Get ready for a rapid-fire roundtable packed with personal finance opinions that might challenge your own money playbook. In this episode, Paula Pant (Afford Anything), Jesse Cramer (Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors), and Don McDonald (Talking Real Money) join Joe and OG to declare whether they’re in or out on some of the most polarizing financial strategies.
Whether you’re just getting started or leveling up your financial life, this episode is full of practical wisdom, contrarian views, and a few laughs along the way. Oh—and somewhere in there, we may or may not sneak in a birthday surprise for one of our favorite Stackers. 🎂😉
The one estate planning move nearly everyone overlooks
Why some pros still say “cash only” is best for beginners—and why others strongly disagree
The real trade-offs of delaying homeownership in today’s market
What types of insurance you actually need (and which may just be money drains)
When hiring a CPA is a gamechanger vs. when it’s overkill
How to evaluate target date funds: genius or lazy?
Whether it’s finally time to drop collision insurance on that 15-year-old car
How to choose between Roth and Traditional 401(k) strategies
Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201
Enjoy!
Our Topic: Are you in or out? Our take on many of life’s financial decisions.
During our conversation, you’ll hear us mention:
- Credit cards for beginners
- Cash-only lifestyle
- Delaying home purchases
- House hacking
- Renting vs. buying
- Insurance for valuables
- Comprehensive auto insurance
- Health insurance necessity
- Emergency funds vs. insurance
- Pet insurance
- Hiring a CPA
- Standard deduction
- Tax complexity
- Target date funds
- Delegating investment responsibility
- Roth vs. Traditional 401(k)
- Tax bracket considerations
- Predicting future tax rates
- Estate planning
- Wills before age 30
- Pay-on-death designations
- Financial responsibility in your 20s
- Efficient Frontier investing
- Jeff’s birthday roast
- Great Train Robbery trivia
Our Contributors
A big thanks to our contributors! You can check out more links for our guests below.
Don McDonald
Another thanks to Don McDonald for joining our contributors this week! Hear more from Don on his show, Talking Real Money at Talking Real Money – Investing Talk – Podcast – Apple Podcasts.
Jesse Cramer
Another thanks to Jesse Cramer for joining our contributors this week! Hear more from Jesse on his show, Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors – The Best Interest, on Apple Podcasts.
Learn how you can work with Jesse by visiting The Best Interest – Invest in Knowledge.
Paula Pant
Check out Paula’s site and amazing podcast at AffordAnything.com
Follow Paula on Twitter: @AffordAnything
Doug’s Game Show Trivia
- How many British Pounds were stolen in the Great Train Robbery back in 1963?
Join Us on Monday!
Tune in on Monday when we’ll dive into eight of the most common oopsies people make with their retirement money so YOU reach financial independence faster.
Miss our last show? Check it out here: Master the Art of Negotiation with Paula Pant (SB1718).
Written by: Kevin Bailey
Episode transcript
[00:00:00] Doug: Hey guys. Mail’s here and there’s some for us. Oh man. I love mail. Who’s it from? Wait, wait, wait. It’s not from my probation officer again, is it? Uh, let’s see. It’s from Stacker [00:00:10] Joe: Kelsey. All right. Here’s what Kelsey says. Hey, Joe and og and Doug, of course. Your shows truly helped change my financial game, and I wanted to say thank you for investing so much of yourself into helping people like me. [00:00:25] Joe: Isn’t that nice? Aw, well, well keep, keep going. She probably mentions me again, I’m sure. Well, I don’t know, but she says, the person who introduced me to your show is my dad, and he has a birthday coming up today, August 8th. He’s an avid listener and I’m wondering if there’s any way you’d be able to shout him out on your show. [00:00:43] Joe: My dad’s always been there for me, and when I was really underwater with student loans, credit card debt, and all the other bills that come with living. My dad sat down with me and helped me plan my finances so I could pay off debts one by one and not be so paycheck to paycheck. He would also send me episodes of your show that he knew would help or would be inspiring, like how to structure an emergency fund. [00:01:06] Joe: Again, I appreciate all that you do to help people like me, and if there’s any chance of a small shout out for my dad, I know he’d be over the moon. Thank you again for all your help, Doug. I think we can do maybe slightly better than that. What do you think? Oh, I, I think I see where you’re headed with this, Joe. [00:01:22] Joe: Let’s do it. All right. Round table. You guys ready? Let’s do this, Doug. All [00:01:28] Doug: right. We’re going live. [00:01:30] Paula: Yeah. [00:01:31] Doug: All right. Three, two, one. Wait, who’s, whose birthday is it? Who’s Jeff? Jeff Lund. Jeff Lund. Really? I mean, that guy’s still alive. I’m pretty sure. I saw him shopping for caskets at Costco the other day. He’s only, he’s only 54. [00:01:49] Doug: Huh? Wow. He doesn’t look a day over 90. Alright, then let’s celebrate [00:01:58] Doug: live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters. It’s. The Stacking Benjamin Show. [00:02:14] Doug: I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor Duggan on this special Jeff Lund’s birthday episode of Stacking Benjamins. It’s time to ask our panel, are you in or are you? Out on some of personal finance’s, most controversial topics. We’ll cover insurance to investing and estate planning to home purchases On today’s show, I think I’m out on this idea of Jeff having yet another birthday. [00:02:39] Doug: Seriously, haven’t you had enough already, man? But hey, I guess everyone deserves to nearly burn a house down with a bajillion candles. Just call the fire department before the cake arrives, Jeff. But that’s not all. You know how we truly celebrate Jeff’s birthday? We dive into our year long trivia challenge. [00:03:00] Doug: I know, Jeff, we do that every Friday. Just sit over there in the corner with your funny little hat and pipe down, would ya? And now a guy who remembers 54 like it was three decades ago. Here comes Joe CI [00:03:18] Joe: Doug. This is supposed to be Jeff’s episode. Now make fun of Joe episode. Hey everybody. Welcome to Jeff’s special birthday episode of the Stacky Benjamin Show. [00:03:27] Joe: I am Joe Saul Sea. Hi, and man, do we have. A great, great show for you today. I loved it. We did this earlier, this spring and it was so much fun. We brought this concept back for another episode, and we have three of the perfect people to enjoy the special episode. We call in or out. What’s gonna happen is I’m going to say a phrase, a financial phrase that might be a little controversial, and all our round table has to do is debate whether they’re in or out when it comes to that. [00:03:59] Joe: Particular concept, the first half. We’ll do some basic ones, then we’ll, for all you, uh, really nerdy money people, we’ll dive into those in the second half of today’s show. But let’s welcome our contestants here. First, let’s, uh, go to the woman who is high above Manhattan. She can do traffic in weather in Manhattan on the eighth. [00:04:17] Joe: How is the traffic look in Manhattan today? Paula Pant, [00:04:19] Paula: you know, the. Bus was crowded, the subway was less crowded. [00:04:24] Joe: That’s down with the sound effects. [00:04:27] Paula: I don’t know about the actual highway traffic ’cause I