Explore how to score big with creative income strategies with us! Today, we’ll dive into an in-depth case study on private equity in professional sports teams and discover how to use similar strategies to increase your wealth growth. You’ll learn actionable advice on maximizing revenue sources, including tactics like Roth IRA conversions, covered calls, and creative investments like drop shipping during retirement and car rentals. We’ll share a host of diversified financial insights that can help optimize your assets…all while having a bit of fun along the way.
Later, catch our hilarious TikTok minute where we highlight a woman’s misguided attempt to buy quarters on Amazon. In the ‘Better Call Saul’ segment, we tackle a listener’s question about retirement planning, providing practical tips that can be applied to everyday life.
Of course, you don’t want to miss Doug’s trivia segment, where you’ll gain intriguing knowledge, like the anniversary of Marie Antoinette’s last day and the history of Cutco knives. Hopefully, you’ll walk away with both valuable takeaways and a smile.
Run of Show:
- Unexpected Shopping Spree
- Welcome to the Stacking Benjamin Show
- Money Urologists and Case Analysis
- The Value of Cash Payments
- Inflation and Economic Insights
- Private Equity in Professional Sports
- Leveraging Personal Finances
- Creative Income Streams
- Maximizing Investment Returns
- Flexibility in Financial Planning
- Mark Cuban’s Business Insights
- Real Estate Ventures and Lessons
- The TikTok Minute: Math Mishap
- Trivia Time with Doug
- Roth Conversion Strategies
- Show Wrap-Up and Listener Review
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Our TikTok Minute
Our Headline
Doug’s Trivia
- What free guarantee does Cutco offer?
Better call Saul…Sehy & OG
- Stacker Robert called into the whole gang with a question about Roth conversions as he and his wife approach RMD age in 13 years, and whether it makes sense to seek the professional help of a CPA or not.
Have a question for the show?
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Other Mentions
Join Us Friday!
Tune in on Friday when we contemplate if the key to a happy retirement is a great tax strategy and nerd out on taxes. Two special guests join Doc G on the roundtable: CFP Deb Meyer from the Beyond Budgets podcast and CFP Sean Mullaney, the guy behind the FI Tax Guy YouTube Channel.
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Miss our last show? Listen here: Ben Orlin Reveals the Fun Side of Math! (SB1587)
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] bit: Hello, honey, I’m at the mall now and I found this beautiful leather coat. It’s only a thousand. Can I get it? Well, sure if you like it that much. Okay. Um, I also stopped by the Mercedes dealership and saw the new model. You know, the one I really like. How much? 120. Well at that price, I want to put all the options. [00:00:24] Great. Oh, and, and one more thing. The house we wanted last year back on the market, they’re, they’re asking 1.5. We’ll make them an offer, but come in at, uh, 1.4. Okay? I love you, baby. I love you too. Okay, bye. Um, does anybody know whose phone this is? [00:00:54] Doug: Live from Joe’s mom’s basement. It’s the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:01:10] Joe’s mom’s neighbor Doug. And how’s your stream of income? Today we are money urologists because we are diving into a case analysis of all things professional sports teams, to discover how you might be able to grow your stack more quickly. And that’s not all. Later in the show, we’ll share a cautionary TikTok minute about arbitrage. [00:01:33] Maybe it makes sense to look at more than just the simple math. And of course, we’ve got your back. We’ll answer a question from one stacker who thought I’d better call Saul? See, hi and OG and because it’s Wednesday and you are my favorite, you know what I’ll do? I’ll share some amazing trivia. You’re welcome. [00:01:53] And now two guys who will talk about it till they’re blue in the face. It’s Joe, oh and O. [00:02:07] Joe: Hey there, stackers. Welcome to uh, phrases. My mom says. For the Wind podcast, I’m Joe Saul Sea. Hi. And uh, your mom doesn’t say talk about it till you’re blue in the face. I thought you were talking about money urologist. Like your mom talks [00:02:20] Doug: about [00:02:20] Joe: urology. [00:02:21] Doug: No, she, [00:02:22] Joe: she does not. [00:02:23] OG: Joe’s mom’s favorite phrase is you’ll go blind [00:02:28] Joe: Joseph from listening to too many podcasts. [00:02:31] OG: Yes, that’s exactly why, [00:02:32] Joe: especially podcasts where we’re going to dive into a case study. og, you ready for a case study Wednesday? [00:02:41] OG: What are you doing? That was me saying yes [00:02:43] Joe: with my hands. Oh, [00:02:45] Doug: this is an audio podcast. I thought that’s what you were like a faith healer and you were warming your hands up to place them. [00:02:51] I mean, yeah, and feel the episode that’s. Is that not it? Is that not what you do? Case [00:02:55] Joe: study where you don’t leg hands on your money does not actually do anything to your money. Oh, okay. Let’s see if this works. Nope, if this works and it’s gone. And it turns out we learn on Wednesday that money does not actually grow on trees. [00:03:07] We planted it all during the episode and absolutely nothing. Nothing happened. I wonder seriously, OG like kids today. How about that? There’s a phrase where mom says kids today. Oh, for God’s [00:03:18] Doug: sakes. [00:03:19] Joe: Kids today, like no money changing hands ever. Like remember going places with your parents and they’d write a check? [00:03:27] Doug: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. [00:03:27] Joe: Like back in the stone age, they would write checks for stuff and you’d sit there at the grocery store while they’re writing a check or even taking cash outta their wallet. You ever cash in cash in your wallet anymore? [00:03:39] Doug: I just paid at a restaurant yesterday in cash. And uh, I will tell you that it changes how you. [00:03:47] Feel about what you just paid for when you see the money in your hand. We two salads and two iced teas. 50 bucks after tip. And when you lay, when you lay two twenties and a 10 on the table, you’re like, holy crap. I just paid $50 for two salads and two ice teas. [00:04:06] OG: A little different than just grabbing your iPhone and going, [00:04:08] Doug: ding. [00:04:08] Yeah, exactly. That’s my point. Versus being in Vegas and it’s like nothing’s real and you just pull out the plastic. It did. It did make me pause and have that boomer moment. Why are things so expensive? [00:04:20] Joe: But there is some truth. I saw a headline a few weeks ago that the inflation at restaurants. Far worse than the inflation at the grocery store. [00:04:28] Yeah. Over the past, like eight months far away. Sure. Saw that [00:04:30] OG: too. [00:04:31] Joe: Oh it is. It is absolutely horrible. You go to, the food costs [00:04:34] OG: in general are outpacing, I mean the whole CPI thing, you know, little asterisk next to CPI is excluding Oh, right. Food and. Energy. [00:04:45] Doug: Right? Why didn’t you just get bubbles on your screen? [00:04:48] This is [00:04:48] OG: how much the average person’s lifestyle is increasing, excluding the two most important things that they need to survive, [00:04:54] Joe: right? There should be an asterisk after consumer price index, like a little asterisk, and you go down to the bottom of the page and it says, this statistic is a joke. Yeah. It totally [00:05:03] OG: should. [00:05:04] Somebody told us once, and I don’t remember who, but mentioned why that is, to the naked eye. It seems pretty silly, doesn’t it? It’s like, you know, I’m sure there’s some economic reason of, you know, back in OT four when they’ve thought this stuff up. Some economist was like, this is why we wanna do it this way. [00:05:20] But to the lay person who reads that