00:38:01] Joe: man, time flies. Yeah, it [00:38:02] Jesse: does. [00:38:03] Joe: You being a money nerd, like the rest of us, man, you must have already thought about this topic with your daughter. [00:38:07] Jesse: It was funny the other day. She got pretty nervous about, um, compounding interest. [00:38:12] Jesse: Some world. She got [00:38:13] Joe: nervous about compounding [00:38:13] Jesse: interest. She did. She’s trying to time the market. She’s trying to time the market. And, uh, no. As Dorothy was talking, I was thinking of the fact that, as I think most kids do, this is something I’ve learned that I didn’t know before. Like, most kids go through a stage where they, they like to throw food on the floor. [00:38:30] Jesse: It’s just something about like a little bit of control. It just sits fun. And so I’ll sit there, I’ll say, no, no. She just gives me the biggest smile when I say no. So I’m prepared for the fact that there might be some hard conversations in our future, right? Where she doesn’t really wanna listen to me. But no, it is this whole idea of railing the troops and getting your family behind you. [00:38:49] Jesse: So I was speaking this morning to a listener from Wisconsin, and we had such an interesting conversation. There’s a lot of outward signs of success, I would say, between her family, between her older in-laws, as it were, you know, some, some adults, some, some older adults in the family. This is her admission that, that just the lack of communication and the lack of transparency in terms of money, conversations, in terms of getting people on the same page in terms of what do the parents want, what do the grandparents want, what do the grandkids want? [00:39:18] Jesse: It’s causing a lot of friction there. And I just think it’s one of those things where even, you know, it’s possible to have the numbers looking great and still have a lot of discomfort in your financial situation, simply because people aren’t on the same page because you’re not talking about it. So I, I like this revolutionary idea of rallying the troops together. [00:39:35] Joe: I think Steve, what Jesse’s talking about goes back to lifestyle creep. Man, when my kids were teenagers, lifestyle creep, they wanted a, they wanted lifestyle creep in their life. Like, Hey, everybody else is doing the thing. So we should be able [00:39:48] Steve: to do that [00:39:48] Joe: too. [00:39:49] Steve: Well, it’s also different for us now because there is so much more consumerism than there was when we were growing up. [00:39:53] Steve: So the, the kids have more, I mean, there was no cell phones for kids back when we were in high school. There wasn’t, there was a bag phone for the car. I think that was about it for us. [00:40:01] Doug: No, but you had to have that Atari 2,600. And don’t try to tell me [00:40:04] Steve: you [00:40:04] Doug: didn’t, Steve. [00:40:05] Steve: Oh, you could read my mail, can’t you, Doug? [00:40:07] Steve: You [00:40:07] Doug: wanted that. Yeah. There’s always been no matter what your age. Yeah, they didn’t have all the stuff we have now, but there were things we had to have back then. There [00:40:14] Steve: was the thing. Yes. But that now with the kids having. What feels to them as more independence. There’s a revolutionary word for you. More independence in their life that they can go out and they can buy all these different things. [00:40:25] Steve: I mean, just look at the dollar stores and the malls and the, and the Walmarts and how many different things there are in there that you can choose from. Yeah. We didn’t have that type of selection back then. It’s just, it’s just compounded by 10 x to infinity. Well, I [00:40:37] Joe: think to your point, Steve, we’re just attacked by it more often, right? [00:40:39] Joe: Oh, the marketing is so much, so much more. Absolutely. Yeah. I don’t even have time, Doug, to, to focus on the Atari 2,600 ’cause there’s 800 other things that I see. I mean, I think about today I went into a bicycle shop to get my bike repaired and I saw that there were these, I. Headphones, these bone induction headphones that you can wear when you run that don’t have any cord. [00:40:58] Joe: And you know, I always worry about like the AirPods that fall out and immediately, you know what I did? I go, I want those immediately. Mm-hmm. I’m like, oh my God, I need those. How much are they? Oh, they’re only 150 bucks. And then I’m driving home. I’m like, what the hell am I doing? Why? What? [00:41:11] Doug: My headphones [00:41:11] Joe: work just [00:41:12] Doug: fine. [00:41:12] Doug: I don’t [00:41:12] Joe: exercise. What do I need to [00:41:14] Doug: eat? [00:41:16] Joe: And to prove it, I’m gonna grab another donut on the way home. Right? It is. It is all over us. Let’s do one a little bit geekier for our more advanced money nerve starting a tax revolt. Jesse, let’s go to you. Most people ignore tax efficiency. Uh, my peace here says until it’s too late. [00:41:32] Joe: Do you see people that really need maybe a tax revolution in their life, even if they’re a money geek? [00:41:38] Jesse: I love this one, especially just because so much of the American Revolution was about taxes, right? Dumping that tea, [00:41:44] Joe: going back to the tea [00:41:45] Jesse: station is theft. Okay. Do I see people who really need a tax revolution? [00:41:49] Jesse: Occasionally I’ll see someone, so probably like the furthest out on the revolutionary scale that I’ll see is someone who says, it’s like, well, yeah, I, I kind of wanted this new car. I was a little cash poor, so I did, I emptied out my, my 401k oh to go buy this car. And you’re like, oh my gosh. You know, you just like, they’re, they do something totally unaware of the tax impacts. [00:42:09] Jesse: So that’s like pretty far out there. But something that I think is, is relatively revolutionary that even the average investor might not think about is that. Kind of these pre-retirement and post-retirement moves where we can do some sort of like quote unquote tax arbitrage or we can think about the tax rates we’re paying now and the tax rates we might be paying in the future. [00:42:27] Jesse: And that ought to inform how we save money right now and then how we withdraw money in retirement. And it is, like you said, Joe, like it’s okay. Yeah, it’s a little more of an advanced topic. It’s not necessarily your personal finance 1 0 1 type topic, but those are the ways that we, we should be, you know, optimizing and saving dollars in the long run and letting more money compound. [00:42:46] Jesse: Uh, ’cause it makes a big difference. It makes a really big difference. [00:42:49] Joe: How do [00:42:49] Jesse: you think [00:42:49] Joe: about taxes, Dorothea and your plan? [00:42:52] Dorethia: I agree a hundred percent with Jesse, and I’m gonna tell you what my, my tax accountant friends, they try to add on pieces of their business that is tax planning. Mm-hmm. So helping people do exactly what Jesse is saying or or planning for those capital gains or things like that, do you know that is the hardest part of their business to build. [00:43:12] Dorethia: People just wanna go to their tax account to get their taxes done. Which is funny because [00:43:16] Joe: tax planning far, far bigger kaboom you can make [00:43:21] Dorethia: Exactly. Than just putting [00:43:22] Joe: the puzzle together later. [00:43:23] Dorethia: Exactly. And that is what they try to teach people. It’s like you owe this year. So let’s make sure you don’t owe next year, or you didn’t expect this capital gains tax. [00:43:34] Dorethia: Let’s make, what are you planning to, what di distributions do you plan for this year? How can we make sure you don’t owe that you can break even? Or if you do owe, you are prepared to pay the tax. But people are, they just really want what they want right then and there. So I see that end of it for people who are not, who don’t end up owing, but then the people who end up owing year after year, after year after year. [00:43:59] Dorethia: And it’s just like, are you kidding me? Like we we’re having these same conversations every year. It is, it is really mind boggling that you would not make a plan, especially okay, first year. Okay, fine. Year two. There’s gotta be a plan put in place so that you don’t continue to owe. [00:44:19] Joe: I remember, I remember when I was younger, just my friends always comparing texts, people against each other based on who got you the biggest refund. [00:44:28] Joe: Or tax software based on which one got me the biggest refund, which emphasized just cheating on your taxes. Like how That’s it, that’s all you’re doing is like, who’s gonna go further into the gray area for me to get a, a return? I don’t, I don’t need exactly. All of a sudden I have, have a business that I really don’t have. [00:44:44] Steve: Joe, if you wanna have a real revolution, what we should do is just pass the fair tax HR 25, it’ll wipe out like a quarter of our economy as far as all the complexities of financial tracking and advice and planning. Steve, you have been an advocate of this for, oh my gosh, over 10 years. Oh my gosh. It’s, it’s kind of like a VAT tax with a