don’t experience that, but I, but the bus was crowded today [00:04:32] Joe: and that’s traffic and weather from the Paula pant and in Rochester, New York. [00:04:36] Joe: We go to the man on the scene there. From personal finance for long-term investors, Jesse Kramer’s here. What’s going on in Rochester, my friend? [00:04:43] Jesse: You know, things are good up here. Uh, it’s very hot. We’ve had a very warm stretch of weather question. Are we working with Jeff with a J today or Jeff with a ge? [00:04:53] Joe: What do you remember? Naper. Gatsy on? Uh. Playing George Washington when he is like, there’s two ways to spell Jeff the regular way in the stupid way. [00:05:03] Doug: We’re playing with the regular Jeff today. The [00:05:05] Joe: regular Jeff Kramer. Yes, but I don’t know Jesse. I heard Jeff is so foo though that he could be the special. [00:05:12] Joe: You know, the g [00:05:13] Jesse: it makes a big difference. I think. You know, I’m, I, I was talking to Don and Paula offline and we were kind of talking about what, what we were gonna bring to the table today. And that was one of the big kind of differentiators. One of the forks in the road that determined which way we take this episode was, uh, which kind of Jeff we were dealing with. [00:05:27] Joe: Jesse Kramer. Jeff with a G. Are you in or are you [00:05:31] Jesse: out? [00:05:34] Joe: And there goes all the Jeff with the Gs and let’s head down to Celebration Florida. ’cause the guy that we celebrate every time he comes back on the show, the man with the golden voice, the guy behind talking real money. Our great friend Don joins us. [00:05:51] Joe: What’s up man? Well, I can’t [00:05:52] Don: tell you. How Jeff I am to be here. I am geed up. I am just Jeff and so Jeff and happy to be back. I just want to Jeff up and down. Dang it. Oh my. Now don’t let me get geed up please. ’cause you know I can get a little jeffy here. Uh, thank you for this opportunity to, uh. You’ll share my inner Jeff. [00:06:15] Joe: It is a big day, Don. Yeah. Hey, speaking of big days, it’s always a big day when a new episode of Talking Real Money comes out. Uh, Uhhuh for the people that haven’t heard your frequent appearances here, uh, what goes on in Talking Real Money, my friend? [00:06:26] Don: Oh my gosh. Today’s episode was really unique. I put up an episode last, uh, when we did this really like a week ago Monday. [00:06:33] Don: I don’t remember when it was. It was a day or two, uh, where literally I did the whole episode with chat, GPT. And, and we talked about jobs and what in the heck you can do as she’s gonna take them all away from you? [00:06:47] Joe: No, no, no. Don what we described on Stacky Benjamins is she’s not gonna take them. The people that understand her are going to take them. [00:06:53] Don: Right. And that’s kinda what we talked about. Yeah. How you can be one of the people who understands her before you’re one of the people who is unemployed because of her, or is, uh. Maybe Jeff. [00:07:04] Joe: Yeah, it’s coming. Well, we got a great topic coming today. A big, big show. We’re gonna cross all the different areas of financial planning on today’s show, so sit back. [00:07:15] Joe: And, uh, relax and ask yourself if you’re in or out on these. We’re gonna get to that in just a second, but first we have a couple sponsors to help us keep on keeping on, and you’re not gonna pay a dime for any of this. Goodness. So we’re gonna hear from them. And then Paula, Jesse, Don, Doug, and I celebrating Jeff’s birthday, figuring out if you are in or out on some of life’s biggest financial conundrums. [00:07:46] Joe: All right guys, let’s start this birthday party. Paula, let’s start with you and let’s start with beginning stackers. You know, Kelsey was talking about how her dad helped her so much, but. Let’s say that you get to help the stackers instead. So let’s say you’re helping a brand new stacker. Mm-hmm. Are you in or out? [00:08:05] Joe: Paula pant on this statement. When you begin life on your own, you should live a cash only lifestyle and stay away from credit cards. Paula, are you in or out? [00:08:17] Paula: I am out. Oh, [00:08:19] Joe: wow. How come? [00:08:20] Paula: I am a big believer in credit cards. You get consumer protections, you get rewards. If you use it functionally as a proxy for a debit card. [00:08:30] Paula: You can, Jesse’s losing it right now. [00:08:33] Joe: Trying hard for people, not with us on YouTube. Gonna say hello to Paul on YouTube. I’m not sure who else is here with us, Paula’s cats in her lap, but we do, we have a friend who is, uh, playing with us today. This [00:08:44] Paula: is Ra. [00:08:46] Joe: Yes, RA is, uh, hugging the camera today. [00:08:49] Paula: All right. [00:08:49] Paula: Yeah. Azure, stand in for me so you, you can. You get consumer protections, right? If you buy something and you later have a dispute with a merchant, you can use a credit card to file a merchant dispute. You get rewards, uh, based on your credit card. You can get airline miles, you can get cash back, and if you use it like a proxy for a debit card and even pay it off every week, couple times a week, even. [00:09:14] Paula: You get all of that without any risk of running it over, running it over. Jesse, [00:09:19] Joe: I remember, I remember in in Susie Orman’s first book, one of my favorite Susie Orman’s lines is you need to learn respect for the dollar. Like you need to just learn about cash. And when Paula says, if you use it like a debit card, but that’s a big if. [00:09:37] Joe: Mm-hmm. I mean, we’re talking about credit, so Jesse. Are you in or out? [00:09:42] Jesse: I’m gonna say out. Now what, just what you just pointed out there, Joe, and, and I think this is in honor of Ara, if you guys remember the movie Anchorman, remember Sex Panther, like Ara a big sex panther, uh, 60% of the time. It works every time. [00:09:58] Jesse: And I think there’s some percentage there where it’s credit card users. It’s like, you know, I don’t know, 80% of credit card users can use a credit card responsibly from day one, and it’s perfectly fine for them to be using credit cards as part of their kind of day-to-day finances. But then there’s that minority. [00:10:13] Jesse: I, I think my gut feel is it is, it’s, it’s a minority of people who, for them. They probably should have never touched a credit card to begin with, and for them, a cash only system from the start would have been better. But my gut instinct is not to throw the baby out with the bath water and to say that it’s okay to start with credit cards kind of in your day-to-day finances from the start. [00:10:33] Jesse: And if you. Trip up a couple times. Hopefully you learn from your mistakes and improve moving forward. [00:10:39] Joe: I don’t know, is that a minority of people? ’cause Don, that’s the question. It took 10 years. [00:10:43] Don: Yeah. Yeah. It took [00:10:44] Joe: me 10 years. So, are you in or out on this one, Don? I’m, I’m more of an Or can I [00:10:48] Don: have the third choice or, oh, no, you gotta be, no, I’m out. [00:10:51] Don: I’m gonna cop out. I’m, I’m a cop out. I, I really, truly believe that it is the majority of young people who have a very difficult time. Responsibly using a credit card. And by the way, it shouldn’t be credit cards plural. If you’re gonna use one, it should just be one. It’s complicated enough and it should be the one that gives you the most bang for no buck, the the most points or whatever you’re getting for it. [00:11:15] Don: But the fact of the matter is, I really truly believe, and this is from having