and sees that, it sounds really stupid. [00:05:24] Joe: It was back in the nineties. ’cause one of my favorite books on economics is, uh, Jim Rogers and it was called, uh, adventure Tourist. And the year 2000, he goes around the world and just talks about the economies in different worlds. [00:05:38] And what I love about the book, og, to your point, is he says a bunch of stuff about the United States that had he opened the book with it. I wouldn’t have believed it, but after he goes and talks about what’s going on in Africa, what’s going on in Russia, what’s going on in China at that time, and then he comes Australia and he comes all the way back to the US and then he talks about the US after I already proves the point of all these other places. [00:06:03] Yeah. He’s like, I was gone for a year and a half, I believe was the number. Mm-Hmm. But he was gone for some fairly significant length of time. He goes, inflation was zero during that time. What was amazing was the price of everything I had bought before I left had gone up significantly, [00:06:20] Doug: but what they were reporting was zero. [00:06:22] Joe: Yeah, yeah. Inflation during the time he was gone was nothing or next to nothing. Yeah. And yet everything, everything went up in price and uh, he had a whole diatribe about that kind of a data book, but still really interesting. Look at it sounds like a great book actually. I’m interested in that. Yeah, really interesting. [00:06:39] Look, I’d love to go back and read it because all the examples are dated, but it was funny back in 2000, he’s like, everybody’s worried about Russia. You know, who you would need to be worried about China. Hmm. And of course, look at the last 24 years I. China just made some significant inroads, I would say, uh, the US economy. [00:06:57] But anyway, welcome to economics for the Win. We’re not even talking economics today and we’re off on that. We’ve got a great case study. We’re gonna talk about professional sports teams and what that can teach us sweet about our own money. And even if you’re not a sports fan, this is not gonna be so much about the team as it is about the team ownership, the team. [00:07:17] The team we all own our day-to-Day lives. So imagine you own your day-to-Day life. How are you gonna do it better? Before we get to that though, we have some sponsors who make sure this stays free. We’re gonna hear from them and then we’re gonna be off and running. Let’s jump into it. It’s Case Analysis Day this Wednesday. [00:07:41] The idea for this segment came from Investment News, and this is a piece that is written by Chris Brubaker and Miranda Roberts. It’s titled, welcome to the Big Leagues, the Rise of Private Equity in Professional Sports. The piece begins as the business landscape of professional sports continues to evolve at a rapid pace, a new player has emerged. [00:08:06] From quiet observer to potential key figure private equity is rewriting the playbook for sports investment in real time. The last 20 years have seen what was once an exclusive industry dominated by ultra wealthy individuals become a promising land of opportunity for institutional investors, and with financial burdens continuing them out within the world of professional sports. [00:08:27] The two seem to have struck a mutually beneficial relationship. Guys, what this piece gets into is, is this, you know. I’m always interested in private equity because private equity goes into an area housing as an example, and they go, you know what, if we buy a bunch of houses in a town and we rent those houses out, we could probably make a bunch more money. [00:08:54] And these are people that are consistently, you know, we have Ben Orland on Mondays. People consistently doing the math going, oh. There’s an opportunity here. I know there’s a lawsuit against a private equity company that not only in Texarkana, but in a lot of cities across America, went into these little small city hospitals and basically extracted all the value out of the hospital, found all the money, and now there’s an investigation going on about these hospitals. [00:09:22] ARS in Texarkana just went bankrupt, but private equity has this way, OG of finding. Some area of the economy and going, there’s an opportunity here that nobody saw. And when you look at professional sports, you have these people that are ultra wealthy individuals and they kind of have the sports team as this just piece on their mantle, right? [00:09:44] I own the sports team and it’s this thing that’s pretty cool. And private equity goes, oh, you know what we could do? We could make the merchandise sell more. We could build housing around the stadium, make the stadium beautiful, and build housing around sta How cool would it be to have housing in or right near the stadium? [00:10:03] We, we could put hotels, [00:10:04] OG: traffic would be amazing. That would be awesome. Right, right. I can’t wait to try to go to Walmart on a Cowboys game. [00:10:10] Joe: You look at the new development between Jerry’s house as an example and, uh, the new stadium and where the Rangers play. Mm-Hmm. They now have this whole sports plex. [00:10:20] Yeah. Between the two that is. Bars, nightclubs, restaurants, this whole e even on days when there aren’t games, you can stay at the Lowe’s Hotel there. Right. They’re building a casino there, like private equity, OG looking at, we’ll see all of the, what’s that? [00:10:36] OG: I said we’ll see about the casino. Oh, really? [00:10:38] Small little issue about the uh, Texas State constitution. But they just remedy that little problem and then, then there’ll be a casino. Sure. That’s wild. Isn’t there slated to be a casino there? I mean, there’s slated to be casinos everywhere. As soon as it gets, as soon as it gets taken out of the, I mean, I’m gonna start one. [00:10:55] I, [00:10:57] Joe: I, I did not, I did not know that. And I thought that was gonna be a casino on the first floor. Like it’s already. Practically built [00:11:04] OG: betting on the future, I think. [00:11:05] Doug: Wow. Yeah. I think that’s OGs point is they just need to, uh, have the right lunch meeting with the right person and that casino’s opening its doors. [00:11:12] Joe: Yep. Well, so people wonder, I wanna get away from the casino part, but what I do wanna talk about is this, look how private equity goes into every piece of any business and goes, is there an opportunity here? And it feels to me, OG, that if we did that in our own lives, if we need more money. I’m looking for a way to improve the revenue line without creating a lot of new stuff. [00:11:37] Is there already money in my day-to-Day activities that I haven’t mine yet? [00:11:42] OG: This is an interesting topic. Private equity gets a really bad wrap and I think pro probably rightly so, honestly, because a lot of the way that. The returns are, are manufactured, has to do with leverage. It’s just like doing the calculation of real estate investing. [00:12:00] It’s like real estate investing works really well when the leverage factor is exactly right and you some and somebody else pays your cash flow. I. Then it works magically and you go, I put 50 grand down on this $300,000 house and my $300,000 house went up 10% last year in value. I made 30 grand on 50,000. [00:12:19] Look at that. That’s a 60% RO. I beat that. It’s like because, because ’cause [00:12:24] Joe: I leveraged my 50 into half a million dollars. Yeah, exactly. Of somebody else’s money. And I got a renter in there that covered the monthly cost of all the interest that I had to pay to the third party. Right. [00:12:34] OG: Right, and so the same thing is true with a lot, a lot, and this is a broad brush stroke. [00:12:38] There’s the same thing is true with a lot of the private equity deals, but I think what you’re focusing on is more of the. Value identification, and I think that’s a good place to talk about it because yeah, we could, we could extract a lot of