little bit of a, what they call aate, which provides people a little bit of money to compensate for the things they spend money on that we have been, and it’s just a sales tax. [00:45:09] Steve: It’s not gonna be all this complicated tax return stuff. We don’t have to worry about pre-tax, post-tax and withdrawal strategies as much. It’s just gonna be, it would be. Tremendous. But it would also be crazy to start. [00:45:21] Joe: Hmm. Maybe you need to talk to Doug about that being part of the 2028 platform when Doug runs for president. [00:45:26] Doug: I’m on it. I’m all in. Yeah. I’m still a fan. All right. Yes. [00:45:31] Joe: There’s the one. You don’t have the 20, 24 up either. I never got it. We were in the middle of a move, so for That’s right. You were, yeah. The the 2024 campaign where, where, where Doug came close to getting the 0.0, 0, 0, 0 1% that we were, that we were looking for. [00:45:47] Joe: Let’s look at just one more of these before we say goodbye. Storming the gates of financial literacy. I mean, all of us are in this camp, Jesse, but what’s one creator who’s not on this podcast today that you really like, that you would point people to, to go, go listen to this person or read their book or watch their video? [00:46:05] Joe: What’s one creator we can nod at? [00:46:08] Jesse: Ooh. Uh, that’s putting me on the spot. How do I pictures one? Um, I’m looking over at my bookshelf right now for inspiration. I know Warren Buffett’s not a creator, but as far as like pearls of wisdom, love Warren Buffet there go. But how about the No, that’s a good one. Yeah. [00:46:22] Jesse: Okay. I think Warren [00:46:22] Joe: Buffett does create content. I mean those, yeah. You know, I don’t think people go to the Berkshire Hathaway meeting to just hear what Berkshire Hathaway’s done in the last year. They’re going there for pearls of wisdom. Absolutely. And he [00:46:33] Jesse: also, coincidentally, was born in, uh, 1776. Full circle. [00:46:38] Joe: May or may not be true. I also like the quote, don’t believe everything you read on the internet, uh, Abraham Lincoln’s famous quote that said that that is true. Dort, who’s one creator that we should be paying attention to. [00:46:49] Dorethia: You know what, it’s so interesting that you asked me this today, um, and I told you that I am becoming a TikTok, uh, even more of a TikTok, uh, queen here. [00:46:58] Dorethia: I have been following a gentleman by the name of Money Coach Vince, and he is killing TikTok and Instagram and his advice and everything he’s giving is so good. He’s built an amazing community and I’m really enjoying following him now on, um, on social, on [00:47:13] Joe: social media. We gotta try to get Vince on the show too. [00:47:16] Dorethia: Oh, you definitely, definitely. That’s, [00:47:18] Joe: I I love it when I find new creators, Steve, who’s somebody else we should be paying attention to. [00:47:22] Steve: You know, they haven’t put out a lot of new content in the financial space recently, but I think you can just go back and just absorb a whole bunch of great advice and it’s comforting to listen to them. [00:47:31] Steve: It’s talent. And Ty McNeely from his and her money. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love them. They’re just doing good stuff all around. Even if it’s not current on YouTube. Just good people doing good stuff for And [00:47:39] Joe: Evergreen advice. Yeah. I mean, mean, just the stuff they talked about was so evergreen. They’re, they’re so inspirational. [00:47:45] Joe: The way that they sold so much of their stuff and gamified it. And also by the way, two people on totally different money trajectories and learning to come together, you know, and be a team. [00:47:55] Steve: Yep. [00:47:56] Joe: Yeah. [00:47:56] Steve: Good stuff. Truly are. One [00:47:57] Joe: link. Tell those people, Doug, you got one too. [00:47:59] Doug: Yeah, I think everybody should listen to the Neighbor Doug show. [00:48:02] Doug: I mean, that’s, I can’t believe that didn’t get, wow. [00:48:04] Joe: Not on this call. Mentioned that was Doug’s definition right there. If not on, definitely not on this call. Is season two coming? Is this breakthrough information breaking news? It’s oh, oh man. Alright. Uh, that’s going to do it for today. The good news is everybody who’s part of the Stacky Benjamin Show today, all of our contributors, they’ve got great stuff going where they are. [00:48:24] Joe: Dorothea, what’s some of the goodness you’re making on social media and how do people follow what you’re up to? [00:48:29] Dorethia: Yes, please, please, please