done a financial show now going on 40 years. Most people are going to run that up because it’s just too easy to do it. It feels like play money. So if you can use it responsibly, then I’m in with Paula. But I don’t believe that most folks in their twenties, at least have in the past, been able to effectively use credit as a very powerful and, uh, a, a, a, again, as Paul alluded to, uh, protected tool. [00:11:47] Joe: Well, and, uh, Robin hanging out with us in the comments says, totally agree with Paula. Credit cards aren’t bad if you use them responsibly. So, Jesse, when your young one, I know we’re a little ways away from this, right? But how are you gonna teach them how to use credit cards responsibly? ’cause I think that’s, that’s really what parents, you know, need to do if they’re gonna use credit cards. [00:12:08] Jesse: I think in a recent show, we, we all sat here and talked about that fact that. Credit cards are real money. There’s no sort of magic money. There’s no sort of fake money. There’s no sort of, um, you’re getting access to money that you don’t have to pay back. Like, no, no. It is real money. It is your money and. [00:12:24] Jesse: If your brain can’t quite comprehend that fact you, you need to somehow train yourself to really internalize the idea that it’s real money and you need to pay it off at the end of every month. There’s nothing magical going on there when, when I think of our 1-year-old, and I think to myself five, six years from now when we give her a $10,000 credit limit. [00:12:42] Jesse: That’s gonna be the big lesson that we try to impart on her. Like, Hey, you’re in second grade. You’ve got a lot of things going on. Use this responsibly. You know? So I think you can’t have a cell phone yet, but damn it, you can have a credit card. Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s just [00:12:55] Doug: good parenting, [00:12:56] Jesse: right? Yeah. [00:12:56] Jesse: We’re trying to get on visa’s. Good side here. I just think to myself, just the last thing I’ll say is I was, I was talking to Jeff offline and he was saying that’s when he started his kids 7, 8, 9 years old. So I’m following in Jeff’s footsteps. [00:13:09] Joe: It’s all Jeff. I, I think Jeff is doing it right. I do think. [00:13:13] Joe: Teaching your kids about credit, if you’re gonna give them credit cards. I think it needs to be coupled with some education. Yeah. Because, you know, and my parents, you know, I don’t wanna shave my parents. I go, damn, my parents to gimme the education. No parents give that education. I think, I think it’s, uh, it’s more of, uh, systemic than, uh, than Joe’s mom and dad. [00:13:31] Joe: Let’s do another one. Let’s stick with you, Jesse, starting out again. Let’s go back to the stacker. Starting out. Are you in or out on this statement? You should delay buying a personal residence as long as possible. When you’re just starting out, are you in or are you out? I am [00:13:50] Jesse: in on the way that you phrase that, Joe. [00:13:52] Jesse: I am in because, uh, one of the fundamental questions that I tell people they need to ask themselves, uh, when they’re determining whether to buy a primary residence is you have to feel really confident in the duration of time that you plan on living there. The trap that some people can fall into is like, oh, I, you know, I just finished grad school and I, I just got a job out in Denver and I’ve been here a couple years and I don’t know what else to do, so I’m gonna go buy a house now in suburban Denver. [00:14:18] Jesse: And if you ask them like, oh, so are you gonna be here like potentially for the rest of your life, are you gonna be here for the next 15, 20 years? They’ll be like, I don’t know, I just didn’t wanna rent anymore. And that I think is a problem. You know, if you look at the rent versus buy calculators amongst other math, one of the fundamental, uh, numbers, inputs that goes into that function is how long will you live in the residence. [00:14:38] Jesse: So to that end, for someone to delay as long as possible so that they really feel confident, how long they plan on living there, I think is a smart thing to do. [00:14:46] Joe: It is hard to know how long you’re gonna live in a place. And yet, Don, we hear all the time. Renting is throwing money away. We hear that. So Don, you should delay buying a primary residence as long as possible. [00:14:57] Joe: When you’re first starting out, are you in or out? [00:15:00] Don: I’m with Jesse. I am way in, way in because I think the math is misleading and I also think that there’s a giant lobby. That is pushing the whole idea of home ownership. The, the, the Real Estate lobby, the National Association of Real Tours. Jesse’s right. [00:15:16] Don: The math does not work out as well as it appears to, and it’s an illusion that you make a lot of money on real estate. The only reason people make a lot of money on real estate is because it’s so highly leveraged. What they forget. On the opposite side of that coin is the potential for big losses in a leveraged, in a highly leveraged situation. [00:15:36] Don: Buying a house has to be a lifestyle decision, not a financial one, and for most people just starting out, committing to that kind of long-term cost is probably a mistake when renting, actually in many markets, most markets I would hazard is a better financial scenario. [00:15:55] Joe: Yeah, it’s so interesting just the difference between personal real estate and investment real estate. [00:16:00] Joe: Just like, you know, I chose this house not because it’s a great investment, because it’s, it’s a place I’m gonna be long, long, long term, and I enjoy it. Lifestyle. Yeah. Don’t even think about it as an investment decision. Paula, you should delay buying, uh, a primary residence when you first start out as long as possible. [00:16:16] Joe: Are you in or out? [00:16:17] Paula: I am completely out, but I’ve got a. A caveat, you’re out. You think you should buy one right now? Yes. I say buy one right away. Buy a primary residence right away. Buy a primary residence right away. Ho ho. Make it a house. Hack. Oh, house Hack a primary residence right away. House hacking for people who are not familiar with that term, means that you rent out a portion of the house and by virtue of doing so, you offset part or all of your out-of-pocket expenses. [00:16:46] Paula: In an ideal scenario, this means that you’re buying a duplex, a triplex, a fourplex. You can get a primary residence mortgage for anything that’s four or fewer units, uh, because anything for or fewer units counts as residential. So get a duplex, triplex, fourplex, live in one of the units, rent out the others. [00:17:04] Paula: If you can’t do that, if you’re in an area where, uh, multi-unit properties are not available. You can. Other kind of variations of house hacking include getting a single family home that has an in-law suite, a casita, a guest house, a detached garage that can be used as a separate domicile. I would actually recommend you live in the smaller of the two, live in the less nice portion of the two. [00:17:26] Paula: Rent out the nicer portion of the two. That’ll probably cover all of your out-of-pocket expenses. You know, at least most of it. [00:17:32] Doug: Did you say there are some that come with placentas? What was that? What? Casita. Casita. Casita. I totally could not understand that. Holy cow. Cow. What is [00:17:42] Don: the shower off? You’ll hear better. [00:17:46] Joe: Alright. Wow. Uh, that went a different direction than I thought it was gonna go. Pretty sure that’s [00:17:51] Doug: what she said. I’m pretty sure [00:17:52] Paula: he’s taken the concept of a birthday way too far. Well done. This, this is, [00:17:59] Joe: I’m out, this is actually my moving on. Yes. I’m out. Even Jeff’s out on that one. I, I love all your answers. [00:18:07] Joe: This is what I love about this topic is there are so many different facets to examine and, uh, some carefully we did answers there. Let’s do one more. Paula, let’s stick with you. Are you in or out on this one? Don’t ensure anything. You have the money set aside to cover yourself. [00:18:27] Paula: I’m in. I’m totally in. [00:18:29] Paula: You’re in on that one? Mm-hmm. How come I’m in on that one? Insurance I think is, is best for low probability, high magnitude events. If there is something that would be so treacherous that it would really hamper you. Like health for example. You know, it’s unfortunately even minor sicknesses or injuries could end up being hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars. [00:18:54] Paula: And so your health is something that you want to ensure because of the fact that there is, once you go to a, the hospital, you, it’s pretty much a blank check. Um, by contrast, a piece of jewelry that’s, I dunno, $2,000 or $5,000 even. If you have enough money to buy that, you probably have enough twice over that if you were to lose it. [00:19:17] Paula: If something were to happen, you could cover it out of pocket. [00:19:20] Joe: Interesting. Don, don’t ensure anything. You have the money set aside to cover yourself. You in or out? Yeah, [00:19:26] Don: I’m in, and again, I’m in with a qualifier and the same, basically the same kind of qualifier. You have to ensure your health in this country because of the way the system is structured. [00:19:36] Don: The system is structured in such a way that if you are uninsured. Not only do you pay more, you pay a higher price than the insurance company pays often by a factor of 10 or 20 or even a hundred. Because they’re getting a [00:19:51] Joe: big [00:19:51] Don: discount. They’re getting a big discount. So this is a, the medical insurance system in this country is such a mess, but we can’t fix that here. [00:19:59] Don: And the other qualifier is, unless you must have that insurance, and that applies to a car on which you have a loan, a house on which you have a mortgage, you gotta have insurance on those. But in Florida here, we’ve got a lot of folks who are just going naked on insurance. If their house is paid for, because insurance prices here in some coastal areas run five figures and up a year, [00:20:24] Doug: man, I wanna live in that neighborhood. [00:20:27] Don: It’s on the beach. Beautiful view. [00:20:29] Jesse: Jesse, you enter out. I am. If I’m remembering the, the way you phrase it, I am in, yeah. Okay. And the way I think about it is, yeah, there are some risks in life that currently I have cash on hand to cover, so I don’t need to insure myself against them. But I don’t have separate buckets of cash for each risk, if that makes sense. [00:20:50] Jesse: Some of my cash, it’s kind of like this general risk bucket that, yeah, it might go to the dog if the dog needs emergency surgery because that’s something I don’t have pet insurance. Um, I’m trying to think of something else that I don’t have that’s insured. Nothing’s really coming to mind, but the whole point is rather than having like dog dollars and dollars for this risk over here and dollars for that risk over there, I have one general emergency fund that I consider a cash coverage for things that I don’t have insurance for [00:21:20] Don: and to add, I want to make a point that I think is missed in the insurance business, and I think the insurance industry wants us to miss it. [00:21:27] Don: And that is the fact that when you have insurance. What’s you’re in, in essence doing, except with health insurance, you’re just buying a better rate is you are gambling with the insurance company, you are making a bet with them. They’re making a bet with you, and they have more knowledge when it comes to how likely they are to pay on that bet than you do. [00:21:46] Don: So they’re the house, you’re the gambler. Most of the time you’re gonna lose that bet. [00:21:51] Joe: I agree with everything all of you said, but I’m actually out on this one. During my time in financial planning, what I noticed was, and this has to do with, you know, Nick, be Julie’s appearance here a couple weeks ago when I found people, and this astounded me at first and it doesn’t anymore, when I found people far enough up the wealth ladder that it was. [00:22:13] Joe: I can cover this and just not mess with it, really. I can write a check to an insurance company so I don’t have to f with it, or I take this risk myself, forget it. Write the check. I would much rather write the check than mess with it. So I think that when it comes to like solid dollars and cents, you guys are all right, but when you get to the point that it’s a trivial number, you know, where do I really wanna spend all this time on this thing versus just hand it over to the insurance company? [00:22:40] Joe: I saw people do it and I didn’t blame them. I was like, oh yeah, looking at your life, just write the check. So really, really interesting. You’re [00:22:46] Jesse: saying insurance is just logistically easier for them. They, they would rather carry insurance than. Then deal with the costs when an event happens. A hundred percent. [00:22:55] Jesse: Got [00:22:55] Joe: it, got it. Okay. And not have all these little sinking funds sitting around to remember, okay, I got this for this, I got this for this. I got that. Forget it. I’m just gonna write a check. But you gotta be a ways up the wealth ladder. I think we went from Jesse talking about people starting out. Right. I think if I’m starting out, the rule to learn is what all you guys said. [00:23:13] Joe: I think when you get to the far side of it though, there’s a whole different set of rules that we play by Speaking of that, let me ask you this one, Jesse. How about this? Are you in or out Hiring a CPA is a waste of money for most people [00:23:29] Jesse: out. I’m out. I, I know enough to know that CPAs come with different price tags Here in Rochester, I can tell you that you can get a pretty simple tax return done, buy a CPA for like 250 or 300 bucks all the way up to like a thousand, 1200, 1500 bucks. [00:23:46] Jesse: And if you’re in a really simple tax situation. I mean, the two CPAs aren’t gonna do any different work. It’s just those are the rates they charge. So first off, if you’re someone in a simple tax situation, try to find a pretty cheap CPA at first. What I would say is maybe for a couple years that CPA might know a few things about your deductions, about what’s going on in your life that you aren’t aware of. [00:24:09] Jesse: They might be able to save you some money. That’s what happened with me. My CPA paid for himself pretty quickly. But then if your simple tax situation carries on into the future and you kind of see how they prepare your tax return, you start to understand the puts and the takes, you can always take it back and say, okay, I, I think I understand this now. [00:24:29] Jesse: I understand the credits and the deduction of what’s going on, and I am gonna start doing this myself. I don’t plan on ever taking it back myself because it saves me time. My CPA’s aware of new regulations, you know, oba, this big beautiful bill. B-B-B-B-B, however many bees there are. B-B-B-B-B-B-B, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:24:47] Jesse: The triple BI like having a CPA who pays attention to that stuff more than I have the time to [00:24:52] Joe: Don. You enter out CPAs are a waste of money for most people. [00:24:56] Don: Aha. See it’s the qualifier again. It’s always in the qualifier. A waste of time and money for most people. I’m in. Because we’re talking about most people, the vast majority of people in the United States of America have no opportunity and they never will to take anything more than the standard deduction when they do their taxes. [00:25:18] Don: And there are no other accounting services that they need in their life. None whatsoever, and I know I’m gonna make accountants mad, but one of the industries that is gonna be the most rapidly commoditized in the United States and taken over by AI is accounting. [00:25:34] Joe: Man, I don’t think so. I think that personal touch matters so much, but I also agree with you, Don. [00:25:38] Joe: I’m actually also in on this one. However, I think that when you get to the point that you need one, not having one can screw [00:25:48] Don: you so quickly. Again, the word that qualifier was most people. Yeah. Somebody in a high bracket, somebody with a very complex portfolio, with state issues, all those things. That’s when you start needing an accountant who knows all of the. [00:25:59] Don: Intricacies of the tax law. [00:26:01] Joe: We [00:26:01] Don: got a lot [00:26:02] Joe: of stackers hanging out with us right now. Shane, I love my CPA Eddie. Hiring a CPA is necessary. Paul, I’m a CPA and I have a CPA case ands. I love my CPA. Paula. Hiring a CPA is a waste of money for most people in or out. [00:26:18] Paula: Given that the statement is most people I’m in. [00:26:22] Paula: But I think that the majority of this audience, the majority of people who are listening to Stacking Benjamins should get a CPA. That’s because the profile of people who listen to Stacking Benjamins is not reflective of the majority of people. [00:26:36] Joe: Yeah. I think to your point, Paula, most, most CPAs would tell you that they don’t wanna have their time wasted with people. [00:26:44] Joe: Down to your point, taking the standard deduction. [00:26:46] Paula: Yeah. One of my tenants is, uh, single guy who works at, um, he’s like a, a line cook at like a Buffalo Wild Wings. What would he need a CPA for? [00:26:56] Joe: Yeah. [00:26:56] Paula: You know? [00:26:57] Joe: Yep. Agreed. [00:26:57] Paula: Single dude renter works a restaurant job. Unless there’s something that I don’t know about, I don’t see any reason why he would need a [00:27:05] Joe: CPA. [00:27:06] Joe: We’ve got a healthy discussion going on here on YouTube. If you wanna join us on YouTube, we’re here now. Monday afternoons. We changed the day, so come join us at uh, three 30 Eastern Time. Uh, ish. Do your, do your, Paul and I were talking this morning how we love the word ish. Yeah. Or the, the qualifier ish on Mondays. [00:27:23] Joe: So come join us and say hi. We’re going to, in the second half of this discussion, we’re gonna get really nerdy money nerds. We’re gonna talk about. Target day funds. We’re gonna talk about tax brackets. We’ve got some nerdier questions for our crew here. But at the halfway point, and to celebrate Jeff’s birthday, we are pausing for our trivia competition, which is year long and well, even before we knew it was Jeff’s birthday, we had a score. [00:27:50] Joe: ’cause we’re, well, we’re in the third quarter of the year. Doug, it’s starting to look like it might be a race again. What’s our score between our competitors? [00:27:59] Doug: Well, for a couple of them, yes. We’re getting into a race. Don’t worry. Paul is still basically in Brazil. She’s so far over the horizon. She can’t even see her in the rear view mirror. [00:28:10] Doug: She’s a Brazilian points behind. Yes, she is a Brazilian boy. Bind. Jesse has, uh, started to put his foot down on the accelerator a little bit. He has eight and a half points, which is just one and a half points behind og who has 10? [00:28:24] Joe: Don, you’re playing on behalf of OG Today, which is good news. So Jesse’s gonna totally [00:28:28] Don: catch up [00:28:31] Joe: because you’re playing on behalf of our leader. [00:28:33] Joe: Don, you’re gonna be guessing first, but you also are the leader. So yeah, no pressure, [00:28:38] Don: no pressure other than lots. [00:28:40] Joe: Doug bring it. Everybody needs a trivia question. What are we doing here? [00:28:48] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug, and today we are featuring the great birthday robbery. Seriously, who said that Jeff could steal an entire episode. Wait, see if something on Joe’s mom smell blackmail down here or something. But it turns out Jeff shares his birthday with a ton of other celebs. [00:29:07] Doug: For one, it’s also the birthday of YouTube guitarist, the Edge who can jam birthday songs for Jeff all day long. I’m sure it’s, uh, let’s see here. It’s also, oh, it’s also the actor John Holmes’s birthday. That’s weird. I wonder why they put actor in quotes. I mean, John Holmes, he’s a super talented guy, right? [00:29:28] Doug: So I guess he and Jeff have two things in common. No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, that’s the word in the street. But here’s one since, since Jeff’s pretty much hijacked this show, let’s focus on another robbery. This one was called The Great Train Robbery, and happened on today’s date, way back in 1963. The thieves were probably thinking ahead, stealing a ton of cash, you know, so they could afford all the candles for Jeff’s birthday cake. [00:29:56] Doug: These armed bandits raided a train in Great Britain and stole a bunch of money, I mean, a bunch of money. Oh, how much was it? It was so much that it would nearly fund Jeff’s long-term care for a couple of weeks. I mean, it was, it was a ton of money. How much was it? Okay, now you’re picking up what? I’m laying down. [00:30:20] Doug: It was so much when Jeff heard the number, his dentures nearly fell out again. We just got ’em glued back in after last year’s inflation report. But more than any of that, it was the most money anyone ever stole during a train robbery. So your mission today, panelists, how much money did they steal in British? [00:30:42] Doug: Pounds. I’ll be back right after I finish up this birthday card to Jeff. Hey Paula. Um, asking for a friend, how do you spell ate? [00:30:52] Don: Careful, Paula. Careful our right [00:30:54] Joe: stackers. Don, you’re going first. [00:30:58] Don: Yeah. [00:30:58] Joe: We’ve got Jeff’s, uh, not just Jeff’s birthday, but the great train robbery. How much money in 1963 Pounds. [00:31:06] Don: Pounds did they steal? I don’t, I don’t have to do the conversion to dollars. No conversion today. Uh, duh. When it was 1960s, I mean, I know of it, 63, I, it was like a very famous thing. I’m old, so I know about old things, but I was only nine years old back then, so IDI think there was a movie or something too, right? [00:31:27] Don: Yeah. I think there was, there was a movie and for some reason, you know, I was gonna say like 10 million, but I think since it was 63, it’s gotta be less than that. So I’m gonna go like. 2, 3, 4, 2, 3. I’m gonna go 2 million. I’m gonna go 2 million pounds ’cause it’s probably more in dollars. [00:31:51] Joe: Two. Yes. Million British pounds. [00:31:54] Don: I’m, I’m just guessing. Og. I’m sorry. [00:31:58] Jesse: Jesse, what do you think? I’m gonna go higher. I’m also gonna ignore what Eddie wrote in the chat. ’cause I’m, you know, Eddie’s, Eddie’s got Google out there, but, uh, I, I think Eddie’s just throwing a wild guess. [00:32:10] Don: Oh, what? Wait a minute. Oh, there’s guesses in the chat. Come man, don’t look. [00:32:14] Doug: No, no. Not [00:32:16] Don: cool. Alright. I, I gonna change mine now. No, you’re [00:32:21] Doug: not allowed to Don because I’m looking at the chat. [00:32:24] Jesse: You’re out. My thought was, you know, thinking about just the rate of inflation. It was 60 years ago, 62 years ago, and that like, okay, I’m thinking about how often based on a rule of 72, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it’s probably like money was probably worth like 10 times less than. [00:32:41] Jesse: And so I was thinking to myself, well, if a hundred million dollars, a hundred, $200 million would be a lot today, let me divide that by 10. 