value out of our lives too, if we just levered the hell out of ourselves. [00:12:54] You know? It’s like, is your house almost paid off? Go get another mortgage. Perfect. Did you need to buy a, you know, is that your kid at college? Borrow the money. You know, there’s, that’s to do it. That’s [00:13:03] Joe: not, and that’s not the hard part. Right. I mean, going down to the bank, a bank will listen. Banks will make sure that you screw yourself completely. [00:13:10] OG: Yeah. [00:13:10] Joe: With leverage. The hard part of it is not the levering. It’s coming up with the income stream to offset the lever. [00:13:17] OG: Yeah. And I think when you, what was the study? What, what was the thing? The average millionaire has four sources of income or something like that. Yeah. Remember who said that? I don’t remember who said that. [00:13:27] And it doesn’t have to be a lot, right? If, if there’s something that you do, there’s something that I do that I really like doing and it pays, I would do it if it didn’t pay, but it happens to pay, you know, not a ton, but enough to take care of. Holiday spending and travel and you know, that sort of thing. [00:13:45] Like, like I don’t have to think about that line item on my budget because one of my hobbies has a revenue source attached to it. That covers some of those things. One of the things that immediately pops in my mind is just the stuff that I’ve done, which is, is there something that you’re doing already that can turn into something that you’re creating value for other people and. [00:14:07] Then somehow you, you know, you get paid for that. [00:14:10] Joe: We have a family friend I saw this weekend, hadn’t seen him in a long time. He goes out to his truck while he’s at mom’s house and he’s just opens up the back of the truck. He’s got a laptop out and I’m like, what are you doing? He goes, oh, I just got a drop ship. [00:14:23] A couple things. This guy OG, is retired. He worked in receiving his entire life. So he is watching packages come in and out. Yeah. So first of all, he didn’t work specifically in this industry that he’s now involved in, but it doesn’t scare him because he was kind of tangentially involved already in this area. [00:14:41] So for him, the barrier to entry didn’t seem hard. He found a product during his retirement. I won’t share what the product is ’cause I don’t want to kill his competitive advantage, but he found a product. He ordered a bunch of it. He now, while he is just traveling around during his retirement, visiting, you know, people like my mom, he’s visiting all these old family friends. [00:15:04] He just drop ships, a couple things from where he is and, and I asked him, how much does he make doing that? He’s like, I generally drop ship. I have to drop ship about four or five days a week. He goes, but now he’s got all these boxes. He’s got the stuff, throws it in the box, put the wrapper around it, slaps the label on it. [00:15:21] He’s got this cool little label maker that hooks up to his laptop that he can use anywhere, slaps the label on. It goes by a post office before he leaves town. He said he triples his money. The money that he, that he has into it. He didn’t tell me how much money he has into it. Yeah. But I would guess that the product probably retails for around a hundred bucks. [00:15:42] This dude’s out making $66 a day in his spare time four days a week. Maybe pay him for two salads at the place. Doug goes to lunch, apparently [00:15:52] OG: then he got the double chicken, can afford the double chicken salad. [00:15:55] Joe: But just this little thing kind of fuels his pocket money. og. I mean, it’s money that doesn’t have to come out of his investment account. [00:16:02] And you know what? I think he really enjoys doing it during his retirement. [00:16:05] OG: Yeah. There’s so much opportunity in the stuff that you already enjoy doing to find something that is value creation for somebody else. That’s really what you’re trying to do. It’s like, is this valuable to somebody else and would they pay for it? [00:16:19] Joe: I had a friend who just, uh, she just started renting her car out on, uh, Turo. Would you rent your car? [00:16:24] OG: Never in a million years. [00:16:25] Joe: God no. It’s so funny. I know what friends of mine, I’m, I’m pretty decent to rental cars, but I know what other people do to rental cars. [00:16:32] OG: Hold on. Not Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. [00:16:33] Time out. [00:16:34] Joe: Yeah, we’re pausing. The [00:16:35] Doug: episode time right [00:16:35] OG: here says the guy who ripped the seat out of a rental car, the last rental car. Oh my bad. Had to hire a mechanic to take the seat out and drop. Dropped it back off at National and went. Yeah guys, I think all the bolts are somewhere in there, but we got a plane to catch. [00:16:51] So best wishes y’all, I [00:16:54] Doug: think the floorboards must have rusted out on this 2024 Malibu. [00:17:00] OG: Geez Louise. I’m pretty good rental cars. Okay, you’re right. I have done some stuff to a, to a rental car. It’s like the Jerry Seinfeld. Oh yeah, I’m gonna need the insurance. And that’s not [00:17:09] Joe: counting bodily fluids easy, just because we had to take the the passenger seat out at. [00:17:14] Four in the morning does not mean I was bad to the rental car. [00:17:17] OG: You did it with Grace. [00:17:18] Joe: That’s right. Yeah. It’s lovingly [00:17:20] OG: and Yeah. Took it outta the rental car. Best [00:17:22] Doug: intentions. Mm-Hmm. [00:17:23] Joe: But also, I mean, you know, over on our old real estate show, we had some real estate professionals all get get together and we did a March Madness style. [00:17:32] Best way for somebody brand new to real estate to get into real estate. You know what the number one thing was? Was house hacking. Yeah. Take part of your house, take a, take a spare bedroom and rent it out. Get a roommate and rent it out. I think, uh, again, there’s no way I would do that now at, at this point in my life. [00:17:48] But back when I needed money, a lot of money, there were two things that I did during my I need money years one was really stupid and, and the stupid one was I didn’t pay any attention to my expense line at all. I just thought if I keep making more money, [00:18:01] Doug: yeah, [00:18:02] Joe: life will get better. And that is a total lie if you never keep track of the bottom line. [00:18:06] No matter how much money I made, I spent that and more. I can [00:18:09] OG: attest to that. [00:18:10] Joe: Yeah, I would just mess that up. But the thing I did really well, og, and I think you did really well too, I always knew how to make more money. I. I would always find a way to make more money. I remember going out when I really needed Bunny and I had a friend that, that his family had a paper route and I took part of their paper route because I was not doing anything but sleeping at four o’clock in the morning and I’m like, okay, I’ll take on a fourth job for a while ’cause I can make more money. [00:18:37] But Airbnb opportunities, [00:18:39] OG: again, I don’t know that I would do that right this minute, but if push comes to shove, but back [00:18:44] Joe: when you needed money, [00:18:45] OG: I. When you really needed [00:18:46] Joe: money. [00:18:46] OG: I remember before I was married in one apartment, I had a, a roommate and I had another apartment where I didn’t, the first apartment that I had, that I had a roommate, there were two bedrooms and one was clearly the, the bigger of the two, and then one was the smaller of the two. [00:19:00] And you know, I was like, oh, I get the bigger one. I found the apartment. He is like, all right, whatever. You can pay 50% more than me then, you know, like, I don’t care. I look back at that, I go, how? How you doing it? Sleeping? Like who gives a crap how big your bedroom is? You have this huge apartment that you’re sharing with one guy who works just