follow. I am Dorothy on TikTok. I am doing a lot there. Um, TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram are my main spots. You can find me talking all things personal finance and business coaching. [00:48:42] Joe: Just straight shooter and always love your advice. Thank you. If anybody is incredibly blunt but has great velvet on the hammer, it’s Dorothea Kelly, like, just amazing. Uh, super happy you were back with us. Jesse, what’s going on at the. Personal finance for Long-Term Investors Podcast. [00:49:03] Jesse: Doug, do you have any comments before I chime in there? [00:49:05] Jesse: Joe, it [00:49:05] Doug: is becoming my favorite name for any podcast. First of all, it’s, it’s genius for search engine optimization, right? I mean, it’s just, it says what it is. You’re, you’re like, I want find a show that’s a, for personal finance. I’m a long-term investor. Bam. It’s in your face, but don’t forget, it’s also the Ply podcast. [00:49:26] Doug: Oh, you look at the acronym. It’s P Fly Baby. [00:49:30] Jesse: P Fly [00:49:31] Doug: Ply. How long did it take Doug to come up with that, Jesse? I mean, we’ve been doing this for, how long did that [00:49:34] bit: take you, Doug? [00:49:35] Doug: That was, uh, a matter of seconds over, uh, over some text that fun text that Jesse and I add. Yeah. But after [00:49:41] Joe: like six months, I mean, we’ve been trying to figure this out for six months, helping Jesse come up with the, I, I’m [00:49:46] Doug: doing some marketing consulting forum. [00:49:49] Doug: We also came up with, uh, what else did we come up with the. Flit. Fault. Fault. Fault. Faulty. Faulty. It’s your fault. It’s all your fault. That’s what we came up with. PFLT. [00:50:00] Jesse: Uh, it was some great names, but I, I’ll take p Fly also, I just didn’t wanna go back because, uh, velvet on the Hammer was my nickname in college. [00:50:07] Jesse: Joe. I don’t know how you knew that, but, uh, what’s going on? Are you signing [00:50:12] Joe: at the Dorothea? Great. That’s a great nickname. [00:50:15] Doug: Funny, I was the Piston and then I never understood that. The Pi, I don’t, I still don’t get it. [00:50:23] Jesse: Oh, that is funny. What do we have going on over on the podcast? Well, we’re coming off a great month of June, another all timer of a month, and, uh, just recently released an ode to Warren Buffett. [00:50:33] Jesse: It’s why he was on my mind. I did an episode all about some of Warren’s best wisdom. And then, uh, later on in July, I think we have a special bonus episode, and I won’t tell you why it’s special. And then, uh, Peter Lazaroff is joining us soon too. And if you don’t know Peter, he’s a phenomenal, uh, voice in the investing world and, and well worth looking into. [00:50:51] Joe: We’re good friends with Peter and that’s another guy that we need to have back on like Dorothea. We just don’t get to talk to Peter enough. Steve, thank you. So it’s so good to have you on this side of the microphone instead of the other side. We never talk. I know, right? There’s a lot of creators that listen to the show and a lot of the time they are either looking for good editing help or they are thinking about maybe getting into editing and you A help people figure out how to edit their stuff. [00:51:19] Joe: But B, you also counsel people that are doing the thing that you do. [00:51:22] Steve: Yeah, I’ve got a community Podcasters club on Facebook. That’s where we all just hang out and talk about the post-production stuff of podcasting, all about the editing and how we serve our clients. And then I have the podcast editor [email protected] where I teach people how to become podcast editors by trade and, and for people who are listening who aren’t interested in any of that stuff but are looking for someone, I can connect you with editors ’cause I’ve got this great community. [00:51:45] Steve: Like I said, I. So if they’re looking for somebody, I’ve got a great way to get them in front of hundreds of people without actually walking into a room and raising your hand saying, Hey, I’m looking for an editor. You don’t wanna do that. So come see [email protected] for that. And we’ll link [00:51:57] Joe: to Dorothea’s work. [00:51:59] Joe: Jesse’s work, and Steve’s work in our show notes. Uh, uh, Doug, I wish Steve was a giver. If Steve is a little bit of a giver, Doug, I think he’d be like the perfect human. [00:52:07] Doug: Yeah. He just doesn’t ever stop thinking about Steve though. I mean, it’s just, it’s really hard when you’re as self-focused as he is, [00:52:15] Joe: he’s, I don’t