10 or $20 million today. So I’m gonna say 15 million. [00:32:54] Joe: $15 million. [00:32:58] Don: I’ll go with pounds. I’ll go with pounds. 50 [00:33:00] Joe: million pounds mean, sorry. [00:33:02] Don: Oh, we have to do the conversion. [00:33:03] Don: Yeah. Hold on. [00:33:04] Joe: Yes. 15 million pounds. Paula, you got 2 million and 15 million. [00:33:10] Paula: Oh, geez. Okay, so my, I could take, I could take the under, I could split the middle, or I could take the over [00:33:19] Don: gambler. [00:33:20] Paula: I know, right? [00:33:21] Don: Oh, you’re like good at this. [00:33:23] Joe: I love how Paula lays out all the obvious. I was gonna say, I can either go under in the middle or above Don. [00:33:29] Joe: Yeah. But she said it in gambling terms. She did. [00:33:33] Paula: I’m tempted to split the middle, but only because there’s been price anchoring. I’m gonna just take the over, I’m gonna take the over 15.0001. [00:33:47] Joe: All right, and we are locked and loaded. Don’s got 2 million. Jesse with 15. Paula with 15.0001. Who’s gonna win it? [00:33:58] Joe: We’ll be right back and find out. Don, you started off with 2 million pounds, Jesse and Paula said Nay. Nay. We think it’s a lot more than that. It is by it is the greatest train Robbie of all time. Don. [00:34:10] Don: Yeah, I know. I think I went low. I know. I’m sorry, Jesse. [00:34:14] Joe: You feeling good at 15 million pounds? [00:34:17] Jesse: Uh, I’m feeling okay. [00:34:18] Jesse: It, this, this one. I, I don’t have a real clue. I don’t have a clue. [00:34:23] Joe: Paula, you’re blue sky at 15.1. Yeah. I still kind of feel like I should have just split the middle. Well, let’s see who’s right, Doug. [00:34:37] Doug: Hey there, stackers. I’m expert Jeff roaster and guy who loves all Jeff stories about train robberies. In the old days, Joe’s mom’s neighbor, Doug. Seriously, the amount the robbers stole during the great train robbery was so much. Jeff nearly spilled his Metamucil again, but the question was how much was it in British pounds? [00:34:59] Doug: Well, the number you were all looking for was 12.41 million less than Paula, 12.4 million less than what Jesse guess. And just 600,000 more than what? Don slash Prince of Darkness ot. Unbelievable. Yes, I know it. Don, you screwed this up royally. Oh, gee. ’cause the correct answer is the equivalent of about $7 million or 2.6 million pounds making. [00:35:27] Doug: He who shall not be named our winner. Oh, man. Done. Wow. [00:35:31] Don: Wow. I am so geed right now. I am just Jeff. Yeah, you [00:35:35] Doug: you kind of geed us all. [00:35:36] Don: Yeah, I guess I did. Except that guy you whose initials you won’t name. Yeah, you’re welcome Ochi. You’re welcome. [00:35:43] Joe: We also forgot to remind the studio audience about fan interference. [00:35:46] Joe: Yeah. And uh, [00:35:47] Don: well that’s okay ’cause I was gonna go with 62 when I. [00:35:53] Don: Yeah, [00:35:53] Joe: Eddie. Not cool man. Eddie pops it right up there. All right, well, we’ve got the second half of this discussion and these are all questions Eddie doesn’t know the answer to, so we’re gonna be, we’re gonna be good here. Let’s start off with this, Don, I don’t think I’ve gone to you first yet, my friend. [00:36:12] Joe: Are you in or out on this statement? Target date funds are for people who don’t wanna take responsibility for their investments. Are you in or are you out? Oh gosh. [00:36:25] Don: You see, before I say in or out, I need to qualify. My favorite response to every financial question ever given to me has always been. It depends. [00:36:36] Don: I couldn’t tell. Could you tell that Doug? Yes. I would say though, generally speaking, I’m with that statement I’m in. Yeah, I’m in. You are in. I’m in. Yeah, because I mean it’s not, you don’t wanna work hard on it then do A TDF. [00:36:51] Joe: There it is. Target date, fund par pant. Target date funds for people who don’t want to take responsibility for their investments. [00:36:58] Paula: Okay. I’m in. But you say that like it’s a bad thing. [00:37:02] Joe: Yeah. [00:37:03] Paula: Like I think you are responsibly delegating responsibility. [00:37:09] Don: Wow. That was a really good answer. [00:37:12] Paula: Oh, I thank you. Thank you, thank you. I like [00:37:14] Don: that responsible. I, I like that. I’m wanna take that and steal it. I [00:37:17] Paula: think target date funds are a responsible way to delegate the responsibility. [00:37:22] Paula: Jesse Target day funds [00:37:23] Joe: are for people who don’t wanna take responsibility for their investments. Are you in or out? [00:37:27] Jesse: I listen to the show a lot, Joe, and I’m pretty sure you don’t have a sponsor who’s like a, a meal prep sponsor, do you? [00:37:34] Joe: I do not, not at this particular time. Yeah, I There’s [00:37:36] Jesse: bunch of one. [00:37:36] Jesse: What’s the, what’s the, I’m not against them. What’s the really popular one called? [00:37:39] Paula: Uh, blue Apron. Blue Color Fresh. Right, right. Hello? [00:37:41] Jesse: Fresh. Yeah. Yeah. HelloFresh. I liked Factor. That was good. HelloFresh, right? That, that’s the way I see. This question is like if you’re responsible enough to be like, okay, I don’t have time to grocery shop. [00:37:52] Jesse: I eat too much junk food, I’m just gonna get HelloFresh or Blue Apron to send me the food that I’m then going to eat. Is that you taking responsibility or is that you saying, I don’t want the responsibility, and just like Paula said, like it’s kind of both. You’re responsible enough to say, I’m gonna outsource this to someone who knows what they’re doing. [00:38:11] Jesse: And that’s the exact same way that I see Target date funds. [00:38:13] Don: Few young whipper snappers give great answers. [00:38:16] Joe: T day frons the HelloFresh of investing. [00:38:18] Jesse: That’s it. That’s it. Exactly right. So, you know, portion out my chicken for me, send me the cream that I need to add to these mashed potatoes. Uh, and then, uh, you know, I’ll eat the asparagus and uh, send it for two. [00:38:32] Jesse: ’cause I gotta make dinner for Jeff as well. And just that’s that. [00:38:36] Doug: Do one of the positions in the target date funds always come like ruptured and leaking over all of the rest of the funds inside the target date fund that you’re a part of. [00:38:46] Don: That’s the cream he was referring to? Yeah. [00:38:50] Joe: Uh, target date funds, I think they’re for nobody, but we will move on. [00:38:55] Joe: Uh, next up, let’s start with Paula. How about this one? If you drive an old car, skip comprehensive auto coverage. It’s not worth it. In or out? [00:39:06] Paula: I’m in. I am in. I was about to give the caveat of, unless you are in such a dire financial position, that that a