as much as you do. [00:19:18] And then the second time and then, and then when I got an apartment by myself, I think back on that and go, why the hell was I living by myself? You know? I mean, I know why I did it. ’cause I was like, I’m gonna get married. I should probably have like one apartment by myself once. Yeah. But in the money aspect of it, it’s like it would’ve been way better to have a roommate and. [00:19:34] Spend $200 a month on rent instead of five 50 or whatever it was, you know, or 400. I don’t even, I think if you’re looking at, from a cashflow standpoint, a lot of times people feel like there’s, there’s some line items that you can’t touch, right? There’s some things that like, well, I can’t, everything has to be on the table. [00:19:54] And if you look at it fresh with like everything counts on this table, everything is available for change. You start identifying opportunities. You know, we talked a little bit ago about insurance costs and how they’re radically changing and depending on where you live, there’s a bunch of limitations. [00:20:10] Now with policies and you know, all this other sort of stuff, right? The, the rates are increasing. Maybe you have to downshift your car or, you know, change your vehicle so that the insurance is a little bit less expensive. Maybe you have to have a little higher deductible to lower that premium. So that that part of it’s a little bit more affordable. [00:20:29] You don’t need to have the brand new car, just maybe you have to trade it in, like, you know what I mean? Like, you people, people look at those things and go, well, I can’t do that. That’s a, that’s a new car. I just got that. It’s like, well, it counts. Everything on this list counts. Your housing, your food, your, all of these things are really important. [00:20:44] Joe: That’s what I love about this, because back when stadiums were being redone, baseball, football stadiums. Yeah. Remember the big thing, the old stadiums going away. I remember this. Being in Detroit with Tiger Stadium, we need a new stadium. You know why? ’cause we need more suites. We need more luxury boxes. [00:21:01] We need places where people can hand us more money. Right now, that seems. Ridiculous and not ridiculous because having sweets are stupid. That now OG feels like table stakes now. You go see a ranger game in Dallas, the venture capital people behind all this stuff are like, we want people to come two hours early. [00:21:21] I. Have dinner at the park ahead of time at a nice restaurant. Mm-Hmm. [00:21:25] Doug: And [00:21:25] Joe: then stay two hours after three hours, four hours after. We’re gonna have bands out there after where we’re gonna, we’re gonna entice people to come early and stay late. So not only are they getting the money from the luxury box, well that’s nothing now from that person who’s sitting in the bleacher way out in the middle of nowhere. [00:21:44] Right. The person who’s two rows from the roof and center field. Is coming two hours, early stage. They’re getting more money out of that person’s wallet now as well. Right. It’s pretty incredible when you say everything’s on the table. I love that. ’cause that’s what these venture capital people are doing. [00:22:00] I wanna ask you about some things though. Where and and are these a bridge too far? Like let’s say you’ve done a good job of accumulating money. You have a bunch of money that’s in stocks. What about using your investments to bring in a little more money? And I’m not talking about doing something risky with your money, like changing up your investment stream, but what do you think about some of these strategies going, you know what? [00:22:24] I got these shares of stocks sitting here. Why wouldn’t I write some covered calls against these stocks to bring in some extra income? Do you like that or not like that? [00:22:34] OG: Well, anytime that you are paid for limiting some sort of. Portion of your investment portfolio. There’s a reason for that. If you’re selling calls against your stock, which basically is saying, I’m gonna receive income today in exchange for the promise to sell the stock in the future at a certain price. [00:22:51] So your stock is at a hundred dollars a share, and you say, you know what, if it gets to one 10 by January, I, I will happily sell it to you at one 10 [00:23:00] Joe: because I made 10% between now and January. [00:23:02] OG: Because, yeah, ’cause it went up 10 and you’re gonna give me a dollar a share today for that promise. So ladi da, I’ll take it. [00:23:09] You know, the the reality is, is that the, the finance bros are pretty smart, and I mean, finance bros. In terms of like algorithms and all that sort of stuff, it’s priced appropriately. There’s some likelihood that it does go above that one 10 number. And so if it goes to one 12 or one 15 or one 20, you’re selling out at one 10, right? [00:23:28] In October, looking at a stock at a hundred going, I’ll sell it at one 10, sounds like a really good deal until you see that it’s at one 30 in January and you’re like son of a biscuit. So you’re always gonna limit your upside, and on occasion that will bite you pretty hard. So there’s a risk with that. It doesn’t make it bad, but there’s a risk with it. [00:23:47] One of the things I thought you might say about this is a lot of brokerage companies, if you own individual stock, will allow you to sell the stock back to them so that they can use it. For other purposes like margin or short covering or whatever the case may be. [00:24:02] Joe: I have a family member who kind of rents out his shares of his stock. [00:24:05] Yeah. To Fidelity. [00:24:07] OG: Yeah. It’s basically the securities lending program at your institution, whatever, whatever they call it. At Schwab, they call it securities lending. Basically you’re saying, Hey, I’ve got 500 shares of Tesla and I know that on occasion people are gonna wanna borrow those or do whatever. [00:24:22] Mine are available to be lent out and then you get paid for that. You know, paid, paid delay. You don’t lose the ownership of it. You can still trade it whenever you want, all that sort of stuff, but you, uh, you have the opportunity to use it for lending purposes if you’ve got a security that that actually matters. [00:24:36] It sounds like you [00:24:36] Joe: like that [00:24:37] OG: better if you have the capital. Well, there’s no risk for that like that. You can just say, I changed my mind selling it tomorrow, and that’s no longer your problem. I think a lot of times people don’t recognize from an income standpoint that their portfolio is producing income. [00:24:52] One of my favorite things to do. I know, I know a lot of people just have the dividends. You know, if you’ve got an ETF right? You, you be paid dividends. Maybe every quarter you have a uh, well, they don’t really have capital gains, but if you have mutual funding at capital gains, you know, maybe once a year, and a lot of times that is set to auto reinvest, right? [00:25:10] You just auto reinvest my dividends. If you’ve got a reasonably decent ETF portfolio that might be 10 or 15 or $20,000 a year of dividends, that’s cash coming into your portfolio. And for some people it makes sense to reinvest that Sometimes it makes sense to spend that money or allocate it for a special purpose. [00:25:29] We were talking to a client a couple of weeks ago who said, you know, we were thinking about having to purchase a car in the future. How are we gonna do this when this comes up? Are we gonna borrow the money? Are we gonna, how long away is the car purchases? Like, well, probably two years, but we wanna start thinking about it right now. [00:25:44] It’s like, well, we’ll just leave the dividends from your portfolio in cash for the next two years. Ba a boom, ba a bang. There’s 40 grand. How much is the car you’re gonna buy? Oh yeah, about 40 grand. All right. There. There we’ve got it. So that money is making money. And probably