know how many more selfless individuals there are than the amazing Steve Stewart. [00:52:20] Joe: All right. That’s gonna do it for today. Doug, bring it home for us, man. What should we have learned on today’s show? [00:52:25] Doug: Well, Joe, here’s what’s stacked up on our to-do list for today. First, take some advice from Dorothea. If you’re lonely and bored, just stop paying your bills. You’ll have people calling you nonstop. [00:52:37] Doug: They’ll play great practical jokes like moving your car on you in the middle of the night. Sometimes you’ll even come over and just knock on your front door. It’s a great way to get some friends. Second, don’t forget what Steve Stewart recommended. One way to ensure success is to draw a picture of what you want your future to look like. [00:52:56] Doug: I’ve seen his self-portrait, and it looks surprisingly like Scrooge McDuck swimming in gold coins. But the big lesson, don’t try to change Joe’s mom’s ringtone to Yankee Doodle, or she’ll change your ringtone to something like this. [00:53:11] Joe: Oh my God, I forgot to pull it off. [00:53:13] Doug: Dude, you had one job. [00:53:17] Joe: Hold [00:53:17] Doug: on, Steve, [00:53:18] Joe: we’re gonna [00:53:18] Doug: fix [00:53:19] Joe: this in post. [00:53:20] Steve: Does Doug get to start over again? [00:53:21] Joe: This is truly how this Yeah, that’s right. We’re gonna take it from the top, everybody. All right, here we go. [00:53:35] Doug: That was disappointing. [00:53:40] Doug: That is good when you gotta wait for it. Can we roll with the credits? What the hell? Oh, what the hell? Thanks to Dorothea Kelly for joining us today. You’ll find Dorothea’s book. Hashtag money chat and links to her coaching, speaking, and [email protected]. We’ll also include, don’t don’t forget to follow her on social. [00:54:00] Doug: We’ll do that too. Yeah, do all of the things. We’ll also include links in our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. Thanks to Steve Stewart for hanging out with us today. You’ll find Steve not only behind the scenes here, but also coaching others on how to edit podcasts. You can find [email protected]. [00:54:19] Doug: See, there’s that selfish. He’s so self-focused. It’s all about me, me, me. It’s a perfect domain for Steve Stewart. Thanks also to the Jesse Kramer for joining us. Today. You’ll find his podcast, personal Finance for Long-Term Investors. Oh, as you know, I like to call it The Ply, wherever you find the Finest Podcasts. [00:54:40] Doug: This show is the Property of SP podcasts, LLC, copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe gets some help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. [00:55:01] Doug: Come say hello. Oh yeah, and before I go. Not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s Neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:56:18] Joe: Welcome to the after show. This is the part of the show that doesn’t exist. What happens in the after show stays in the after show. It is independent state in America. And that means that, uh, well there are some, there, there’s some hilarious stuff that comedians Doug have done on social media. I think about every year we’ve played that. [00:56:39] Joe: Awesome. Stephen Marchant. Oh yeah. Piece about if the United States was still under British rule, but let’s focus on this one now. This is a shortened clip of comedian Nate Bur gaze on C at live. I shortened it. Just to take out this. You’re gonna hear some cuts. They took out the laughter parts, but I think everybody will understand where this is headed. [00:57:01] Jesse: Is there any chance we will win this war? [00:57:04] bit: Of course, I am fearful as well, but we will live through the battle ahead because we fight to control our own destiny, to create our own nation and to do our own thing with the English language. One day our great nation will have a word for the number 12. We shall call it a dozen. [00:57:30] bit: And what other numbers will we have a word for? None. Only 12 shall have its own word because we are free men. And we’ll be free to spell some words two different ways. Which words, sir? Donut and the name Jeff. What are the two ways to spell Jeff sir? The short way with a J and the stupid way with a G. [00:57:59] Joe: So many inconsistencies. [00:58:01] Joe: That made me wonder. Are there any financial inconsistencies that you guys can think of? Like if, if George Washington is going across the Delaware and, uh, Dorothea, you were telling us about the future, what’s one thing in 2025 that people in 1776 might not have