car accident would be like, oh, you know, interesting. [00:39:19] Paula: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Owner devastating. Yeah. Financially devastating. Mm-hmm. In which case, use it. As you’re saving, like just to get you through. That would probably be my caveat. But otherwise, as long as a car accident wouldn’t be completely financially devastating, then yeah, I’m in [00:39:36] Joe: Don. I think she’s playing your card off. [00:39:38] Joe: It kind of depends. [00:39:39] Don: Well, yeah. And I’m gonna say I’m in, unless you own a rare antique Ferrari, you know, something like that. Mm Uh maybe you should have comp on that, that type bull car. Sure. Because Right. It’s gonna cost a lot of money to fix it. Otherwise, what a waste of money. Just comprehensive. It’s expensive. [00:39:54] Don: And you know, your car already looks like crud. Let it look more jeffy than it was. Look, more Jeffy. [00:40:04] Jesse: Jesse, you in or out? I think I’m in, right? My, my understanding is there’s some arrangements where like you have to have comprehensive on it. Like I think if, if you only with [00:40:13] Don: a loan, correct a [00:40:14] Jesse: loan, uh, if you’re financing it in any way, right? [00:40:17] Jesse: Mm-hmm. If you’re leasing it, you have to have comprehensive on it. But yeah, once you’re past that point. For most people, for most of our audience, I don’t think it’s gonna be worth having comprehensive after that point. [00:40:27] Joe: All right, stick with you, Jesse, for the next one. Are you in or out? You should never contribute to a traditional 401k if your tax bracket’s under 22%, there’s a nerdy one. [00:40:40] Joe: Yeah, [00:40:40] Jesse: that’s a really nerdy one. I’m definitely out on that because. It’s not about, okay, here, here’s the analogy, right? A lot of people are familiar with the 4% rule. They’re familiar with retirement planning in, in, in some way, and they’ll be like, oh, I’m, I’m earning $200,000 a year. How much do I need to save for retirement? [00:40:59] Jesse: Well, that’s only one part of the fraction. Fractions have a top and a bottom enumerator and a denominator. It’s not just about what you earn, it’s also about what you spend. Similarly, when you’re making a determination on whether to contribute to traditional or Roth, it’s not just about what your tax rate is today. [00:41:13] Jesse: It’s also about trying to understand what your tax rate will be in the future. So if your tax rate’s 22% today, but in some future state, you’re like, yeah, I’m in my highest earning years and I’m gonna be a pretty frugal person in retirement and I’m gonna be in the 10 or 12% tax rate, then well then you wanna contribute to a traditional account today, save the 22 cents on dollars that you can ’cause you’re only gonna pay 10 or 12 in the future. [00:41:35] Jesse: So I am. Out. Is that what I said? I’m out. You are out. Yeah. [00:41:40] Joe: You makes it sound like you think it could be [00:41:42] Paula: a good idea. Yeah. Paula, you in or out? I am also out. But my reason is much simpler. If you get a match, if you get a match, put your money into a traditional 401k. What if you can still get the match and get the Roth though? [00:41:56] Paula: Instead of the traditional, I generally bias towards Roths no matter what, regardless of what tax bracket you’re in. So yeah, my overall bias is pro Roth, unless there is a compelling reason otherwise. You know, I just, I have no objection to putting money into a traditional, regardless of your tax bracket. [00:42:12] Paula: Done [00:42:12] Don: in or out? Well, given all the Jeff and qualifiers in there, the never and the 22%, I’m gonna have to say I’m in basically because I hate trying to predict the future to Jesse’s point. I get it if I think I’m gonna be in a lower bracket in the future, lower than 22 today, which is not a really high bracket. [00:42:34] Don: Then yeah, it makes sense. But the, the reality is I don’t know what my bracket’s gonna be in the future, and I’m gonna bet if I was a betting man that it’s not gonna be a lot lower in the future, particularly if I’m a good saver. So I’m gonna default to Roth. So therefore I’m in [00:42:49] Joe: last one. [00:42:51] Don: Last one. Wait, we gotta, Jesse wants to add something. [00:42:54] Jesse: Jesse, the last qualifier that I’ll add there is, I will say this question. If someone is like 60 and in the twilight of their career in asking this question versus if they’re 30. And they’re gonna retire in 30 years and asking that question. That does make a pretty big difference, right? Because I, I dunno about you Don, but if I have to predict tax rates two or four or six years from now, I’m a lot more comfortable doing that than trying to predict tax rates in 20 or 30 or 40 years. [00:43:17] Jesse: So I’ll just, that’s the last thing. [00:43:18] Joe: Are you saying that somebody like Jeff in his fifties is, uh, more likely to die soon? Is that what you’re saying? [00:43:25] Don: That’s what Doug said. [00:43:27] Joe: Not having to, not to play this long. [00:43:28] Doug: Dude’s already got one foot in. [00:43:32] Joe: Alright, last one. If you don’t have a will by age 30, Paula Pant, you’re being reckless. [00:43:40] Joe: Are you in or out? [00:43:42] Paula: I am in with that statement. And I will also admit that I don’t have a will or an estate plan. That, [00:43:46] Joe: that you’re reckless. I am. Right? Yeah, [00:43:48] Paula: exactly. Both statements are accurate. [00:43:51] Joe: Paul, you’re ing this up. [00:43:53] Paula: If I pass all my money goes to Jeff. [00:43:56] Joe: That is very nice. Uh, he’s got the verbal right there. [00:43:59] Joe: You don’t have a will. So this is like a. Yes, you heard it here first, Jeff. Uh, Don, if you don’t have a will by age 30, you’re being reckless. Interrupt. I’m gonna [00:44:08] Don: say out. Out. Oh, out, out, out. The reason I’m saying out is because of the year that you threw in there. 30. Not a lot of 30 year olds have substantive assets. [00:44:18] Don: Things that a complex estates, things that are getting, in fact, a lot of them aren’t. They have nobody, nobody to whom their money is going to be left. So if they have somebody who’s a favorite, then do a POD on your bank account. ’cause that’s probably all you have. Or on your IRA or your 4 0 1, do a POD. Or name a beneficiary. [00:44:36] Don: Beneficiary, yeah. POD. Pay on death. Do you know me? [00:44:40] Joe: Uh, Jesse. [00:44:41] Jesse: POD? [00:44:41] Don: Yeah, [00:44:41] Joe: we got one each way. Are you reckless or not you in or out? [00:44:44] Jesse: I’m out. I’m out. For similar reasons that Don said. When I think of when someone really needs to sit down and put together a will, it’s like, do you have to name guardians for who you’re. [00:44:54] Jesse: Kids, uh, who, who will be the guardians of your kids if, if you were to die? And then, right. Do you want to really spell out very, very clearly where your assets will go because you either have a lot of them, or because you just have, you have a unique set of directions for how you want to give assets upon your death. [00:45:09] Jesse: Short of that, like right, it would be nice maybe if you had a will to make everything easier for your loved ones after you die, rather than just leaning upon the state’s kind of flow that they dictate, like here. Kids first here, or spouse first, kids second, parents third, whatever it may be, but dying with a will at like 28 and just being like, oh, my 40,000 bucks in a bank account and, and 1 4, 1 k. [00:45:32] Jesse: What happens to