for most people it makes sense just to auto reinvest it and, and, and leave it alone. [00:26:02] But remember that as your money continues to make money, you have to make decisions about that. And sometimes the decision is, I’m gonna consume some of this money that my money’s making. Your favorite analogy, Joe, is say, your money’s bringing its lunch pail to work too. And there’s a point in time where your money makes as much money as you do, and just like you allocate your spending to different goals and savings and debt pay down, and so on and so forth. [00:26:24] If your money is bringing in a, if you’ve got another job that’s making another 80,000, you know, it’s like you would do the same thing, right? You would say, well, some of this money goes to pay taxes and some of this money goes to pay off my debt. And some of this money goes to savings, and some of this money goes to having fun. [00:26:38] You should do the same thing with your money. [00:26:40] Joe: Think about how much easier, everything you just said, oh gee, makes your life all this flexibility. And I wanna go back to a week ago when we took the question from Michael. Michael was in his early twenties, said he’s already Coast Fi. Right. Oh man. You were like, pump the, you were like pump the brakes. [00:26:56] Right. You gave him a little bit of hell. In [00:26:58] Doug: the nice way. In the nicest way. [00:26:59] OG: In the nicest way. I said, pump the brakes. [00:27:01] Joe: Yes. In the very, in a, [00:27:03] Doug: in a [00:27:03] OG: heart. In very OG esque. [00:27:05] Joe: Put your arms around him. Yes. Just gave him a little, just pulled his ear a little bit. He rascal you. Yeah. You. Chucklehead. She could do better. [00:27:15] No, [00:27:16] OG: it was like that. Might not have had my coffee yet. [00:27:18] Joe: Something. But this is, I think, kind of the point you were making, og. I mean, think about all these things that the flexibility buys you. Yeah. Oh, you wanna buy a new car, use your portfolio. If you’re coast by, you can’t do that ’cause you’re coming in on fumes. [00:27:31] You have deliberately decided, I’m gonna stop and I’m going to come in on fumes. I’m gonna enjoy today, which is nice, but I don’t give myself any flexibility for later. You’ve got this portfolio, your portfolio can make money with zero risk. ’cause you just loan the money out to Fidelity or Schwab or whoever. [00:27:47] It’s zero risk lending. Number two, I mean, fidelity goes under, Schwab, goes under. Maybe there’s a risk, but I still don’t think so. Number two is you want that new car? Oh, well let’s have your portfolio produce a car we’ll have, we’ll have your portfolio make the money so that you don’t have to. Yeah, when you do the Cofi thing, you’re not there. [00:28:05] I wanna pivot though, before we get off this topic. Because, uh, Draymond Green, the basketball player has a podcast [00:28:13] OG: attitude problem. Oh, well, [00:28:16] Joe: he is, uh, friends with Mark Cuban. He had Mark Cuban, speaking of Dallas Sports og. He had Mark Cuban on his podcast, and he was asking Mark Cuban why at the beginning of 2024, Cuban sold a huge part of his company. [00:28:32] He’s like, [00:28:32] OG: did you see how much money I got? I’m sure there’s a more graceful answer than that, but dude, I bought it for 200 million and sold it for 6 billion. Like, [00:28:42] Doug: what the heck? Of course I sold. Yeah. I don’t think it was that much more graceful than that. Coming from Mark Cuban. [00:28:46] Joe: Well, here’s what Mark Cuban said to Draymond Green, and I found this, uh, very interesting, this answer. [00:28:53] bit: Can you share a little bit more or clarify a little bit more of that for me or for the, for our audience? [00:29:03] Went and put together the group. It was all private funding and they built a place. That’s amazing. And that’s where they make more of their money. I mean, I don’t know all the numbers, but that’s what I would bet. Right. Mm-Hmm. And look how much they spent to get there. Yes. I. You know, I did this ’cause I love basketball. [00:29:19] I didn’t do this to try to make as much money as I could. You know, when we would do stuff, it wasn’t like, okay, I gotta hit this budget and it’d be like, okay, whatever. And that it was good sometimes and it got me in trouble sometimes, right? Because I wasn’t paying attention to that side. But now with the new CBA and the way media’s changing. [00:29:38] I know technology and media, cold man, I grew up with that. I know that stuff in and out. I couldn’t build a chase center if I wanted to. My new partners, the Patrick Dumont and s, that’s what they live for, man. The San, he runs the Sands Corp. And you know, they’re the biggest casino people around the world and they build arenas. [00:29:55] This is what they live for, right? And so. Like on Shark Tank, I, I always say I’d rather have 25% of a watermelon than a hundred percent of a grape. Right? Yes. Down to right. I just, I’m not good at asking people for money. Let’s go put together this thing. You know? I love the game. I love being part of it. I love the energy. [00:30:13] I hate losing. Right. And I hate the pain of it all, but I know what I’m good at and I know what I suck at. And I wasn’t gonna try to lie to myself and do something I couldn’t do. [00:30:22] Joe: I think that’s the other side of this argument, og. Yeah. If it’s in your backyard. You’re already good at it. My friend Tim, that I was talking about earlier. [00:30:30] This guy already knows a lot about drop shipping, gets involved in it, makes probably, in my estimation, 66 bucks four days a week doing next to nothing. He knows that he’s comfortable with it, but if Tim went and did something ’cause he thought it was a quote, good opportunity. How many people start restaurants every year that know nothing about anything but cooking good food? [00:30:49] OG: I have a great example of this personally. You know, one of my good friends is a real estate guy. Everybody knows that we had a rental property in Michigan. We sold it like literally the perfect time ever. So somehow got lucky there, but had a bunch of extra money. And unless you know what’s gonna happen, you probably shouldn’t tell your real estate bro, that you got a bunch of money sitting in your bank because, you know, they, they do magically manifest opportunities. [00:31:14] Find a way. Hold on a second. I can’t believe you have money right now. Right now. Perfect timing. There’s this thing, but he did have an opportunity to. Flip a house, and Nick, your son, knows a lot about that. He cut his teeth on probably a pretty decent trail of tears trying to learn about what’s good and not good and organizing a team and all that sort of stuff. [00:31:34] And I didn’t have the capacity for that. You know, I knew that there’s money to be made there, but it’s not for me. I’m not the one who knows how to do any of this stuff, and I was happy to be the money. And it worked out and we made some cash doing it. Probably not as good as what we thought it might be. [00:31:50] ’cause you know, like all those projects they end up, you know, running it into other issues along the way. Surprise. Yeah. I know for a fact if I would’ve done that, and the reason I know for a fact I would’ve screwed this up is because I tried it already. I tried it on a really small scale with one of the rental properties that I had. [00:32:05] And I knew that I couldn’t manage that group from a thousand miles away. I knew that I had no boots on the ground to like show up on Tuesday and go, Hey, well hold on. It’s, it’s two 30 in the afternoon. Where is everybody? And this place ended up being empty. And by partnering with somebody who knew what the heck they were doing, he said, I mean, it was a big ask, right? [00:32:25] He was like. Trust me, I got it, bro. Like this is what I do. You know? And you’re like, okay, here’s a bunch of money. I think it’ll be fine. And I would do deals with him all day long if he asked. Because like Mark was saying, he has the expertise in connections and the Yeah. You know, all that stuff to make all that happen. [00:32:44] We had a client a couple of weeks ago who was asking about a, an adjacent business opportunity. Met a guy who does a similar business and said, Hey, I think we could go together on this somehow and into a new market because you’ve got some contacts and I’ve got this product that needs to go into this other market and maybe we should work something out. [00:33:02] And he asked if it was a good idea and I said, well, I mean, it sounds like it’s right up your alley. This is what you do, right? I mean, you have the contacts and he’s got the product that’s adjacent to the product that you have. It sounds like a pretty. I mean, there’s the numbers. You gotta work through that part of it. [00:33:15] But it sounds like on the, at least on the broad brush stroke, it sounds like a good idea. I would never spend a bunch of time and energy. It’s certainly not any money. Trying to figure out something that I don’t know how to do as [00:33:28] Joe: a side [00:33:28] OG: hustle. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I would never spend money doing that. No. [00:33:33] I maybe would spend time, I would maybe spend energy doing it, like to learn it, but I would do it under like an internship program, [00:33:40] Joe: like a bootstrap kind of deal. I’m gonna do it my spare time. I’m gonna mess around a little bit with it. I’m gonna learn, [00:33:45] OG: no, I’m saying I would, I would want to do like a crash course with Nick. [00:33:48] Like if, if I was gonna do a real estate deal, I would call Nick and go, all right, dude. I got a hundred grand. You know, I know you’ve done this 27 times. Can I pay you to teach me how to do this your way? Can we be partners on this deal and you can tell me how to evaluate? Or Paula, right? Paula would be a great resource to say like, how do I, I don’t even know what to think about here. [00:34:11] But to show up at this job site and be like, okay, let’s go. Let’s get it. You know? What the hell do I know? You know, I don’t have any brand cash. I don’t have any ability to, you know, I don’t even know what I’m talking about. I bought some two by fours. Exactly. Got my hammer. But if you wanna talk about money, I’m your guy. [00:34:28] That is what I do. I think that there’s a lot of opportunity in your network, you know, whether it’s partnership with other people, and kind of back to what you were talking about before here, it’s like. If you think about everything counting, whether it’s from an expense standpoint or an income standpoint, and everything’s on the table, and think about your network, there’s a chance that there’s an opportunity there for you to grow some skills or leverage a relationship, not in a bad way, but have some sort of opportunity to increase your lifestyle, increase your income, whatever. [00:35:00] Just based on that network. [00:35:01] Doug: Yeah. Joe, when we were talking about charitable giving a couple episodes ago and you talked about how every time you give you find that you get more back in return, it just dawned on me that that same principle applies to what you guys were just talking about, where usually what prevents people from doing that when they wanna get into the real estate game and, and investment properties and that sort of thing, is either greed or hubris. [00:35:25] If I bring somebody else into this, that means I’m giving some of my profit away to that other person who maybe knows something about it more than I do, or just their own pride of I can, I’m smart and I can figure this out. Mm-Hmm. But I think you’re forgetting about the notion that you could make two and a half times more because you’re bringing that expert in, in that area that you are not. [00:35:45] So just focus on what you do best. [00:35:47] Joe: That line of his 25% of a watermelon’s better than a hundred percent of a grape. Yeah. Yeah, it was just brilliant. Yeah. Great. Great point. Doug. Yeah, I love that. I think to both your points, I mean, we forget about these opportunities to partner with people and it’s fun too at the same time. [00:36:04] Like you’re learning, you’re learning from the best, you’re looking for people, you know, and it’s, and it’s a good time. [00:36:08] Doug: Do you think if we brought OG in on a financial deal? ’cause he was the smart money guy, you think you and I’d be like, God, it’s fun working with him. You think we’d say that? [00:36:17] Joe: Well then again, maybe it’s time to move on. [00:36:19] Thanks. [00:36:20] OG: Stand up fellow. That guy is so easy to talk [00:36:22] Joe: to. Let’s [00:36:22] Doug: have another meeting with him. It’s [00:36:24] Joe: just so much fun. See if he could beat us up better than he did last time. How come I feel less confident? [00:36:33] OG: That’s not true. [00:36:36] Joe: Coming up next we have our TikTok minute, we have, uh, this woman who is trying to do some math. [00:36:45] And let’s put it this way, OG and Doug, the math ain’t mathen. And after that, we’re going to help out a stacker in need. But before all that, of course, we. Put a nice cherry on the top of this podcast with Doug’s trivia question, Doug, what are we looking at on this fine Wednesday? [00:37:06] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and man, Joe’s mom is on a rampage today. I mean, she’s up there screaming her head off ’cause she just injured herself measuring radio frequencies. It’s saying it still hurts. Who knows how to help her? Somebody. Oh [00:37:22] Joe: my God. Hold on, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. It still hurts. [00:37:29] So I’m glad you [00:37:32] Doug: caught that. I’m glad you caught that. Another woman who lost her head today is Marie Antoinette. Oh God, really? It was too, too soon on that one. Maybe. Couple hundred years. Well, it’s an important day in history, and that’s what we talk about here in my trivia segment, isn’t it? So I thought today we’d share some related trivia about Cutco knives. [00:37:58] See how I just link it all together? Oh no. It’s a level intelligence. Cutco Cutco isn’t just a bunch of college kids out selling door to door. They’re a family company from New York, which offers what they call a forever guarantee, which also includes free. Well free What? I’ll be back right after I bring Joe’s mom, a donut, a Hertz donut. [00:38:22] Ho ho. [00:38:36] Hey there, stackers. I’m Paris’s number one fan and former door to door knife salesman. That part’s true. Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Today we’re marking the anniversary of Marie Antoinette’s Last Bad Day. By sharing some trivia about America’s number one knife company. Cutco, no. Is this the best? No. Cutco offers a guarantee that includes free What? [00:39:04] Well, of course, if you’re sharp, you’ll know that it’s a lifetime of free sharpening. Oh, no matter how you slice it. That was some good trivia right there. So good. What you thought it was a little too edgy. Maybe the whole Maria Antoinette. Oh, edgy. Maybe that cut a little bit too deep. Cuts like a knife, but it feels so right or wrong. [00:39:30] I could go all day. You’re gonna have to stop me. [00:39:33] Joe: Oh, thank you for the what? Why am I saying thank you for that? I have no idea why I’m thanking you for that. Let’s do a pallet cleanser. We call it the TikTok minute. This is the part of the show where we shine the light away from Marie Antoinette’s last bad day. [00:39:48] And instead on, well, in this case, a woman who isn’t having as good a day as she thought, oh gee, do you think uh, this woman’s having a bad day or a really, really bad day? [00:39:58] OG: Oof. Uh, if it’s on TikTok, she’s having a really, really bad day. [00:40:02] Joe: Well, let’s find out this woman went on, uh, well, uh, she needed some quarters. [00:40:07] So let’s hear what