understood? [00:58:20] Dorethia: I think it’s the fact that you can literally bankrupt your way out of gambling debt, but not your student loans. [00:58:27] Dorethia: Like why not? So we just need to gamble [00:58:32] Joe: more [00:58:33] Dorethia: apparently. Yes. Pay off our student loans clearly. [00:58:37] Joe: Why is that, Jesse? Why can we just, you know, get outta gambling debt, debit, not student loans. [00:58:42] Jesse: Why is it, I mean, isn’t that, um, part of the. The legislation around student loans themselves? I mean, is that, is that what you’re asking, Joe? [00:58:48] Jesse: Or are you, are you looking for a logical answer? ’cause I’m not sure there really is one. I’m just gonna [00:58:52] Joe: say the neighbor gaze. Nobody knows. [00:58:54] Jesse: Oh, [00:58:57] Dorethia: Jesse is ready. Okay. Jesse has the answers. Do you understand? The legislation says that’s right. Yeah. I don’t really, I’m [00:59:03] Jesse: not really one for jokes. The assignment is to be funny. [00:59:08] Joe: I, I, I think it’s just the way the rules work, Joe. Yeah. Are you serious, Joe? Set up the rule that way. Yeah, that is, that is strange. All right, Steve, you’re, uh, George Washington going across the Delaware. What’s a financial inconsistency that people might see in the future? [00:59:27] Steve: I, I was reminded from the video intro that you have at the beginning of the live streams here, Joe, John, hope Bryant says credit is money. [00:59:35] Steve: That’s the misconception I. Credit is money. [00:59:38] Joe: Yeah. Wait, we we’re gonna refer to this as our money, and yet it’s not our money. Right. Speaking of credit, one of my favorite ones is just the credit score. Like we’re going to judge people on a scale. Oh, what’s that scale gonna be? One to 10? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. [00:59:54] Joe: It’s gonna be between 308 50. Yeah. Right. Why is that? I don’t know. Right. Do it [01:00:00] Doug: differently. [01:00:01] Joe: We [01:00:01] Doug: just made this up. Yeah. Not even one to a hundred. And when you’re debt free, your score will go down. [01:00:06] Steve: Yep. Absolutely. That’s another inconsistency right there. Yes. If you’re good with money and you don’t borrow any, you’re credit worthy. [01:00:12] Steve: Except that they can’t tell because you have nothing to base that history on. [01:00:15] Joe: Yep. Yeah. Why does that happen, Jesse? Why does that happen? [01:00:19] Jesse: Nobody knows. There you [01:00:21] Dorethia: go. I’m like, let’s help. We gotta, we gotta shoot Jesse the little cheat note. I know. [01:00:29] Joe: I guess so. Uh, all right, Jesse, uh, you’re up, man. What’s another financial inconsistency? [01:00:36] Joe: George Washington and Company might have foreseen. [01:00:39] Jesse: The one that I thought of is that, you know, we’re gonna have a certain cohort of laborers who aren’t gonna be paid by their employers. I. But instead, uh, their employers are gonna be allowed to underpay them so that customers can make up the difference. [01:00:54] Jesse: And I’m talking about tipping. Tipping. And I know this sounds a lot like the, the opening scene of, what’s that one tar, is it Reservoir Dogs? I think that Tarantino movie. [01:01:02] Doug: Yeah. [01:01:02] Jesse: Where? [01:01:03] Doug: Oh, so good. Steve [01:01:04] Jesse: BMI’s character, Mr. Pink, whoever doesn’t wanna tip [01:01:06] Doug: Oh, so good. But [01:01:07] Jesse: yes, tipping. I get it. And I do tip and I, I try to tip well because I understand these people are working for tips, but man, I do not understand tipping culture. [01:01:17] Dorethia: Yeah. In America. Because in Paris, in Paris, in France, they pay their people well and they don’t, they don’t look for your tips. That’s right. [01:01:25] Joe: We were in Greece and they said that you can tip, but they also were sure to let you know that people there get paid a living wage. [01:01:33] Dorethia: Yes. Same thing in Paris. Yeah. [01:01:34] Dorethia: Told us the same thing. Yep. Yeah. [01:01:36] Joe: All right, Doug, you got the last one. What’s another, uh, George Washington Financial inconsistency? Uh, [01:01:42] Doug: you know, I guess, I mean, this just happened to me not too long ago, so it occurred to me that, uh, nickels are worthless. I mean, sure, they’ll, like, you wanna buy a gumball, they’ll take ’em, but try to pay your car payment with nickels. [01:01:55] Doug: Suddenly they’re worthless. Nobody wants them. And, and why is that, Jesse? [01:02:00] Jesse: Nobody knows [01:02:03] Dorethia: There you.
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