that? Like, it, it’s kind of easy, quote unquote, easy for that to get figured out, and it’s not irresponsible of you to have that happen to you. [00:45:40] Paula: I, I feel better now. [00:45:42] Joe: Yeah. Holy. You’re not reckless. [00:45:44] Paula: Look at me. I’m not reckless. [00:45:46] Joe: Wow. Unless that’s your mo. You just want to, you know, have this reckless image. [00:45:50] Joe: You know, I’m sure people think of Paula Pant that think reckless all the time. Guys, thanks for playing that game. That is, uh, fun. So fun. I love playing in or out. And I’d like to thank everybody who’s hanging out with us on YouTube. Uh, Tegan is here. Paul, with a lot of great stuff. Yeah, except Eddie. Don’t thank him. [00:46:09] Joe: K Sands. Shane. Mike was here. Jennifer, uh, and a few others. Thank you so much for hanging out heavy. Here with us. Let’s find out what’s going on, where all of you live because when you finish listening to this show, these contributed VARs, we have contributed for reason ’cause they have awesome stuff they’re working on. [00:46:28] Joe: We’ll have our guest of honor go last, Paula, what’s going on at the Afford Anything Podcast? [00:46:33] Paula: On the Afford Anything Podcast. Of course. Every other episode ish. Joe, you, you join me and you and I. Talk through a bunch of guest questions and we have some very good ones. We have an entire Efficient Frontier episode all about how to invest and how to. [00:46:48] Paula: Properly price that risk in your portfolios. And Joey, you’re like, you’re Mr. Efficient Frontier. So you really walk us through that. Um, so that is at the, the Afford Anything podcast. [00:46:58] Joe: Well back away. Harry Markowitz, you won the Nobel Prize, but Paula calls me Mr. Efficient Frontier. So there you go. He can keep the hardware. [00:47:07] Joe: Oh, [00:47:07] Paula: I should also mention Nick Majuli. Nick Majuli joins us on the podcast as well talking about the wealth ladder. [00:47:12] Joe: Yes. And even, you know, if people new to the show and have who, they’re like, wait, didn’t you just, Joe interviewed Nick Majuli. Go listen to Paula’s interview because everyone tells us it’s a good one-two punch. [00:47:22] Joe: We, we interview people in completely different ways. [00:47:25] Paula: Yeah, [00:47:25] Joe: so go listen to more Nick Majuli. Let’s also listen to more Jesse Kramer, what’s happening at the Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors Podcast. Jesse. [00:47:34] Jesse: Well, uh, very humbled and, and proud to report. July was our all time best month on the podcast. [00:47:40] Jesse: And as for new content, uh, just a couple days ago, we released our. Eighth, a MA episode. So that’s a good one. Those are always popular episodes. So, uh, that’s a good one to, to start your, your ply journey, as it were. If you’re looking to add that to your repertoire, [00:47:55] Joe: what can we mistake AMAs as, because Jane hanging out with us. [00:47:59] Joe: I asked about TDFs and Jane, and Jane says, I’m a TDF fan, but I hate NBC’s coverage. She’s talking about the Tour de France. [00:48:09] Don: I love the Jane. I thought maybe they were televising the target date funds. Again, I [00:48:12] Joe: know. I know [00:48:14] Don: Jeff asked for that. [00:48:16] Joe: Don, thanks so much for joining us again. So good to see you, my friend. What’s going on? Uh, talking Real money. [00:48:23] Don: Well, you know, uh, again, it’s so good. I love Stacking with you guys. It’s so much fun. [00:48:28] Don: Uh, talking Real Money is doing what? Talking Real Money has done for like 2000 episodes now. Literally, I just looked and I, I know I don’t have a bunch up. We’re over 1600 listenable episodes right now online. Mm. You’re [00:48:39] Doug: about the same place we are then slew of episodes. Do you have some that are not listenable? [00:48:43] Doug: Like they’re just too hard on the ears? Yeah. No, I wouldn’t listen, I [00:48:45] Don: wouldn’t listen to Fridays. ’cause it was, it was me doing q and a. Nothing. [00:48:49] Doug: 1600 and [00:48:50] Joe: those other four, [00:48:50] Don: Doug and then those other 400. What we do is we talk with our listeners. That’s what we do almost every show. We take questions on our Saturday show, which is uh, on the radio in Seattle, and then turns into a podcast. [00:49:04] Don: We take calls there on Saturdays. We take questions that are sent [email protected]. That are both typed and spoken. And so we have some topics and some interesting stuff and we hate crypto and all that stuff. Uh, and we get in trouble for hating crypto regularly with the crypto crazies, right? But we try to answer those questions that are difficult to get answered without getting misled by somebody. [00:49:28] Don: And I think that’s what we do best on talking real money is try and keep investors and, and, and savers from being steered into bad stuff. [00:49:38] Joe: Well, you know, the thing that I think is disappointing about you and your awesome co-host, Tom, is that you guys don’t have opinions. If you had opinions, it would be a phenomenal show. [00:49:47] Don: I, I’m sorry I’m working on it, but I’m a little old to change. Getting up there with Jeff. Don, I’m gonna Jeff up my act. I’m gonna Jeff it right up. [00:49:57] Joe: Alright. Thank you so much for hanging out with us stackers. Doug always brings us home at the end of our episodes. Doug. What are the three things that need to be on our to-do list today? [00:50:05] Doug: Well, Joe, first, and I can’t believe I’m about to say this, take some advice from Jesse Kramer. It may be okay. Finally, what? Wait, wait, what? What? It may be okay to start off using credit cards in the early part of your financial journey, but only if you were the type of kid who did their homework and practiced piano without being yelled at by your mom and dad. [00:50:29] Doug: Second, don’t forget the wise words of, well, the words of Paula Pan. Use target date funds if you’re looking for a way to responsibly abdicate your responsibilities to a financial bot. But the big lesson, if you throw a birthday party for that dude, Jeff, make sure there’s a defibrillator, a pudding cup, and someone on standby to explain what a podcast is again. [00:50:59] Doug: Thanks to Don McDonald for joining us today. When Don’s not hypnotizing unsuspecting people in the frozen foods aisle with his buttercream voice, you’ll find Don rattling on about money over at Talking Real Money. We’ll also include links in our show notes at Stacking Benjamins dot com. He just sneaks up on people and then they just fall over. [00:51:18] Doug: Still proudly might, might be my favorite [00:51:19] Joe: word too. Prattling p Prattling. [00:51:22] Doug: Thanks to Paula Pan for hanging out with us today. You’ll find her fabulous podcast, afford Anything wherever reprobates are listening to finer podcasts. And thanks also to the Jesse Kramer for joining us. You’ll find the Ply podcast wherever you are listening to us now. [00:51:39] Doug: This show is the property of SB Podcast LLC, copyright 2025 and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You’ll find out about our awesome team at Stacking Benjamins dot com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. [00:52:00] Doug: Come say hello. Oh yeah, and before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerd. Don’t take advice from people you don’t know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I’m Joe’s Moms neighbor, Duggan. We’ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.I.
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