happened. [00:40:10] TikTok: I’m, I’m an idiot and here’s why. My laundry machine takes quarters naturally. I’m like, where does one just get quarters? So I’m like, okay, I’m gonna go on Amazon and buy quarters. You can buy like rolls of quarters on Amazon. I’m like. Perfect. I’ll do that. And I was like, 72 rolls for $10. [00:40:34] That the math doesn’t equal a, that’s a score. Like I’m getting 1772 rolls of quarter sleeves and quarters in them for $10. I’m like, okay, stupid. Amazon’s losing money. Get the package empty. It’s just 72 plain quarter roll sleeves with no quarters in them. I don’t really know what I was thinking. Nothing. [00:41:05] Doug: Clearly thinking nothing not is what you were thinking. God, I weep for our future. [00:41:12] Joe: I thought I found a great deal. [00:41:14] Doug: 72 rolls. A quarters for 10 bucks. Chach, she’s either the best straight man comedian out there. Frighteningly stupid. Where does one get quarters? Doug, Amazon. Where could I go? Somebody would actually though back to the, like near the opening of the show where you talk about how nobody’s spending cash anymore. [00:41:38] It wouldn’t surprise me if you went to some, you know, any convenience store and said, can I get change for this? They’d be like, sorry man, I don’t have any. [00:41:45] Joe: Yeah, yeah. No change. We take credit [00:41:46] Doug: cards only. [00:41:47] Joe: Yeah, incredible. Thanks to Katie for sending that in. Katie, that was, that was brilliant. Was it Katie on the video? [00:41:55] That was not Katie on, I don’t think. I don’t think if Katie would’ve made that mistake, she would’ve sent that in and going, Hey, look at me. No, probably, probably not. Our last segment of the show is where we help a stacker in need. This is always so fun. We call it Better. Call Saul. See hi and og. If you’ve got a question for og, where he lovingly tells you how you could do maybe slightly better with your money, head to stacky Benjamins dot com slash. [00:42:25] Do you need a money hug? Call OG voicemail. Do you need a Hertz donut today? We are going to. Answer a question presented by Robert. Hey Robert. What’s happening? [00:42:39] caller: Hey, Joe, og, Doug, Gertrude. Anybody else that’s hanging around? Hey, I have a Roth conversion question. Do it. I won’t tell you exactly how much I have in retirement funds, but let’s assume that the first number is between two and four and as followed by six zeros. [00:42:53] Also assume that is roughly split 75. I was doing some estimates on what my RMDs might look like at 75, which is 13 years from now, and they’re pretty high. I’ve heard the suggestion to work with a CPA to figure out taxes and such on Roth conversions, but it seems pretty straightforward. Our state, Washington state has no income taxes, so I’m just looking at additional federal taxes. [00:43:15] It’s pretty simple to see where we land on the marginal tax brackets. Thus figuring the additional tax, uh, is pretty simple. I even simulated this on last year’s tax return and the tax software and I came within about $300 of each other on a hundred K conversion. I believe that pretty much verifies that it’s really not that complicated, at least in our situation. [00:43:35] Am I missing something on what the CPA could provide help with? My rough estimate at the moment for this year is I could convert nearly 50 K to stay under the 32 marginal tax bracket. But I don’t think I wanna burn that much cash for taxes. So I was thinking more like to my current plan to do this in the fourth quarter of this year, then pay the estimated taxes on the outta cash on hand before January 15th, 2025. [00:43:59] We’re married, filing jointly, and I haven’t worked that much a year this year and have less income, which is why I even started this. [00:44:10] Joe: Robert og before we answer his question, whether he is missing something or not, let’s do this For all of our new stackers, he’s trying to convert his traditional IRAs. Over to Roth IRAs [00:44:23] OG: and apparently doesn’t need any help doing it, so well, well, why is [00:44:26] Joe: he number one? Why is somebody doing that? Why would somebody do that first? [00:44:30] And kind of what’s the strategy here [00:44:32] OG: when you have money that’s pre-tax, you haven’t paid taxes on that yet, right? So any of the dollars that you’ve saved and accumulated, you’ve. You know, has grown, it’s done its thing, and you have this bucket of money that is, has never been taxed on it yet, and it’s gonna be taxed at some point in time in the future, whether it’s through your distributions when you need it to live on, or mandatory distributions that the IRS says you have to do. [00:44:57] Starting right now, it’s at 73, but it’s increasing to 75 over the next decade. And, uh, starting at that time, the IRS says, you’ve deferred the taxes on this long enough. You need to take some money out. What Robert’s saying here is, I would like to elect to pay taxes today instead of potentially down the line, because I think the down the line number is gonna be more. [00:45:17] And so the strategy is trying to ascertain what you think the tax rates are gonna look like. And in Robert’s case, 13 years away and beyond, to decide whether or not paying taxes at today’s rate is a more advantageous than paying taxes at an unknown rate. 13 plus years away with a dollar amount that he’s estimating. [00:45:36] So if you, if, if he says, Hey, I’ve got $2 million in my 401k, I don’t think I need this money, it’s gonna grow for the next 13 years, so it’s gonna double that 2 million turns to four and now the IRS is gonna say, now we need you to take some money out. You know, that plus all his other income, I guess he’s estimating that that’s gonna be a pretty high tax bill. [00:45:56] Therefore let’s try to get that number as low as possible. Between now and 75 so that the mandatory distribution is not as high. That’s really kind of the whole, the whole full circle here. The problem with Roth conversions, of course, is that you have to know two things, one of which is completely unknowable, which is what are the tax rates gonna be in Robert’s case in 2037 or 2038, or 2042 or 2067, or who freaking knows, right? [00:46:28] That’s completely unknowable. We also have to be able to kind of guesstimate what sort of distributions he might need between now and then for, uh, living expenses and have an idea of what that’s gonna really drive his, uh, account balance to over the next 13 years. Sounds like maybe he’s financially independent now and retired or about to be. [00:46:48] So all of that kind of goes into that decision of what are we doing to, to do conversions today? 32% seems like a pretty high number to pay voluntarily right now. I know that’s certainly not the highest tax bracket. The highest right now is 37. There’s some proposals that makes that number higher, which is why Roth conversion ideas are popping up this time of year because there’s a national decision that’s about to happen in November and that maybe changes some tax rates potentially, but also just remember that this is three of those national decisions away for Robert. [00:47:25] There’s this one, there’s the one in 2028, there’s the one in 2032, and then there’s the one in 2036 again. You know what I mean? So like, yeah. There’s a lot of people who are gonna cycle through these buildings in Washington between now and when, you know, when Robert has to take this money. So the hard part with doing Roth conversions right now is, or any time for that matter, is, is having this unknowable thing, the math around how to figure this out. [00:47:51] There’s a lot of secondary effects that I would want to be aware of where I him around my decision making. You know, with this conversion, for example, how does it affect potentially any government benefits, whether it’s social security or Medicare premiums? That would be a pretty big thing to know. How does it affect any other sort of downstream tax effects in terms of. [00:48:17] Additional tax bills that are due, you know, after you get a certain amount of income, then you have to pay a little bit higher tax rate on all of your income, you know, not just the 32% bracket, but then there’s also additional, uh, net investment tax bills, you know, so I would be aware of that as well to kind figure that out. [00:48:37] So you’re not [00:48:37] Joe: talking about the act this year, you’re talking about what are the dominoes that are coming? Because he does this or because he doesn’t do it. [00:48:48] OG: Yeah, I mean, he said he is 13 years away. I guess that makes him 62. So he’s not, he doesn’t have any, probably any Medicare costs today and probably not any social security benefits today. [00:49:01] I. So that doesn’t affect him today, but it will at 65. And at 65 for Medicare, for example, it’s a two year look back. So it’s whatever you did in the, in the, in the two years prior to your 65th birthday that [00:49:14] Joe: that matters. So next, so next year could matter then? [00:49:18] OG: It could, yeah. I mean, here’s the thing. This may be like, you know, tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. [00:49:24] Things here. I don’t understand why somebody would. Would have tens of thousands of dollars on the line, you know, in terms of expenses and not want to have a second opinion to the tune of a few hundred bucks or a thousand bucks of a professional to review your thinking. [00:49:44] Doug: Well, he is calling you for the free version of that. [00:49:46] OG: Well, maybe, but, but A CPA who, who does this all the time, is gonna have a better process than just some random internet dude who can hobble through it, you know, ’cause he’s done it, uh, 10,000 times. But there’s a lot of particulars here that you probably want to want to review and, and something as important as, you know, a Roth conversion for a year. [00:50:11] I think warrant’s a quick consult. You don’t wanna hire somebody permanently, I get that, but it’s probably gonna be worth your time at least maybe the first one, right? Like what else is there that I’m not thinking about that? Uh, and when would I wanna show up here and retain counsel? Moving forward? [00:50:28] Might be a good question to ask as well, but the hard part with all of this is not even any of those things, it’s the stuff we don’t know that’s gonna happen in the future. That’s going to produce some potential issues. I don’t know what the tax rates are gonna look like in 2032 or 2047, you know, and trying to make an investment policy decision or a tax policy decision out of that is, is rather difficult. [00:50:56] For my 2 cents, I don’t like 32. That’s a big number. I’d prefer it to be in the twenties, the 24% bracket. We model out for most of our client plans years in which we do Roth conversions to 22. That’s kind of our number and a long range tax plan here. Also could include a strategy around how you’re going to maintain your lifestyle in those years to afford the opportunity to do the conversions. [00:51:26] How do we make our income on paper be nothing so that we can do these big conversions from time to time? That’s what I would really wanna work on. [00:51:33] Joe: Robert, thank you so much for the question. If you’ve got a question for og, head to stacky Benjamins dot com slash voicemail. And you know what, Robert, we’re going to send you over to our store to pick out some of our swag. [00:51:47] We’ve got some pretty sweet swag, very comfortable stuff, and we sure it’s our comfy, and we say thank you for the call by sending some, uh, your way. So Robert. Great call and, uh, expect an email from Gertrude in the very near future. That just about does it. Uh, we’ve got just one more thing. We have a new review of the show, Doug. [00:52:11] Fantastic. This comes from, uh, Suzy ct. Suzy CT 1970. Writes, I’m relatively new to podcast and I’ve tried many different financial shows in the last year or so. But I love Stacking Benjamins. It’s funny, but also optimistic. No one’s shame for past mistakes. And you come away from the episode hopeful and informed. [00:52:34] I think everybody thinks that, uh, Susie, when they, uh, deal with og hopeful Suzy, [00:52:40] Doug: yeah, Susie, and gets the call ask OG section. What the [00:52:44] OG: heck? Hope and optimism. That’s all I do, man. What are you talking about? [00:52:47] Doug: I know, it’s crazy. It’s just fun to, fun to have. Yeah. Every, you gotta have a bad guy, right? In every entertainment show. [00:52:53] You gotta have a bad guy. And, sorry, we met and had a vote and it’s you. [00:52:58] Joe: I think you were optimistic with, uh, Michael last year and Absolutely. And listen, actually, you know what, and I think for Robert this week as well, I think I’m. When there’s that much money on the line, I would definitely, W wouldn’t say, well, my number’s kind of between this and this. [00:53:12] I would show the tax returns to the CPA or the CFP, whatever and go, okay, what do you think? What am I, what am I missing? Same thing, but use real numbers. I love that. Thank you, Susie, for the review. By the way, if you wanna send that to me, I’m cleaning out my office and I wanna give away some of these books because they are Stacking up. [00:53:34] I use books to get ready for future guests and they often send me the book to prep and then I just don’t have room for them all. So Susie, send me an email and I’d love to send you your choice of one of these. Alright, that’s gonna do it for today. Except one thing I hope you’ve been building a to-do list. [00:53:52] It isn’t about what you know, it’s about what you do with the information that we talked about. So from everything from the beginning of our show where we discussed. Our case analysis about pro sports teams to doing that, uh, Roth IRA conversion and everything in between. Hopefully built a to-do list and now it’s time to go get busy on it before Friday show. [00:54:15] But what should you get busy on? Doug always has our, you got our top three Doug. Here’s first of all, just go get [00:54:22] Doug: busy. ’cause that’s just fun. Go get busy with somebody. It’s a whole different show. That’s just fun. But here’s what you can also do first. Take some advice from our headline, looking to make more money. [00:54:34] Think about how your assets produce or don’t produce revenue. Maybe like your favorite sports team. You’ll find money hidden in plain sight. You’ll have everyone saying nice assets. Second, buying stuff on Amazon that seems to be arbitrage and waiting, just like we explained in today’s trivia. It’s always better to measure twice and then cut nice and clean. [00:54:58] See how I brought that full circle? Uh, cut Ninja. Amazing clean. Okay, but the big lesson, don’t ask Joe’s mom what the difference is between ignorance and apathy. She won’t answer. She just keeps saying, don’t know. Don’t care. God. It’s frustrating. [00:55:17] This show is the property of SB podcasts LLC, copyright 2024, and is created by Joe Saul Cihi. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. [00:55:37] Come say hello. Oh yeah. And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don’t take advice from people you don’t know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Mom’s neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:56:54] I had to look up. I’m like, what is a Hertz donut? I didn’t realize it was like a chain of donuts places. Well, Hertz [00:57:00] Joe: donuts, what you do as a kid? What? You never did that to people? I said, do you want a donut? And then you’d hit ’em and you’d go, Hertz Donut. No, never heard of that. Oh my God. We did that all the way through. [00:57:12] Seriously. First grade to fourth grade. That was the thing. [00:57:15] Doug: Mostly just people doing it to you. [00:57:17] Joe: Yes. Between wedgies. You want a wedgie? Mm, yes. Yeah.
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